Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.3

[colinr0380]

You'd think Angel At My Table before Sweetie though, wouldn't you?

I certainly hope they upgrade Angel At My Table some time in the future as well, if just for there being more room for that lengthy film on a Blu disc. And all this certainly makes the lack of Bright Star on Blu in the US or UK seem even more shocking. Maybe Criterion could look into licensing it from Sony.

I think Jun-Dai raises an interesting point about the effort of a Blu release. Of course, I don't know anything about encoding for Blu, which I guess is going to be where most of the issues will arise, but from purely a menu point of view it should be pretty easy to slot existing material into the Blu-ray menu template that Criterion is using now (they also only need one animated background as well, compared to many separate menu screens on DVD!)

I do think though that we should consider the two Fuller films as totally new releases, likely needing much more work than something like a porting across of Robinson Crusoe On Mars would. After all the original 1998 DVDs of Shock Corridor and Naked Kiss were non-anamorphic, featureless discs, even without hard of hearing subtitles!

[Tommaso]

They should just drop the DVD releases. It is just stupid because its equal price with Blue.

They still sell about 50% of their product to DVD-only consumers, and their profit margins are considerably higher for their DVD sales. They would literally be slashing their profits by more than half. Doesn't make much business sense.

As MoC seem to have realised, too. Here as there, BFI-style dual format editions would be the best solution.

[Jeff]

How soon does Amazon normally list the "announced as forthcoming" discs for pre-order?

Generally within a week after Criterion announces them.

[eerik]

How soon does Amazon normally list the "announced as forthcoming" discs for pre-order? I remember there was one month (Seven Samurai/Videodrome was it?) when the pre-orders were up before the announcement, and there was discussion her about whether someone was guessing or if it was a leak.

As a non-US buyer I can't buy from Criterion direct (AFAIK), so need Amazon.

March pre-orders were up same day as the announcements I think.

[Sam T.]

Can somebody explain to me the disappointment with which the Sweetie blu announcement seems to have been received in this thread? Maybe I'm misreading people's neutral surprise as something more sour, but a lot of people seem like they really don't like the film much, which I wouldn't have expected.

For my part, I'm kind of a dilettante (having seen maybe 100 or so Criterion titles), so I'll take everybody's word for it that there are films in the collection much more deserving than Sweetie of a blu upgrade, but of the titles I've seen personally Sweetie is probably in my top 25 favorites. It certainly seems as deserving and as seriously minded as Robinson Crusoe on Mars (which I just saw for the first time and which I also thought was quite good).

Do people think Sweetie is bad? Frivolous? Too commercial? Not endowed with visual majesty that merits a blu-ray upgrade? What's up?

[knives]

It just doesn't stand out as something in need of a Blu upgrade. It's such a left field choice in both expectations and in the visual expectations. The reaction for the most part has nothing to do with the quality of the film.

[movielocke]

at the very least, criterion is indicating that unlike the major studios they are not just upgrading the canonical heavy hitters in their catalog. Are they being deliberately more eclectic? Deliberately more whimsical? or Deliberately more random? Are they allowing criterion employees (producers) passion projects for upgrade? thus we get Robinson Cruesoe and Sweetie?

otoh, it could just be a contractual thing, Campion won't agree to work with them on the piano unless her criterion dvds get a blu release where rights issues allow for such releases.

or maybe criterion decided it was sexist that they were only upgrading films directed by males from their back catalog?

[arsonfilms]

While I tend to be relatively lukewarm to Campion's feature efforts, what makes Sweetie worthy of an upgrade are the shorts featured in the supplements. In fact, I'd say that leaving off Sweetie entirely and releasing just a collection of her shorts would have been even more well received. When I was in film school, I don't think I took a single class that didn't screen Peel. There are dozens of releases I'd rather see get upgraded before this, mind you, but I do want to point out that the Criterion release has a value to the public that goes beyond the featured film itself.

[zedz]

Arsonfilms has a good point about the shorts, but I think even such a mild pile-on as this is unwarranted. Sweetie is a good, significant film. Though I probably like Campion's first and third features better, it's clearly the work of a precocious original talent, and it's been hugely influential on the muddy flood of much less accomplished self-consciously quirky indies that followed. It's certainly visually striking enough to warrant an upgrade to BluRay, so I don't think we need to entertain fantasies of Campion holding a gun to somebody's head to account for its release.

[Tom Hagen]

As far as I'm concerned, the minute they announced Robinson Crusoe on Mars to Blu, all bets were off in terms of divining any sort of logic to Criterion's Blu upgrade slate. Short of Border Radio or Hopscotch coming to Blu, nothing would surprise me.

[mfunk9786]

In the case of Robinson Crusoe on Mars, it's been a company favorite since laserdisc, and is a film that visually and audibly benefits from the Blu-ray format.

[domino harvey]

Arsonfilms has a good point about the shorts, but I think even such a mild pile-on as this is unwarranted. Sweetie is a good, significant film. Though I probably like Campion's first and third features better, it's clearly the work of a precocious original talent, and it's been hugely influential on the muddy flood of much less accomplished self-consciously quirky indies that followed. It's certainly visually striking enough to warrant an upgrade to BluRay, so I don't think we need to entertain fantasies of Campion holding a gun to somebody's head to account for its release.

The only reason I would offer conspiracy theories otherwise is that if you're looking at the Campions in the collection, An Angel at My Table is ludicrously more deserving of a Blu in cinematography alone. So, I do suspect it was a favorite of a Criterion producer. Nothing against releasing favorites that don't necessarily benefit from an upgrade (I mean, I'd buy a Kicking and Screaming Blu, though that's hardly a beautiful-looking film), just my guess

[dwk]

The only reason I would offer conspiracy theories otherwise is that if you're looking at the Campions in the collection, An Angel at My Table is ludicrously more deserving of a Blu in cinematography alone. So, I do suspect it was a favorite of a Criterion producer. Nothing against releasing favorites that don't necessarily benefit from an upgrade (I mean, I'd buy a Kicking and Screaming Blu, though that's hardly a beautiful-looking film), just my guess

Or it simply could be that they wanted to release one of Campion's films on Blu-ray and, since it was licensed from New Line, they don't have the Blu-ray rights to An Angel at My Table, so they went with Sweetie.

[justeleblanc]

Does anyone know (or think they know) if the upcoming Hollis Frampton box will include his entire Hapax Legomena?

[SternDiet]

Does anyone know (or think they know) if the upcoming Hollis Frampton box will include his entire Hapax Legomena?

I don't think anyone knows for sure, but rumour had it it was going to be a three disc set, so it seems pretty likely it will include the entire Hapax. If only because many people consider all the parts together somewhat as a film of its own, in that the sum is larger than the parts. So the integrity of the films would be pretty much violated if they left some parts out and I think the people at Criterion are very much aware of this. Or at least I assume they are.

[Gregory]

Still, remember that in by Brakhage 2 they only included parts of major series of Brakhage films that are (IMO) greater than the sum of their parts. (Presumably they had good reasons for doing so). Hapax Legomena in its entirety would require a serious level of commitment from Criterion to release it, and from viewers who decide to immerse themselves in it--a valuable experience that I hope will be possible.

[LongTime FirstTime]

Arsonfilms has a good point about the shorts, but I think even such a mild pile-on as this is unwarranted. Sweetie is a good, significant film. Though I probably like Campion's first and third features better, it's clearly the work of a precocious original talent, and it's been hugely influential on the muddy flood of much less accomplished self-consciously quirky indies that followed. It's certainly visually striking enough to warrant an upgrade to BluRay, so I don't think we need to entertain fantasies of Campion holding a gun to somebody's head to account for its release.

The only reason I would offer conspiracy theories otherwise is that if you're looking at the Campions in the collection, An Angel at My Table is ludicrously more deserving of a Blu in cinematography alone. So, I do suspect it was a favorite of a Criterion producer. Nothing against releasing favorites that don't necessarily benefit from an upgrade (I mean, I'd buy a Kicking and Screaming Blu, though that's hardly a beautiful-looking film), just my guess

Saw Lee Kline speak at a screening of Mystery Train this past summer. He cited An Angel at My Table as his favorite project to have worked on. That's at least on Campion fan there.

[The Elegant Dandy Fop]

Still, remember that in by Brakhage 2 they only included parts of major series of Brakhage films that are (IMO) greater than the sum of their parts. (Presumably they had good reasons for doing so). Hapax Legomena in its entirety would require a serious level of commitment from Criterion to release it, and from viewers who decide to immerse themselves in it--a valuable experience that I hope will be possible.

I always felt that though the films in the Hapax Legomena series are separate parts intended for the whole, I have the exact same opinion that some are better than others (just like the Brakhage) and for the sake of space and exploration of a filmmakers work, all don't need to be represented. And for those interested, the first film in the series, Nostalgia, is available in the American Treasures IV set along with other excellent works by Ken Jacobs, Marie Menken, Jonas Mekas, Shirley Clarke and George Kuchar with the best prints you can find.

Aside from a brief mention by someone that Criterion is releasing some of his films, has there been any other definite clues? It has to be a labor of love project from someone in the company because this just seems like it isn't going to make much money. Aside from that, this is one of my most anticipated titles and hopefully it even gets a Blu-Ray release.

[SternDiet]

Still, remember that in by Brakhage 2 they only included parts of major series of Brakhage films that are (IMO) greater than the sum of their parts. (Presumably they had good reasons for doing so). Hapax Legomena in its entirety would require a serious level of commitment from Criterion to release it, and from viewers who decide to immerse themselves in it--a valuable experience that I hope will be possible.

True, but Brakhage made over 350 films and Frampton doesn't even come close to that, so the reason of space isn't as acute in the case of Frampton as it is with Brakhage. Also, if Hapax Legomena will be included in its entirety it doesn't mean that people have to watch it all at once - there's always the possibility of just watching some parts. But if Criterion wants to do it right, they should at least give people the possibility of seeing it as a whole, but maybe that's just my optimistic side talking. But the complete Hapax is about three and a half hours long if I'm not mistaken, so that would mean one disc, with still two discs left for other works.

Edit: I just realized that three discs probably meant three DVD's and not three blu-rays, in which case my math is a bit on the optimistic side... Oh well, we'll just see.

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

I don't think anyone knows for sure, but rumour had it it was going to be a three disc set, so it seems pretty likely it will include the entire Hapax.

Why not release a set that's just Hapax Legomena and save others for later?

[SternDiet]

I don't think anyone knows for sure, but rumour had it it was going to be a three disc set, so it seems pretty likely it will include the entire Hapax.

Why not release a set that's just Hapax Legomena and save others for later?

Because it's probably doubtful there will be a later. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I really can't see Criterion releasing TWO Frampton sets - one would already be pretty far out there. I don't know what the sales are of the Brakhage collections (especially in comparison with -say- 'Seven Samurai'), but Frampton's visibility is even more limited than Brakhage's.

[Elephant_Gun]

There was some discussion of this quite awhile back on Frameworks. Anyways, I'll just quote a snippet of a post from Fred Camper:

Fortunately, debating it is not necessary, as the current plan is to include all of "Hapax Legomena." I've made the case to Criterion that this is a case where the whole film is a lot greater than its individual parts, and I believe the parts also get new meaning from the whole. Once the set is released, my advice would be to watch the whole of "Hapax" without a break, and see if you don't agree.

Criterion's seriousness about this release is further evidenced by the fact that the staff member who is working on it attended the recent three-day Frampton conference at the University of Chicago, which gathered together scholars working on Frampton with many others, including Michael Snow.

[Cinephrenic]

It would be nice if we can get a Michael Snow set too.

[SpiderBaby]

Bruce Conner too.

[justeleblanc]

We really need a DVD/Blu line dedicated entirely to experimental cinema. I see this company in Austria and I'm too jealous that we don't have one for North American filmmakers.