The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

[cysiam]

Viewed Angel Face last night.

Jean Simmons is the femme fatale and her portrayal of a pretty face with unreadable emotions hiding behind it is perfect. It's like she's missing some part of herself. The courtroom scenes drug the film down a bit for me and took me out of the great mood that had been prevalent throughout, but wow, what an ending. I prefer Laura for my Preminger noir but I was quite impressed with this and it should make my final list.

[Steven H]

Angel Face must be my least favorite Preminger noir, though I can't really put into words why it rubs me the wrong way. I much prefer the sexually charged Fallen Angel, with its ambiguous relationships and classic hash-slinging badgirl Stella (no last name, why bother?), or the coldly urban Laura, with its double homme fatales Price and Webb. Speaking of Laura, what's the verdict on Michael Curtiz's similar The Unsuspected? Like The Scar, The Unsuspected may make my list just for being an jaw-dropping exercise in dark expressionistic style, but there are a few nice performances there to keep things afloat (ah, Claude Rains). It also has the dishonor, along with Mann's The Tall Target, of being an WB Archive victim when it should have been given a full-bodied release to make up for its neglect. On that point, I really hope these WB Archive noirs don't suffer from being unNetflixable and expensive DVDrs for this list.

Also, two elephants in the room I haven't seen brought up much are Gilda and This Gun For Hire. I think they hold up for a top 50 just fine, don't you?

[Yojimbo]

Angel Face must be my least favorite Preminger noir, though I can't really put into words why it rubs me the wrong way. I much prefer the sexually charged Fallen Angel, with its ambiguous relationships and classic hash-slinging badgirl Stella (no last name, why bother?), or the coldly urban Laura, with its double homme fatales Price and Webb. Speaking of Laura, what's the verdict on Michael Curtiz's similar The Unsuspected? Like The Scar, The Unsuspected may make my list just for being an jaw-dropping exercise in dark expressionistic style, but there are a few nice performances there to keep things afloat (ah, Claude Rains).

I'm with you on both Fallen Angel, - my favourite Preminger, and Dana Andrews', noir, - and The Unsuspected, Steven: (ah, Claude Rains), indeed!
Incidentally Rains is perfect in the title role in a gorgeous-looking British colour noir adaptation of Simenon's 'The Man Who Watched Trains Go By'
(featuring an equally gorgeous young Anouk Aimee in an early screen role)

[Lawrence Olivier]

Raw Deal is my favorite -- noir at it's most atmospheric and despairing. If only there was a serviceable DVD available of it.

You're in luck, Roan issued a very fine-looking DVD of RAW DEAL transferred from a nitrate print in 1999 (in a 2-disc set coupled with T-MEN, which looks more worn and beaten), and as of this moment it's available quite reasonably at amazon sellers.

It's definitely the most serviceable edition out there.

[Yojimbo]

I was glad to see that Nightfall was as good as I remembered it, although now I'm reminded that I have the source novel by David Goodis I'm anxious to read it, not least because, as with 'Down There' his source novel for Truffaut's glorious 'Tirez Sure Le Pianiste', its sure to have a considerably darker hue than the film.

The film almost reads like an episode of 'The Fugitive' with an innocent man being doggedly pursued by an unforgiving officer of the law, albeit in this case an insurance claims investigator, an unusually 'heroic' James Gregory.
Its fair to say that Aldo Ray isn't the most commanding screen presence but his soft voice is undoubtedly a major handicap, particularly for such a big man.
For the most part, though, I thought he did quite well, although he had to play second fiddle behind all of his main co-stars.

Brian Keith, for me, was the most impressive; a young Anne Bancroft was appealing, although the 'new-to-me' Rudy Bond almost stole the film as Keith's partner.
(and I look forward to seeing him again in 'The Brothers Rico')
Burnett Guffey's gorgeous visuals, particularly the outdoor ones, reminded me, variously, of 'The Day of the Outlaw'; 'Tirez Sure Le Pianiste', itself, and Tourneur's own 'Out Of The Past'.

All of which helps it make an admirable successor to 'Out Of The Past'

Even if it only makes the bottom half of my list, its a cert.

[Finch]

Wasn't sure where to put this but here goes: can anyone confirm if the Wild Side DVD of The Big Combo is worth buying? I can live with the forced French subs if the image is decent.

[Finch]

You're in luck, Roan issued a very fine-looking DVD of RAW DEAL transferred from a nitrate print in 1999 (in a 2-disc set coupled with T-MEN, which looks more worn and beaten), and as of this moment it's available quite reasonably at amazon sellers. It's definitely the most serviceable edition out there.

Wish, I'd seen this sooner! #-o I'd ordered the French Wild Side DVD of Raw Deal and Sony Music's R1 of The T Men a week ago and both have already shipped. Well, I'm going to order this one as well.

[Murdoch]

Compulsion - This could have been one of the late great noirs, with brilliant performances by Bradford Dillman as a sociopath and Dean Stockwell as a reserved academic who both decide to commit murder in a similar vein to the duo in Hitchcock's Rope. However, despite William Mellor's great use of the letterbox format, the film falls apart during Welles' heavy moralizing scenes in the second half as the skeptic lawyer who defends the two, forcing itself into a commentary on capital punishment when it played so much better during the set-up and investigation of the crime. Stockwell's paranoia over being caught and Dillman's playful banter with the police leading the investigation created a perfect duality of criminal behavior - one struggling with his ill deed, the other reveling in his ability to guide the investigation and discover the ineptness of those trying to catch him. I was really looking forward to Welles, too, and he certainly does his well-known uglying himself up for the part, complete with crow's feet and visible scars, but he occupies a part of the film that feels tacked on unnecessarily and I felt the film would have been better if they had scrapped the courtroom drama and simply extended the investigation part, ending the film with the inevitable arrest of the young murderers.

[domino harvey]

[...]both decide to commit murder in a similar vein to the duo in Hitchcock's Rope

And of course both are based on Leopold and Loeb

[colinr0380]

And don't forget Swoon.

[cysiam]

For anyone in or near Austin, TX, The Paramount is going to be showing a double feature of In a Lonely Place / Sunset Boulevard tomorrow and Wednesday.

[swo17]

In what I believe is a new feature on Criterion's website, they list which films in the collection they consider to be noir.

[Yojimbo]

In what I believe is a new feature on Criterion's website, they list which films in the collection they consider to be noir.

'The Long Good Friday'???? :-k

[Yojimbo]

Just been poring over the list of movies in my 'Dark Crimes' 50 movie-pack set,- I know, I know, - and there's quite a few interesting noirs which I plan to check out for this list, even if the quality makes the blacks 'noirer than noir, and the whites 'blancer than blanc'.
But needs must, and all that, and noirs were essentially meant to be low budget, 'B' features.

I'll definitely be checking out (lead star in brackets)
The Hoodlum (Lawrence Tierney)
Man Who Cheated Himself (Lee J Cobb)
The Scar (Paul Henreid)
Fear In The Night (De Forest Kelley, aka 'Bones' of 'Star Trek' fame)
...-and I've had a quick look at it: he looks remarkably like Robert Young

I also spotted an interesting early Vincent Price noir, 'Shock', on another of these sets, which probably qualifies as 'noir', also

[Yojimbo]

Pushover was another great surprise for me from 'The Columbia Noirs, Vol. Two' set
(I can't recall seeing any other film by director, Quine).
Sure it, and Fred MacMurray's performance, sets one in mind of the superior (admittedly to damn near all noir) 'Double Indemnity', and Kim Novak can't hold a candle to Barbra Stanwyck's devious, amoral, bloodthirsty Phyllis, but Novak is a different kind of fatale to Babs: more passive, or perhaps more subtle?
(and a very assured debut performance)

And it took me a few minutes to recognise Dorothy Malone
(in the early shots of her she reminded me of 'Estelle' from 'Bonnie and Clyde: she was that dowdy looking!)

But however much it might borrow or remind one of other films, - 'Rear Window', anyone, - its a lotta fun, with the tension racked all the way up to '11' when the fates start closing in on the doomed lovers

Oddly enough, perhaps what lingers longest for me is the beautifully shot rain-slicked streets
(John Alton would surely have approved!)

[Steven H]

I watched a couple of the new WB set's discs and found at leat two new absolutely loves. While I was expecting The Phenix City Story to be one of the gems of the set, it left me completely cold (and I'm a big fan of Karlson's Kansas City Confidential), but Dial 1119 was fantastic. I thought The Phenix City Story used unimaginative style to paint everyone involved as either pure saint or pure sinner, with completely unrealistic and uninteresting results (except for a couple of the more violent scenes). While Dial 1119 had not a single forgettable performance and for me a slightly more interesting take on media / spectator frenzy than even Ace in the Hole (1119 seemed to have zero sentimentality in comparison). Marshall Thompson plays a very good nutjob, in Dial 1119 it's like his menacing yet controlled character from Tall Target is going wildly over the edge. The film reminded me of another noir, He Ran All The Way, a certainty for my list, with John Garfield playing a sweaty and easily upset dumb crook that's in way over his head in taking hostages (but it never turns into something as introspective as The Long Night).

On Another double bill, I was expecting to be blown away by Siegel and Cassavettes in Crime in the Streets, but I was bored to tears by the longwinded and awkward "social commentary" mixed with the poorly lit high-school-production set and mediocre visual texture (or absence of life in the visuals at all). I sensed nothing but shallow theatricality in this and I'd go so far as to say it's more of an after-school special than anything else I've seen in the world of noir (there has to be a better way to get the message across "don't beat your kids" without making a boring movie). On the other hand, Armored Car Robbery was just effin great. It never stopped from the get go, seemed obstinately proud of its cliches in a way you can only respect, boasted a team of noir giants and staples (McGraw, Talman, Brodie) all in form, and looked perfect to boot. This felt like a sibling film to Crime Wave in it's method, attitude and pace. I loved it.

Another couple of films I finally saw and loved were The Sniper and Ride The Pink Horse. I don't have anything to add to what's already been said about The Sniper (that ending!) but I will say that Ride The Pink Horse took me totally by surprise. I had actually watched about five or six bad to mediocre noirs in a row before I saw it, and after the whole opening sequence with Montgomery in the hotel. I knew I had finally found a good one. If Walsh's Pursued is a noir transplanted into a Western, Ride the Pink Horse is the western transplanted into a noir, even with a "riding into the sunset" ending. It's criminal that this it isn't out on DVD (at least I don't think it is).

edit: gaints?

[Yojimbo]

I watched a couple of the new WB set's discs and found at leat two new absolutely loves. While I was expecting The Phenix City Story to be one of the gems of the set, it left me completely cold (and I'm a big fan of Karlson's Kansas City Confidential).

On Another double bill, I was expecting to be blown away by Siegel and Cassavettes in Crime in the Streets, but I was bored to tears by the longwinded and awkward "social commentary" mixed with the poorly lit high-school-production set and mediocre visual texture (or absence of life in the visuals at all).

Another couple of films I finally saw and loved were The Sniper and Ride The Pink Horse. I don't have anything to add to what's already been said about The Sniper (that ending!) but I will say that Ride The Pink Horse took me totally by surprise. I had actually watched about five or six bad to mediocre noirs in a row before I saw it, and after the whole opening sequence with Montgomery in the hotel. I knew I had finally found a good one. If Walsh's Pursued is a noir transplanted into a Western, Ride the Pink Horse is the western transplanted into a noir, even with a "riding into the sunset" ending. It's criminal that this it isn't out on DVD (at least I don't think it is).

Pretty much agree with everything you say, Steven, apart from the usually reliable Tomas Gomez' 'caricature' nagged me for too much of 'Horse': I plan to give 'Armored Car Robbery' another look, though when my box-set arrives: perhaps I was constantly seeing Talman's Perry Mason 'Burger' character as I watched it on the only previous occasion.
(likewise in 'The Hitchhiker')

[Steven H]

I really *wanted* to be bothered by the Gomez caricature but he just threw himself into it so much that I ended up forgetting any problems I should have with the portrayal and went along with it (there's more than Gomez to get anthropologically stuck on in the film anyway). At least he was a positive character with some admittedly err "questionable" faults (my people like being poor? yeesh.) He did make me want to go drink some tequila though. Speaking of tequila, maybe have some before giving the brazen Armored Car Robbery another shot (might loosen you up a bit for the ride.) I never watched too much Perry Mason so I'm spared from that Talman connection.

[domino harvey]

(I can't recall seeing any other film by director, Quine).

He's an interesting child-actor-turned-director receiving something of a newfound interest lately thanks to all the Sony vault leaks. His comedies are probably his strong suit-- the brilliant musical My Sister Eileen and his Tashlin-aping sex comedies of the sixties like Sex and the Single Girl and Paris-- When It Sizzles are my favorites-- but he made a lot of low-rent Sternberg/Deitrich films with his lover Novak, the best of which is probably Strangers When We Meet (though more for Matthau/Rush than the stars). He also made a lot of movies with his old co-star Mickey Rooney, but there was no bromance there (that I know of!)

[Yojimbo]

(I can't recall seeing any other film by director, Quine).

He's an interesting child-actor-turned-director receiving something of a newfound interest lately thanks to all the Sony vault leaks. His comedies are probably his strong suit-- the brilliant musical My Sister Eileen and his Tashlin-aping sex comedies of the sixties like Sex and the Single Girl and Paris-- When It Sizzles are my favorites-- but he made a lot of low-rent Sternberg/Deitrich films with his lover Novak, the best of which is probably Strangers When We Meet (though more for Matthau/Rush than the stars). He also made a lot of movies with his old co-star Mickey Rooney, but there was no bromance there (that I know of!)

sounds like I'll have to swat up on some Quine: I love Tashlin, and based on what he did with Novak here, their 'Sternberg/Deitrich-esque' collaborations definitely warrant further investigation.

btw, love the new 'avatar': is that in keeping with the 'noir' project: more vampy than cool?

[Yojimbo]

I really *wanted* to be bothered by the Gomez caricature but he just threw himself into it so much that I ended up forgetting any problems I should have with the portrayal and went along with it (there's more than Gomez to get anthropologically stuck on in the film anyway). At least he was a positive character with some admittedly err "questionable" faults (my people like being poor? yeesh.) He did make me want to go drink some tequila though. Speaking of tequila, maybe have some before giving the brazen Armored Car Robbery another shot (might loosen you up a bit for the ride.) I never watched too much Perry Mason so I'm spared from that Talman connection.

I haven't drank any tequila since that extended session with a friend of my brother's in Philadelphia, way back when.
But this could be the perfect opportunity for me to taste that malt aged Irish whiskey I bought recently
(I've been reluctant to return to whisk(e)y while memories of those pounding J&B-fuelled hangovers linger in the memory, but, if it'll help me give Bill Talman his due, it might just be worth it)

[Cold Bishop]

The Hitch-Hiker (1953, Ida Lupino)

A good example of a simple story well told, this films gets by on its single-minded pursuit of its central premise, with nary a diversion or superfluous detail to bog down the tiring, relentless action, all presented with the utmost brevity in a tight, succinct 70 minutes run-time. The tight, no-nonsense approach to the story becomes obvious right from the films prologue, as we're shown Emmett Myers' preceding (William Talman) crime spree. Told simply and effectively, it rips through two murders in a rapid fire succession of footsteps, hands, flashlights, headlight, and newspaper headlines that could make Bresson proud. Later on, when the two leads finally picks up their hitchhiker, there is no foreplay before the crime as is expected in such a film, the movie doesn't try to ring any easy suspense out of our knowledge of who the hitchhiker is; he pulls the gun out instantaneously and kicks the narrative into action.

This is the film's driving philosophy. While its premise may have many precedents - The Devil Thumbs a Ride; the long line of hostage films of the 30s and 40s, most typified by those that Bogart use to excel at (The Petrified Forest, Key Largo); the final act of The Treasure of the Sierra Madre - Ida Lupino takes the simple, and already over-familiar, premise, and instead of trying to embellish it or add an interesting twist to it, it excels by stripping it down to its bare essentials, in its narrative (the aforementioned brevity and succinctness), formally (the film's docudrama trappings veer near neorealism), in its characterizations (three major characters with no unnecessary back-stories or exposition), and its setting (stripping it down to barren, primal landscapes).

At first glance, it seems odd that the film can be so easily categorized as a film noir. There are no claustrophobic, urban settings, no femme fatales (no femmes at all really), and with the exception of few key, effective night scenes, the film is categorized entirely by blazing sunshine and wide open expanses. In many ways, its noirness could be chalked up entirely to Tallman's performance. With his leather jacket, .38 caliber revolver, lazy eye, and permanent scowl, he's the embodiment of some sort of pulp paperback nightmare, sweating the sleaze and barely contained violence that noir is made of from every pore. There's noir heavies, then there's uranium. If the aforementioned crime spree opening already packs the sensationalist punch of film noir, Tallman's first reveal, emerging from the blackness of the backseat, gun-first, is almost enough to secure the film's noir credentials.

In many ways, Tallman's relentless brutality, sociopathic lack of empathy, and omnipresent eye pushes him past film heavy and near the realm of horror monster. The manner of his terror especially sets him apart: making it clear that he's holding off killing his captives until they've fulfilled their usefulness, and their subsequent behavior largely characterized by paralysis and passivity, the film rings its tension not out of physical danger, but psychological horror. As such, Tallman is sometimes less a man than a force of nature, manipulating and toying with his captives into there reduced to nothing more than nerves and fear. When this nastiness and tension mixes with the desert locales, the sweat, dirt and heat becomes almost palpable. As such, the film also acts as a prototype to the survival horror genre that would thrive in the seventies, with their similar emphasis on desolate landscapes and exhausting brutality: The Last House on the Left, The Hills Have Eyes, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Rituals...

Of course, while the hostage film may have already been familiar, The Hitch-Hiker seems to be the unrecognized inauguration of its 1950s strain, where the Nuclear Family is beset by the forces of crime/poverty/youth/sexual perversions, but ultimately pulls together and triumphs, restoring the legitimacy of the middle-class. The Desperate Hours is the archetypal example; Violent Saturday, by far, its most interesting variation; but also including such lesser films as Cry Terror, The Night Holds Terror, The Dark Past, Suddenly, and Black Tuesday. Mercifully, the film's leanness also strips the middle-class "message movie" pretenses that mar the other films away. But if the film's stripped down aesthetic has a downside, it's that it doesn't leave much in its place for the viewer to cling to emotionally or intellectually. The film's modus operandi makes even the idea of subtext seem like a gratuitous indulgence that Lupino can't afford to entertain. Nonetheless, the power dynamics between Tallman, Lovejoy and O'Brien have plenty to say, and while it may not be proper to call it subtext, it still has much to chew on. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar; true, but sometimes a cigar in itself can say a lot about the world.

Class: In the genre of "hostage" film, this is obviously the most obvious issue to focus on, and Lupino certainly doesn't neglect it. Lovejoy and O'Brien are clearly aligned with the nuclear family, and Tallman, as usual per the genre, is the embodiment of its external fears penetrating it at its heart. Tallman's contempt for the middle class becomes clear during his speech halfway in the film: "You guys are soft. Know what makes you that way? You're up to your necks in I.O.U.s.". The promise of family and jobs at home for the two captives are contrasted with the hints of Tallman's upbringing, abandoned by his parents after one look at his "pus eye". The two captives are constantly forced by Tallman into acts of domesticity, both feminine (cooking, grocery shopping) and masculine (mechanical work). It's perhaps not a coincidence that one of the few people they come across on their journey, and who come close to figuring them out, seems to be a newlywed couple. In his own way, Tallman has created his own perverted family unit, built on fear, intimidation and power, and installed himself as its brutal patriarch.

Masculinity: While I'll save the homoerotic readings for its progeny (don't tell LexG, but I'm talking about The Hitcher), masculinity certainly plays a large role in the power dynamics between the three. The simple premise, and its near lack of females, allows Lupino to mount of study of masculinity under extreme pressure. This is probably clearest in two portrayals of the captives: Frank Lovejoy is quiet, stoic, patient. Edmond O'Brien, while not exactly effeminate, is from the beginning shown to be more emotional, nostalgic, childish, impulsive. Tallman instantly picks up on this, and his mind-games work almost entirely along these lines. O'Brien becomes the target of nearly all his cruelty, Tallman taking a sadistic joy in watching him squirm. It also seems very peculiar that the last humiliation that Tallman makes O'Brien suffer involves making him "undress". As for Lovejoy, Tallman is pleased to just let him watch his friend be bullied, or in the case of the shooting range scene, forces him to participate in the bullying. In fact, the aforementioned physical characteristics of Tallman constantly seem to assert his virility, working gradually down the line, past the "neutral" Lovejoy, to O'Brien, who's overalls and baseball hat give him something of a boy-like appearance. If we can ignore the obvious "phallic" interpretation, Tallman's revolver, in this scenario, literally means power, and power is masculinity. He instantly recognizes the difference in masculinity between the two, and capitalizes on it, the aforementioned "domestication" being his own way of asserting his own over the two.

Anxiety: While I think it would be a stretch to read the film to be sub-textually about the "Red Scare", as a few seem to have (or to give a further example, to suggest that Tallman is carrying out the role of the filmmaker) it seems quite obvious that the force driving the film is one of paranoia and anxiety, the type, that in retrospect, seems inextricably tied up with life in the 1950s. Tallman's controlling, masculine brutality; his ability to instantly find the rifts and disparities between his captives and use them to his advantage; his omnipresent eye, never allowing his captives to know when they are being watched or not; his instinctive disgust and fear towards "otherness", refusing his captives to "speak Mexican" despite being in Mexico (in a film that is otherwise evenhanded and sympathetic to Mexicans): Tallman embodies this anxiety, and his presence forces his captives to come face to face with it. As such, Tallman isn't simply an external other - the lower-class criminal that his characterization suggests - but is actually a part of Lovejoy and O'Brien's middle-class lifestyle, an embodiment of something that is waiting for them back home, perhaps the very thing they were trying to escape through their fishing trip.

The Switch: By far, the moment that has puzzled me the most is the film's ending. To avoid capture, Tallman switches clothes with O'Brien. The plan fails, Tallman ends up in handcuffs, and we suddenly see a side of him we hadn't, as he's reduced to a weak, bawling child. O'Brien, dressed in Tallman's leather jacket, seeing this, plummets him with punches, until he's restrained by the police. On one hand, this may seem like simple poetic justice, dramatic symmetry providing O'Brien (and audience) with some revenge after the tense proceedings. Perhaps. But the manner in which the film so clearly have O'Brien and Tallman switch places (and like much of the film, leaves Lovejoy a "neutral" bystander) still stays stuck in my head. Perhaps it isn't just justice, but Tallman and O'Brien do "switch", an action that has several implication 1) O'Brien doesn't just see his captor when he looks at Tallman, but also sees himself as he was when he was captive, and is attacking his own weakness as much as he's getting revenge. 2) It correlates violence with loss of power. O'Brien loses power to Tallman for a week, and reacts with violence. Tallman has lost power to the middle-class all his life, and reacts with a crime spree. It both cases, the violence is reactionary. In both scenarios, O'Brien is implicated with Tallman. O'Brien is as disgusted by weakness as Tallman is. O'Brien is capable of violence once the dynamics of power are switched out of his favor. In both cases, Tallman isn't just an external threat, but a embodiment of the violence that lies repressed just below the surface of the nuclear family, the anxiety of the 1950s. This is what drives the film: not as subtext, not as allegory or parable, but as an essential element which it can't do without, the way a human being can't do without air: the film is so completely dependent on it that it becomes ignorant of its existence.

Of course, these are nothing more than stray thoughts, notes that perhaps someone else more-willing may be able to use to wrestle with the film. The film's major quality - it's single-minded focus on its narrative - is also a fault - neglecting any real overt meaning to seize on to. It never clearly transcends being "a simple story well-told". But as with most films whose flaw are not blemishes, obvious lapses of judgment or compromise that can be easily designated from the positives; films who's flaws are so inextricably tied up with their qualities that one couldn't imagine fixing one without damaging the other; they are films worth returning to and wrestling with. I'd categorize The Hitch-Hiker as such, and while it wouldn't make my list now, it's always possible I'd come around to it.

Next Up: T-Men and Raw Deal

[Tom Hagen]

domino et al: my swapsie for this one is Boorman's Point Blank, in the unlikely event that you guys haven't been turned on to it by Jarmusch and it's many other champions. My backup is Truffaut's The Soft Skin.

[tojoed]

I like "The Soft Skin" a lot, very underrated Truffaut, but I can't bring myself to put it in a Film Noir list.
How would you justify that?

[Cold Bishop]

I'd rather you reconsider. No neo-noirs period. Maybe others are lenient, but this and The Last Seduction are like throwing your swapsies away. I'd take you up for the sake of my swapsie, but even if I fall in love with the film, it has no chance of making the list.

Plus, hasn't everyone seen Point Blank at this point? Even in a neo-noir list (which would actually be a nice contender for the genre project, although the definitions would be even more maddening than regular film noir), it would be kind of a no-brainer.