Studio Canal / Kinowelt / Optimum

[atcolomb]

The following from The Digital Bits:

Lionsgate is issuing another classic title on Blu-ray under its Studio Canal Collection - The Third Man (1949, with Joseph Cotten). Expected after the Criterion version went out of print, the Lionsagte release date is September 21st and supplements will include a new audio commentary with assistant director Guy Hamilton, actor Simon Callow and crew member Angela Allen; a new The Third Man interactive Vienna Tour; and a 20-page collectible booklet written by film historian Charles Drazin. The disc also features "The Third Man on the Radio", audio interviews with Joseph Cotten and Graham Greene, an alternative opening with voice-over from Joseph Cotten, an interview and zither performance from Cornelia Mayer, plus a stills gallery and original trailers

With them releasing "Ran" and "Contempt" i wonder how good this version will be?......

[domino harvey]

supplements will include a new audio commentary with assistant director Guy Hamilton, actor Simon Callow and crew member Angela Allen

[atcolomb]

supplements will include a new audio commentary with assistant director Guy Hamilton, actor Simon Callow and crew member Angela Allen

Yeap...i know the feeling but will keep a open mind on it untill the reviews come out. So far i have a VHS, Criterion laserdisc, Criterion dvd and one Criterion blu-ray versions of the movie......

[TMDaines]

Arthaus website has full specs of next Studio Canal's up: http://www.arthaus.de/studiocanal_collection

The Third Man is a pretty strong package with both releases having a handful of exclusive extras.

[tojoed]

I don't see why it shouldn't be as good or better than the Criterion. If you remember, the Studio Canal/Optimum "Third Man" was thought by many to be superior.

[swo17]

I believe you meant to make that post on traitorforum.org.

[tojoed]

I believe you meant to make that post on traitorforum.org.

You would. But I'm serious, a lot of people on this forum think the same (See also "Peeping Tom"). We'll see when it comes out.

[TMDaines]

I don't see why it shouldn't be as good or better than the Criterion. If you remember, the Studio Canal/Optimum "Third Man" was thought by many to be superior.

It's kind of funny. One can criticise and rip the shit out of the Studio Canal releases on here, but there's an uproar when people find similar faults with Criterion releases. If the colour balance is out of tilt on a Criterion then there's people leaping to their defence and trying to justify it; if the same happens on a Studio Canal then the release is quickly deemed worthless.

[peerpee]

If that happens, it's because we know Criterion at least care about the films and would have tried to get it right. It's called the benefit of the doubt. Conversely, there's been way too many sloppy errors and downright criminal mistakes in these knocked out one-size-fits-the-world Studio Canal BDs for them to have the benefit of anything.

[tojoed]

...in these knocked out one-size-fits-the-world Studio Canal BDs ....

Nick, what's wrong with "one-size fits-the-world"? Isn't that what region freedom is all about?

[RossyG]

I probably sound like a little Englander here, but these one size fits all releases usually end up with Americanised subtitles. If I buy a Criterion DVD then I understand why words like colour and grey are spelt differently. They're tailored primarily for the US market. But if I buy a BD or DVD in the UK from a British company and it has French teens supposedly saying "Aw, dude. Aintcha gonna come?" then it annoys me. Some of the translated lines in Optimum's Mesrine BD for example were excruciating. If you're targetting a British audience, use British English.

And don't get me started on the original La Haine DVD, full of boyz in da hood slang and the character Asterix renamed Snoopy.

This isn't confined to discs, by the way. The subtitles for Mesrine were the same for the UK cinema release.

[Zot!]

"Mate", I am forced to suffer through "daft" Englishisms on a large number of Euro-movies, that they presumably translate in the UK, but publish in the US so I don't think you're getting the worst of it. "Toodle Pip."

[TMDaines]

"Mate", I am forced to suffer through "daft" Englishisms on a large number of Euro-movies, that they presumably translate in the UK, but publish in the US so I don't think you're getting the worst of it. "Toodle Pip."

Care to provide an example?

[bigP]

Seriously? Toodle-Pip? Check your disc and see if subtitling was provided by Ye Olde Ironic Captioning Co. (and Sons). I'm sure that phrase was brought in by and kicked out with Dick Van Dyke.

[TMDaines]

I was thinking the same. In all seriousness though, for the overwhelming majority of international releases (non US or UK specific) American English seems to be the norm. I've let to come across any horrific subtitling attempts though. The German and Italian markets do a good job of translating their films when they choose to do so.

"Mate"

Yeh, you don't know your British English very well. "Mate" is pretty much just non-American and not merely confined to Britain.

[peerpee]

Nick, that seems pretty strong. If you were talking about Optimum per se I couldn't agree more - things like Near Dark are abominations.

But - save for Ran (depending on your view of which color scheme is right) and Le Mepris, the most egregious thing I can find with Canal Blus is that they are stuck with too many older, and less than great telecines, which perhaps in haste or perhaps not, they are (or were) just pushing out there to simply get them into circulation.

Well that's part of the problem. A huge company just "pushing less than great telecines out there", on a glorious, new format - giving the format (and themselves) a bad name in the process.

Soundtracks that are a couple of frames out of synch (THE LADYKILLERS), shocking telecine mistakes (LE MEPRIS, RAN), completely muffed up subtitles (BREATHLESS) that are out of synch, terrible off-the-shelf unsubtle American translations for titles that have state-of-the-art translations, just a huge lack of care evident in all aspects of the production. Studio Canal are too big and putting out too much stuff to really care that much.

Nick, what's wrong with "one-size fits-the-world"? Isn't that what region freedom is all about?

They're not even region-free though are they? They're the same discs, but encoded Region B for Europe and Region A for the US. So what does that mean?

American English subtitles should be localised with American spellings/syntax/idiosyncracies, just as British subtitles should be --

There was always the chance that another distributor could improve on a telecine, or an error, or subtitles, or extras -- but now Studio Canal issue the same thing for the world and we all get the same errors. If they had seriously good quality control and set themselves a high benchmark it wouldn't be as much of a problem. Too much work is probably being left to the authoring house to sort out and stuff isn't being polished or fixed.

[RossyG]

"Mate", I am forced to suffer through "daft" Englishisms on a large number of Euro-movies, that they presumably translate in the UK, but publish in the US so I don't think you're getting the worst of it. "Toodle Pip."

Ideally, neither of us should get the worst of it. It should be American English for US releases and British English for the UK.

As for Studio Canal... I pre-order and blind buy just about every BFI and Masters of Cinema BD. I have total trust in them. If I were multi-region, I'd do the same with many Criterion titles. I wouldn't dream of doing that with the Studio Canal Collection. I hold back until the reviews hit the internet then weigh up whether to buy them.

AIUI, Criterion and particularly MoC are cottage industries; Canal is a media giant. So why is it always the latter's discs that are cocked up so frequently? (Possible answer: small companies care more; it's a labour of love for them).

In terms of UK BD releases, MoC haven't put a foot wrong to my knowledge. The BFI erred just the once with The Leopard but were quick to make amends and produce a fabulous replacement. Canal? They've ripped people off with substandard discs like Ran and Le Mepris, released almost a year ago. Recalls? Replacements? Nope, not a word. They've done nothing to put this right and inspire confidence in me, as a BD consumer.

[Zot!]

I was thinking the same. In all seriousness though, for the overwhelming majority of international releases (non US or UK specific) American English seems to be the norm. I've let to come across any horrific subtitling attempts though. The German and Italian markets do a good job of translating their films when they choose to do so.

"Mate"

Yeh, you don't know your British English very well. "Mate" is pretty much just non-American and not merely confined to Britain.

Would "chap" be more English? I was just "taking the piss", so no offense meant. I actually work for an international company and have in casual conversation been "Toodle Pipped" by my boss believe it or not. As far as British translations, I find that most low budget US DVD releases of European movies have the double whammy of PAL to NTSC transfers and British translations. As an example, I'm a fan of recent Danish cinema, and nearly all of those are just poorly ported copies of the european discs. I believe most French Kinos are the same way. USA! USA! USA!

[peerpee]

American English is a mongrel patois and Britain is swamped with it from all angles. I have absolutely zero sympathy with you!

[Zot!]

I appreciate that your put-down is in French. I can promise you that you haven't seen anything until you've seen Terminator on VHS dubbed into Hungarian. "I'll be back" comes across something like "Pardon me, I will return momentarily".

[PillowRock]

for the overwhelming majority of international releases (non US or UK specific) American English seems to be the norm.

I think that *may* depend on what you mean by "international releases".

If you're talking about multi-national corporations doing one mastering job to be released in multiple English speaking countries, then I expect that you are right. I think they would tend to tailor most of the subtitles to the largest market, the US.

On the other hand, having gone through the entire "L'Integral Jacques Demy" and 2 or 3 disks of the Sacha Guitry "L'Age D'Or" set ......

I was thinking that English subs on French movies released to French audiences seemed to lean a bit toward British English (possibly more the Guitry set than the Demy set). Granted that they generally do seem to just stay away from any dialect specific slang . However, at the moment I'm having trouble remembering any specific examples in either direction. Things like the spelling of color / colour tend to slide by me without being noticed either way; I've seen both enough that neither would pull my attention away from the movie (and the fact I'm trying to listen to the French, which is the closest thing I have to a second language).

I do remember getting a chuckle in Lola when the American sailor character, when speaking English, used "lift" instead of "elevator". I've never heard any American use that, unless they were specifically quoting or emulating Brits. But that's not subtitles.

Oh, wait. The pejoratives thrown at the riot police in Une Chambre En Ville might have been American specific. I'm not sure. I know that "pig" was in there, and that is one that I'm not sure that I've ever heard from a British source. I don't remember what the others were that were included in that chant. (At this point, it's kinda dated as an American usage; but the movie is set about 1955, which might even be a touch early for it to be a time correct Americanism.) I don't remember what the other words were that were included in the subtitles for that chant.

[Jonathan S]

American English subtitles should be localised with American spellings/syntax/idiosyncracies, just as British subtitles should be --.

I just watched the UK Studio Canal/Optimum Blu-ray of The Lost Honour of Katharina Blum in which the police interrogate Katharina about her "gas bills". It only gradually dawned on me they weren't interested in her household fuel consumption!

[rohmerin]

"We and the Americans are the same in everything, except in language" Wilde said (more or less, sorry for being a Spaniard and being a dissaster in American, British, South African, NZ or wherever English).

There're Spaniards who complain for reading Latin American Spanish subtitles or Argentinos that hate Castillian words. I've never understood that attitude if 99% is the same.

[rohmerin]

Excuse my ignorance, but I have to ask this: Canadians and USamericans, do you have the same accents (East coast, West) ?

[knives]

No.