402 The Milky Way

Discuss releases by Criterion and the films on them. Threads may contain spoilers!
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Mr Sausage
Has Risen from the Grave
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:02 am
Location: Canada

Re: 402 The Milky Way

#51 Post by Mr Sausage »

DavidHare wrote:Sausage, Bunuel certainly does take religion seriously because he's appalled by it.
Yes, I would agree. I hope I didn't come across as saying otherwise.
DavidHare wrote:He is like the obverse of a pantheistic (thus religious) director like Rossellini or Ford, in that he understands the meaningless of life, and the randomness of creation.
Does Bunuel truly think life is meaningless? It seems to me that when Bunuel undercuts religious symbolism and iconography, he does so not by revealing its essential emptiness or inability to contain meaning but by replacing the intended meaning with another, usually bawdy or blasphemous, meaning that has much more value to him. Those "virgin whores" and "semi naked S/M St Sebastians" are all attempts to replace what is frigid and unhuman in traditional religious symbols with something warm and human, revealing the eroticism and fetishism--those most genuine examples of the purely personal and individual--behind those people or things that aspire to be above and outside the world, on a higher plane than the mere human. He drags these would-be transcendentalists back down to the world not to muddy them with meaninglessness, but because the world is the only place to be and where value is most to be found.

Bunuel to me has always been less a radical than a parodist, delighting always in taking the most received and accepted ideas and social norms and magnifying and exaggerating them to reveal all their most grotesque and ridiculous elements. That is to say, his art is not destructive, it's not about breaking things, it's about irony and reversal. Wanting to show every side of a thing is different from wanting to destroy it.
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HistoryProf
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:48 am
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Re: 402 The Milky Way

#52 Post by HistoryProf »

he is determinedly an atheist, despite the attmps of some misguided fools to reinvent him.
how would that work considering the multitude of quotes he let loose regarding his atheism, not the least of which was an emphatic “I am an atheist still, thank God” in the 60s wasn't it (the ironic pun intended of course)?
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zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:24 pm

Re: 402 The Milky Way

#53 Post by zedz »

HistoryProf wrote:
he is determinedly an atheist, despite the attmps of some misguided fools to reinvent him.
how would that work considering the multitude of quotes he let loose regarding his atheism, not the least of which was an emphatic “I am an atheist still, thank God” in the 60s wasn't it (the ironic pun intended of course)?
In some quarters, Christian 'rehabilitation' of non-Christian cultural figures (especially anybody who ever looked at Christianity sideways) is quite a cottage industry (I know a guy who devoted years of his life to 'proving' that little Bobby Zimmerman had 'always' been a Christian, decades before Slow Train Coming). As with many academic pursuits, there are ways to get around hard evidence to the contrary. Ignoring it seems to work.
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Florinaldo
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:38 pm
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Re: 402 The Milky Way

#54 Post by Florinaldo »

HistoryProf wrote:
he is determinedly an atheist, despite the attmps of some misguided fools to reinvent him.
how would that work considering the multitude of quotes he let loose regarding his atheism, not the least of which was an emphatic “I am an atheist still, thank God” in the 60s wasn't it (the ironic pun intended of course)?
Indeed, anyone who has read his memoir My Last Sigh and his other writings can have no doubt as to how solid his atheism was. But that will never stop some people from trying to reinvent a famous person's personal convictions after they are dead, as some did with the entirely fictional deathbed reversals of Darwin and Twain for example.

But of course, only as resolute an atheist as Buñuel could be so fascinated by the pomp of the Church and the recondite subtleties of theological doctrine and dogma to make a film such as this one, espacially considering his religious upbringing which left an inescapable cultural and philosophical frame of reference.

But as others have pointed out, I am not sure he would have agreed with the characterization put forward earlier in this thread that he found life meaningless. It would probably be more correct to say that the found the answers in religious faith to be meaningless and absurd. He managed to find meaning for his life in several other ways, like writing and filmaking, friends, and earthly pleasures like sex and drinking.
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Zinoviev
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:45 pm

Re: 402 The Milky Way

#55 Post by Zinoviev »

Indeed, anyone who has read his memoir My Last Sigh and his other writings can have no doubt as to how solid his atheism was. But that will never stop some people from trying to reinvent a famous person's personal convictions after they are dead, as some did with the entirely fictional deathbed reversals of Darwin and Twain for example.
Tolstoy, too.
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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:49 pm

Re: 402 The Milky Way

#56 Post by knives »

My memories off, but isn't Tolstoy way more complicated than any of the three above.
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Zinoviev
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:45 pm

Re: 402 The Milky Way

#57 Post by Zinoviev »

knives wrote:My memories off, but isn't Tolstoy way more complicated than any of the three above.
Undoubtedly, though certain elements in the Russian Orthodox Church claimed that the "heretic" Tolstoy had recanted on his deathbed.
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bottled spider
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:59 am

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#58 Post by bottled spider »

Michael Kerpan wrote:Even "pateliers" are for real: http://tinyurl.com/36nyky
Whatever the propriety of bumping a decade old post, I have to say reading this made my day. The world is suddenly a rosier place, knowing that the pateliers really existed.
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