Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

An ongoing project to survey the best films of individual decades, genres, and filmmakers
Locked
Message
Author
User avatar
Lemmy Caution
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:26 am
Location: East of Shanghai

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#426 Post by Lemmy Caution »

GringoTex wrote: 18. Moolaadé - Ousmane Sembene
It's absence in the final list was the biggest shocker for me.
Zedz, maybe you can check on this title, as Moolade was #20 on my list.
I was also surprised it didn't appear anywhere.
Possibly got lost in the shuffle. Still even two votes seems underwhelming for this powerful film.
7. Los muertos - Lisandro Alonso
I let you down on this GringO.
I thought I had a copy but when I looked for it, it seems maybe I don't.
Then I forgot to buy it because I kept thinking I had it.
Confusion reigned, and whether I have it or not, I certainly never saw it.
No guarantee that I'd like it, but it sounded worth a viewing.
I'll sift and if I don't have it, will pick up a copy and give it a belated whirl.
User avatar
colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

#427 Post by colinr0380 »

I'm afraid I wasn't particularly enamoured of Loach's output this decade (I'm looking for a film on the level of Ladybird, Ladybird or Raining Stones, where I don't have to make concessions just because I like the filmmaker), and as I have a deep antipathy to football and all its associated commodifications I was left annoyed by the short in Chacun son Cinema (even though it fulfils its brief of "To each their own cinema" by insulting the medium without insight), and cold by the football mad characters in Looking For Eric and Tickets. I just feel that attempts to make football filmic just doesn't seem to work, and mostly to me just seems like calculated and clunking attempts to tap into the massive revenue stream the game commands from its fans. Also see Zidane. Though I suppose Loach could have gone for Vinny Jones rather than Cantona as the ex-violent semi-actor football star in his film, so I guess we should be grateful for small mercies!

I could see Sweet Sixteen as being worthy of voting for though, simply because it was one of the few British films to deal with today's "yoof" without showing them as figures of hate or to be feared. But perhaps the only Loach film that I be glad to endorse from the decade would be the September 11th film comparing 2001 with 1973, and even that takes the overly emotional route of gaining sympathy for its protagonist rather than developing its message through subtler means.
Gregory wrote:I would also like to put in a word for one I forgot to vote for: The Corporation. I saw it high on Colin's list and knew I'd somehow forgotten it. This is still an extremely relevant film and one I hope more people on the forum will see.
Thanks Gregory. In a way The Corporation is a throw back to the time before activist documentaries became more about the personality of the documentarian and the force of their own charisma, or to when activist documentaries were more concerned with piecing together masses of overwhelming evidence to illustrate their case rather than just pushing the emotionalist buttons. While The Corporation can succumb on occasion to a personalised focus on individuals suffering under the yoke of tyrannical corporations (and the governments and media outlets they can manipulate) that is never seen as the only evidence needed to show the rightness of the cause - instead it is the pile of disparate documented case studies in every area which all help to illustrate a point without trading purely on a sympathetic audience's emotions.

It bears comparison with the earlier Manufacturing Consent, though in this case the mentor figure in Noam Chomsky is removed (or rather, he becomes just one of the many talking heads) from being the figurehead for the ideas, instead the ideas themselves take centre stage without any one defining individual being responsible for them. It develops the idea from the earlier film of there being various 'experts' able to go in depth on their specific area and eager to impart the information they have gathered being showcased throughout the film.

These case studies are then structured into the wider 'narrative' of the film itself, showing the vast range and reach of activities of corporations, and the way they have encroached into every area of human life (and natural life if the idea of ownership of the air you breathe, the water that falls from the sky and the souce of every river, come to pass).

So it is the odd documentary out in a decade in which the genre has become incredibly popular and as a consequence much abused.

My other orphans this decade were:

13. Faithless - A perfect film meticulously following the disintegration of a relationship in flashback from...when and who? Is it someone looking back on their life at its end and lamenting the lost possibilities? Or is a writer willing these characters into being to exorcise other personal demons? And is fictional creation important in itself to allow the author (and audience) the opportunity to considering different paths in life, or of the possibility of adultery without having to actually experience it?

It is a love letter to Bergman, as well as a highly sensual film in its own right (the flashbacks to the developing love affair are compelling even though the betrayal and inevitablilty of its end are always apparent; and the writer's study is perhaps the ultimate in enclosed luxurious comfort).

25 Les Revenants - I talked about this more here

32 A Snake of June - While I don't consider this Tsukamoto's greatest work (that would have to be Bullet Ballet), it is still an extremely beautiful, bizarrely stylised, extremely erotic and very funny and empowering (not just for women) film. More here

42 Bright Young Things - I mentioned at the beginning of the 2000s thread that I thought Gosford Park was perfect except for the jarring introduction of Stephen Fry's bumbling policeman half way through (who is soon dispensed of anyway) who seems to have wandered in from a much broader film. Bright Young Things (directed by Fry) in a way is a great companion piece to Gosford Park, showing the wayward aristocratic younger generation who are far more interested in parties and shenanigans than in portraying a cultured air of mystique to the commoners. It is also nicely captures the genesis of the idea of 'being famous for being famous' which must have seemed scandalously decadant at the time but now feels extremely prescient of our modern 'cult of celebrity' culture.

44 Redacted - While The Hurt Locker's focus interestingly strips the Iraq conflict down to the soldiers in Iraq and their 'in the moment' tasks, De Palma's film is a necessary counterpoint showing the soldiers as not aloof from the discussions going on around them all the time, but instead buffeted around by various whims (political, military, sexual, social conflicts, peer pressure, familial, cultural) that they are ill equipped to handle, because the task they have to perform is fundamentally flawed from the top down. The film exposes the difficulty of keeping a country governed and just doing your job, when even just focusing on the minutae of your job itself perpetuates the cycle of violence.

Plus while it is interesting to consider the Hurt Locker through the prism of Kathryn Bigelow's previous works, Redacted itself becomes even more fascinating when compared to Casualties of War. A very valuable film, and of course an overlooked one.

49 Longford - Probably the best British drama of the decade, as much about individual perception as about decisions of 'guilt' and 'innocence', or 'culpability' and 'absolution' (or 'good' and 'evil') which have already been decided for society by the courts and the media before the film begins. The film is a valuable lesson for a society built upon secular saints and demons that general decency and kindness to everyone, as well as an attempt to understand the indefensible or those considered irredeemable, is the mark of a truly decent person. Even if you do get lambasted as naive or taken advantage of by others, doesn't that just show up their own failings more pointedly?
Last edited by colinr0380 on Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:36 pm, edited 8 times in total.
User avatar
reno dakota
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#428 Post by reno dakota »

Lemmy Caution wrote:Zedz, maybe you can check on this title, as Moolade was #20 on my list. I was also surprised it didn't appear anywhere. Possibly got lost in the shuffle. Still even two votes seems underwhelming for this powerful film.
Moolaade did appear in the second set of also-rans. I put it on my list as well, but it seems it just didn't have enough support to place in the top 100. I doubt zedz has made a mistake here.
User avatar
cysiam
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:43 am
Location: Texas

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#429 Post by cysiam »

GringoTex wrote: 1. Battle in Heaven - Carlos Reygadas
Reygadas gets a lot of grief for his shamelessness (and I think he walks that thin line brilliantly), but I'm still surprised none of his films made it. In Battle in Heaven, there is no light or space between the personal, the political, the religious, the cinematic and the Mexico in this film. Bunuel would have been proud.
I loved this, and just realized that I left it off my final list.
User avatar
Lemmy Caution
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:26 am
Location: East of Shanghai

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#430 Post by Lemmy Caution »

reno dakota wrote: Moolaade did appear in the second set of also-rans. I put it on my list as well, but it seems it just didn't have enough support to place in the top 100. I doubt zedz has made a mistake here.
Ah, thanks -- I see it now. Sorry 'bout that.
These eyes just don't skim and scan like they used to.

Top 100?
It didn't even get 100 points, or crack the first also-ran list.
Gringo, fyi, it's in the ALSO RANS -- PART TWO: EXILED: 50 – 99 POINTS in the middle, 3 places above the very long (so easy to spot) Lord of the Rings: Fellowship Of The CockRing title.

Sounds like Moolade made 3 lists (or at best placed very low on one or two others). Good film that really captures a village making choices.

9 of my 50 made the final top 100, which is more than I expected.
Though three of those were my 47th, 49th and 50th picks.

Good to see Up The Yangtze get some love. It didn't make my list, but I thought it was very well done and one of the better films to show what life is like in modern China. Blind Shaft did make my list, but not sure it got any further love. That is a terrific realist film about the seamy scramble to get ahead.
Last edited by Lemmy Caution on Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:24 pm

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#431 Post by zedz »

Lemmy Caution wrote:Zedz, maybe you can check on this title, as Moolade was #20 on my list.
You and Gringo were the only voters to place it higher than the 40s (2 other mentions).

And Sloper's right about The House of Mirth. Every vote for Of Time and the City that came in, I was mentally whining "They're voting for the wrong film!" Though I must confess that The House of Mirth ended up being bumped from my list (ahem).
User avatar
LQ
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:51 am
Contact:

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#432 Post by LQ »

Only two of my 50 failed to make it onto any list: The Shape of Things, and What Remains: The Life and Work of Sally Mann. I'm kind of surprised that The Shape of Things didn't appear on any of the lists, I thought that it had at least a few supporters here. As for What Remains, it is an exquisitely beautiful and very personal look into the life and creative process of photographer Sally Mann, but I imagine it might turn off anyone who is not a) already a fan or b) willing to be drawn into a documentary passionately and somewhat dogmatically in love with it's subject.
GringoTex wrote:30. Once Upon a Time in Mexico - Robert Rodriguez
Yeah it's still here and I still ain't backing down.
I admit it! I love this too. My favorite of the 'Mexico Trilogy'.
Last edited by LQ on Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
franco
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:32 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#433 Post by franco »

GringoTex wrote:7. Los muertos - Lisandro Alonso
Will certainly be my swapsie next go around. I’m not sure I’ve seen a 2000s film with more integrity. He films real people in real surroundings and never once cheats his setting with his camera until the final shot. Zero psychology and zero shaky-cam. Like mana from heaven.
I quite like what you wrote here, Gringo. You described precisely why I consider the film a masterpiece. If I knew it wouldn't make the list, I would have ranked the film higher!! If I cared less about fairness (to my other choices) I would have included all 3 of Lisandro Alonso's pre-Liverpool films into my top 10.
User avatar
zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:24 pm

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#434 Post by zedz »

As with many people, the top half or so of my list is pretty secure and the rest is arbitrary as hell. More than half of mine were dateless and / or desperate, so here’s the whole list

My top five all made it

1. Yi-Yi
2. The Virgin Stripped Bare by Her Bachelors
3. What Time Is It There?
4. Goodbye, Dragon Inn
5. Tropical Malady

After that, things get rather patchy

6. Come Into My World (Michel Gondry, 2002) – At least I’m not completely alone in my love for this. One of the most dazzling experimental shorts / special effects movies / plans sequences in years. Quite literally Busby Berkeley in four dimensions. Don’t let the Kylie put you off.

7. Werckmeister Harmonies
8. L’Intrus

9. Le Pont des Arts (Eugene Green, 2004) – When the lists just kept on coming in, I knew this didn’t have a chance, even though it’s picked up a few dedicated devotees along the way. If you want to see how the lessons of late Bresson and late Dreyer can be applied to modern cinema, look no further. Plus, it’s one of the most surprising and confounding combinations (collisions?) of comedy and tragedy I’ve seen. Eeouuhh, indeed.

10. Who’s Camus Anyway? – My swapsie, scraping in.
11. The Son
12. The World

13. In the City of Sylvia – Elated to see this place, as it’s just the kind of delicate (albeit disturbing) delight that’s apt to evaporate as soon as it leaves the festival circuit. It’s incredibly evocative while you’re watching it, but it continues to have the same effect lingering in your memory.

14. Zodiac – Weird voting pattern for this. Hardly any votes at the start, then a dense block in the middle which shot it into the top three, then slowing down again at the end. Is there significance to this pattern? Before this, Fincher had been just a visually accomplished director with a lot of really bad habits and a fumbling narrative sense. The sudden maturity exhibited by this film is astonishing. The Coen and Anderson films that overshadowed it in 2007 are just kids’ stuff in comparison, in my opinion.

15. Demonlover – Another film that has a very long half-life in my memory, though it subsists there much more malignantly than In the City of Sylvia.

16. Platform
17. Friday Night

18. Black and White Trypps Number Four (Russell, 2008) – Assaultive, hypnotic abstraction of Richard Pryor concert footage, a real synaptic workout.

19. Outerborough (Bill Morrison, 2005) – I much prefer this to Morrison’s Decasia, though it’s a similar idea worked out with much more rigour, a ‘phantom ride’ through time as well as space.

20. The Decay of Fiction (Pat O’Neill, 2002) – Now, when I cryptically suggested that Mulholland Dr. and Goodbye, Dragon Inn might be the ideal double feature among all of the films voted for so far, that was before I added my own list, and this film, to the mix. This would make it a terrifying triple, or be an ideal partner for either of those. And basically, with this Hollywood fever dream in my top 20 there was no need to keep the Lynch film on my list.

21. Morphia (Aleksey Balabanov, 2008) – An incredible, and incredibly bleak film that brutally, methodically narrows its authentic historical sweep to its protagonist’s longing for the next fix. One of the most harrowing films about drug addiction I’ve ever seen. Meanwhile,Balabanov has quietly developed into a great classical filmmaker.

22. Honour of the Knights (Albert Serra, 2006) – A case in point for the arbitrariness of this list. For a long time I had this film and Birdsong clustered together in the middle of my list, with every intention of tossing one arbitrarily out. They’re very different films, and sentiment won out. Then at the last minute I reinstated Birdsong anyway.

23. Paper Soldier (Aleksey German Jr., 2008) – Let’s face it, you’re not going to get a new Tarkovsky film at this late stage, so you really ought to settle for the next best thing. Another Russian filmmaker who’s making great films in the grand old style under the radar.

24. You, the Living

25. Old Joy (Kelly Reichhardt, 2006) – The little film that couldn’t (quite), but it got damned close.

26. Punch-Drunk Love
27. Summer Hours

28. Flight of the Red Balloon (Hou, 2008) – Hou was a real victim of vote-splitting this time around, and I backed the wrong horse. But really, there’s not much to choose between them. I’ve always been cool on the well-loved Millennium Mambo, but obviously I ought to revisit it.

29. Private Property (Joachim Lafosse, 2006) – What I said for Paper Soldier, but swap out Pialat for Tarkovsky. Lafosse’s follow-up was a misfire, but a fascinating one, so he’s definitely somebody to watch. Actually, anyone who can direct actors like this is somebody to watch.

30. Distance (Koreeda Hirokazu, 2001) – My favourite Koreeda. There’s a slight glibness in some of his higher concept films (and I must admit I found the beloved Still Walking rather thin, particularly in comparison to several other recent films in the same line by Denis, Assayas and Nobuhiro). This one is messier and knottier and for me much more satisfying.

31. South of the Clouds (Zhu Wen, 2003) – Starts out like Hong, but takes a left-turn into Kafka (in a good way – I know all about those lame ‘Kafkaesque’ films from Europe in recent years). Somebody needs to rescue this film from obscurity, and somebody needs to let Zhu make another one.

32. The Holy Girl (Lucretia Martel, 2004) – This performed very well, but not up to La Cienaga (which I liked rather than loved). Still, looks like she’s here to stay.

33. Four Nights with Anna (Jerzy Skolimowski, 2008) – Soon after I discovered Skolimowski’s 60s masterpieces, I discovered he was still making them, even though he’s fallen off the international arthouse radar.

34. Tony Takitani (Ichikawa Jun, 2004) – I haven’t revisited this since I first saw it, and it’s the kind of delicate film that might not stand up to a revisit (a lot haven’t), but here it is anyway, if only for the reliable greatness of Issey Ogata.
.
35. Memories of Murder

36. Ydessa, the Bears and etc. (Agnes Varda, 2004) – You can have your gleaners and beaches, this was the Varda film of the decade for me. Great subject, but delivered with the kinds of eccentric grace notes only Varda would dream up.

37. A Gentle Breeze in the Village (Nobuhiro Yamashita, 2007) – I love Linda Linda Linda as much as the next guy, but this one pipped it at the post.

38. Russian Ark

39. Birdsong (Serra, 2008) – See above.

40. Vibrator (Hiroki Ryuichi, 2003) – Didn’t revisit this for the list (though I’ve got the nice Japanese DVD sitting around), so it’s running on the fumes of its great first impression.

41. 35 Rhums

42. Electric Dragon 80,000V (Sogo Ishii, 2001) – Lots of superhero movies this decade, but I bet this is the only one that conveys the demented hysterical euphoria of actually being a superhero.

43. Divine Intervention (Elia Suleiman, 2002) – One of the decade’s weirdest comedies (there are a few of them on this list!)

44. Cargo 200 (Aleksey Balabanov, 2007) – Whenever anybody namechecks another one of those trendy new European horror films, this is the dark corner my mind wanders back to. No contest.

45. Lifeline (Victor Erice, 2002) – One tiny Erice film is worth more than an entire decade of features from most directors.

46. Lift (Marc Isaacs, 2001) – Only discovered thanks to the good graces of Second Run. There really should have been more documentaries on this list, and I felt major pangs when other people voted for Forever and Hold Me Tight, Let Me Go (though Sisters in Law might have got my Longinotto vote) – after I’d left them high and dry.

47. Lake Tahoe (Fernando Eimbcke, 2008) – Duck Season also got some love, and Eimbcke is surely a filmmaker to watch. I picked this one because it was so formally ambitious, with great comic use of widescreen (and how many films can you say that about?)

48. The Death of Mr Lazarescu

49. The Studio Lights Dream of Their Real Life (Alexander Kluge, 2007) – After my Kluge marathon early in the year, how could I not include something by him? This lavish, brief structural film was my favourite abstract science fiction film of the decade.

50. Sound Barrier (Amir Naderi, 2005) – I mentioned this before as a classic last choice. I don’t know if it’s a great film, but it’s an unforgettable one. The set-up is that of a very contrived short film: a young deaf boy pillages a private archive of thousands of recorded talkback shows for the one show – which he cannot hear - that will unlock the secret of his identity. Naderi’s genius – or folly – is that this isn’t a short film, and so the increasingly desperate repetitions this extension entails build up to an indelible portrait of obsession and rage, anchored by a really intense child performance and aggressively stylised sound design. Some strong similarities to Matthew Barney’s work, but in a radically different and more affecting context.
User avatar
franco
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:32 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#435 Post by franco »

zedz wrote:Paper Soldier (Aleksey German Jr., 2008) – Let’s face it, you’re not going to get a new Tarkovsky film at this late stage, so you really ought to settle for the next best thing. Another Russian filmmaker who’s making great films in the grand old style under the radar.
I wonder how I will ever get to see this, other than looking for a Russian DVD. I saw his previous movie Garpastum in 2006 and thought that we had another Russian heir to Tarkovsky, even though the ending was truly weird.
User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:42 pm

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#436 Post by domino harvey »

Some small comfort in knowing that of my top fifty, only nine titles weren't seconded by at least one other person. But let me curse you all regardless for neglecting to mention

03 Hard Candy (Slade)
I know it's divisive, but this is the best two-hander since Sleuth and I guess the bad word of mouth from the haters (and most people really either love it or leave it) kept potential fans away? Give it a try, it's an intelligent, visually stimulating exercise in audience investment in fictive violence that really is one of the handful of '00s films worth canonizing.

10 Reefer Madness: the Movie Musical (Frickman)
I make no apologies for listing this one so high. I probably know every word by heart. It's hard to imagine the target audience for a work that requires so many simultaneous and often contradictory prerequisites to get what it does so well.

13 Louis and the Nazis (Cabb)
I just wasted my vote here, but Louis Theroux really is stunning and the hour he spends with these people is among the most fascinating ever captured.

18 Le fleur du mal (Chabrol)
25 La Demoiselle d'honneur (Chabrol)

Chabrol, like Woody Allen, never went away and is still producing his best work. These are exemplary works that show the master in total control of tone and pace, from the minor delights of Le fleur du mal to the full on crackle of the Bridesmaid (which boosts one of Chabrol's best sudden endings in a career full of them).

28 Helvetica (Hustwit)
One of the most fascinating documentaries ever made. I hope you are all slapping your forehead right now.

34 Idiocracy (Judge)
Pretty much getting proved as an accurate prediction of the future more and more with each passing day.

38 Live Free or Die Hard (Wiseman)
I voted for every Die Hard film and would do it again.

48 Enchanted (Lima)
Despite its obvious flaws, the sweetness of the cinematic conventions it skews coupled with Amy Adams' unbelievably giddy performance make this one a far more rewarding kids' film than most released this decade.
Last edited by domino harvey on Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
swo17
Bloodthirsty Butcher
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:25 pm
Location: SLC, UT

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#437 Post by swo17 »

zedz did say he inadvertently left Bubble off of the Also Rans - Exiled list.
User avatar
Murdoch
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:59 am
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#438 Post by Murdoch »

4. Riviera – Anne Villaceque - Not surprised no one voted for it but me since it has no DVD release and is only available for viewing over at the Auteurs - when I saw it it was free but it's been marked up to $5 since. A brilliant and visually gorgeous exploration of youthful sexuality and how much is lost with old age. I posted a thread about it in the New Films section, too lazy to dig it up but my thoughts are there.

6. Dr. Horrible’s Sing-A-Long Blog – Joss Whedon - What can I say other than I regret not placing this at number one? A perfect tragi-comedy that pushes its super-nerd mad scientist over the edge all to the tune of a few catchy songs. Enjoyable in every way and the best thing to come out of the WGA strike by far.

10. American Psycho – Mary Harron - Probably the best and most endlessly watchable indictment of 80s Reaganomics and materialism - mostly thanks to Bale's wacky/maniacal performance. The final monologue is chilling and gracefully maneuvers the film from social comedy to character study of a man driven insane and empty by the indifferent society that surrounds him.

36. The Informant! – Steven Soderbergh - Loved it, it began as a simple tale of corporate snitch and became something much more in the end as more and more Damon's character's lies are revealed and the audience is left guessing about everything he says. A fantastic character study, Damon gives the performance of his career with this and all the supporting cast is just as good.
User avatar
carax09
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:22 am
Location: This almost empty gin palace

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#439 Post by carax09 »

domino harvey wrote: 28 Helvetica (Hustwit)
One of the most fascinating documentaries ever made. I hope you are all slapping your forehead right now.
Well, I am, at least. I happened upon a showing on PBS (as part of their Independent Lens series) a few years ago, and was completely captivated from start to finish. Has anyone seen Objectified?
User avatar
knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:49 pm

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#440 Post by knives »

domino harvey wrote:Some small comfort in knowing that of my top fifty, only nine titles weren't seconded by at least one other person. But let me curse you all regardless for neglecting to mention

03 Hard Candy (Slade)
I know it's divisive, but this is the best two-hander since Sleuth and I guess the bad word of mouth from the haters (and most people really either love it or leave it) kept potential fans away? Give it a try, it's an intelligent, visually stimulating exercise in audience investment in fictive violence that really is one of the handful of '00s films worth canonizing.
How could I leave that one off. Admittedly it wouldn't have ranked high, but I could have taken any from my bottom ten in exchange for it. Whoever voted for Funny Games should have seen this instead.
Mise En Scene
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:24 pm

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#441 Post by Mise En Scene »

carax09 wrote:
domino harvey wrote: 28 Helvetica (Hustwit)
One of the most fascinating documentaries ever made. I hope you are all slapping your forehead right now.
Well, I am, at least. I happened upon a showing on PBS (as part of their Independent Lens series) a few years ago, and was completely captivated from start to finish. Has anyone seen Objectified?
I knew very little of typography and graphic design going into Helvetica and knew just as much of industrial design going in to Objectified, and I found Helvetica far more interesting and informative.
User avatar
Awesome Welles
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:02 am
Location: London

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#442 Post by Awesome Welles »

1. Fa yeung nin wa [In the Mood for Love] (2000)
2. The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
3. There Will Be Blood (2007)
4. Yi yi (2000)
5. A Prophete (2009)

This probably jumped up my list so high as I saw it recently and I was overwhelmed by how much I enjoyed it. With all the brilliant press I was still floored which I think really says something. If there is a trend with films I like that didn't place it's great genre films and this like many of the others is a great genre movie that doesn't get hitched on all the clichés or tread the same old ground. Audiard makes his movies like it's the first of its kind. The performances, especially Tahar Rahim are stunning.
6. Punch-Drunk Love (2002)
7. Le conseguenze dell'amore [The Consequences of Love] (2004)

I don't think this even made the also rans, was I really the only one to vote for it? It's a simple little film with a great central performance by Toni Servillo, it's a nice little twist on a genre movie and becomes much more of a character piece of sorts. Sorrentino has a great eye and his compositions are beautiful not to mention a great little pop infused score/soundtrack.
8. The Royal Tenenbaums (2001)
9. Werckmeister harmóniák [Werckmeister Harmonies] (2000)
10. Caché [Hidden] (2005)
11. Mulholland Dr. (2001)
12. L'enfant [The Child] (2005)
13. Cidade de Deus [City of God] (2002)

No one seems to like this but I do. What can I say it's just good fun.
14. Morvern Callar (2002)
15. Lourdes (2009)

A wonderful film that was easily my favourite from 09. Probably lacking in visibility right now as it's only been on the festival circuit. Sylvie Testud (fantastic performance) plays a paraplegic visiting Lourdes simply to have a holiday. Hausner deals with the whole thing beautifully, never mocking or believing in the powers of the pilgrim town. It's a beautifully slow burning story of one woman and we really get inside her, to understand that she doesn't simply want to be able to walk again but experience so many small and simple pleasures. Testud's character has a complexity to her that really makes the film, the script is fantastic.
16. Dare mo shiranai [Nobody Knows] (2004)
17. Das weisse Band - Eine deutsche Kindergeschichte [The White Ribbon] (2009)
18. The Squid and the Whale (2005)
19. Gomorra (2008)

Like Sorrentino's film this is a gangster picture that avoids all the usual story telling and characterisation techqniques. It's dramatic and exciting as well as realistic and giving us a feeling of the ground reportage. The episodic structure works very well and the mixture of professional/non-professional performances works very well.
20. No Country for Old Men (2007)
21. Inland Empire (2006)
22. Oldboy (2003)

Good honest, genre fun.
23. Palindromes (2004)
A little surprised to not see this place. One of the freakiest road movies ever made I'm sure. Solondz perfectly balances the blackest humour against the downright abject horror of one (13 year old) girl's experiences with men as she wants to get pregnant. Solondz uses many different girls to act as the performer of the girl giving us the impression that this girl, being abused and exploited could be any girl, sounds trite but it isn't. There is also a much darker side to the film involving Christian fundamentalists!
24. Tôkyô sonata (2008)
25. The Incredibles (2004)

Possibly Pixar's best film. Brad Bird proved with this film that all the explosion and CGI of Michael Bay and Hollywood could not achieve the same thrills as this wonderfully designed film and brilliant narrative with wonderful harks back to Bond, UNCLE, Watchmen and all sorts. Bird's film also shows us much of the imagery that Avatar would wow the world with five years later.
26. Batoru rowaiaru [Battle Royale] (2000)
Good genre fun.
27. Before Sunset (2004)
28. Zodiac (2007)
29. The Man Who Wasn't There (2001)
30. Le fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain [Amelie] (2001)
31. A History of Violence (2005)
32. Sen to Chihiro no kamikakushi [Spirited Away] (2001)
33. Y tu mamá también (2001)
34. Little Children (2006)

Intense and brooding drama with great central performances. Great script and one of the best voiceovers since Barry Lyndon.
35. 2046 (2004)
36. Waking Life (2001)

Linklater rotoscoping for the first time, waxing lyrical philosophical issues. Has the wonderful sprawling direction of Slacker whilst making the viewer feel slightly high.
37. WALL•E (2008)
38. Sexy Beast (2000)

Good genre fun, with Glazer proving that British gangster films don't have to be shite.
39. Zatôichi (2003)
40. Offside (2006)

41. Les triplettes de Belleville [Bellevile Rendez-Vous] (2003)
Beautifully designed and lyrical film. Chomet shows us what a Tati fan he really is.
42. The Bourne Ultimatum (2007)
Good genre fun and possibly one of the best action films I have ever seen.
43. Shaun of the Dead (2004)
Edgar Wright and Simon Pegg pitch a zombie narrative and iconography against a romantic comedy with brilliant results. It hits good scares, laughs and pathos. Apart from any of that it's hilarious.
44. Salinui chueok [Memories of Murder] (2003)
45. Persepolis (2007)

I was mesmerised by this film which managed to present a great animation style about very serious issues through the life and view point of a young girl with brilliant wit.
46. El laberinto del fauno [Pan's Labyrinth] (2006)
47. Kung fu [Kung Fu Hustle] (2004)

Stephen Chow makes a Chinese Kung Fu movie in American genre style, his films have a wonderful sense of humour foremost and manage to really pay brilliant homage to other films whilst never losing their cultural identity.
48. Låt den rätte komma in [Let the Right One in] (2008)
49. Sud pralad [Tropical Malady] (2004)
50. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (2004)
User avatar
MaxCastle
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:37 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#443 Post by MaxCastle »

Awesome Welles wrote: 7. Le conseguenze dell'amore [The Consequences of Love] (2004)
I don't think this even made the also rans, was I really the only one to vote for it? It's a simple little film with a great central performance by Toni Servillo, it's a nice little twist on a genre movie and becomes much more of a character piece of sorts. Sorrentino has a great eye and his compositions are beautiful not to mention a great little pop infused score/soundtrack.
Number 30 on my list; I think it wound up in the middle reaches of the also-rans.
User avatar
life_boy
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:51 am
Location: Mississippi

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#444 Post by life_boy »

By way of introduction, let me say that despite being alive and watching movies during this past decade, I was not actually watching that many great contemporary films during most of the 00's so this project felt a lot like a game of catchup. 27 of my final 50 films were watched in preparation for the 00's project, so that gives some idea about how fluid this decade will be as movies become available (and I catch up on a number of readily available titles that I have missed) and others are re-watched sometime down the road. Major omissions being Hou, Zia (beyond The World), as well as Hungarian and non-Hong Korean cinema. I also did not include a single 2009 movie on my list as I only saw a handful of '09 features and none of them were that great. I guess the game of catchup continues...

1. Yi Yi (Edward Yang, 2000) [made final 100]
Is this the last great film of the 20th century or the first great film of the 21st? It feels like the fulfillment of the potential of conventional narrative filmmaking. Even putting it at number one doesn’t seem quite high enough.

2. Woman is the Future of Man (Hong Sang-soo, 2004) [made final 100]
I couldn’t be more pleased to see three Hongs make the final list, including this one!

3. Honour of the Knights (Albert Serra, 2006)
This hit me in the huge way I expected Birdsong to but didn’t. Maybe it was the stripped down aesthetic as opposed to the “grand minimalism” of the latter film, but it does not really matter. As zedz has already pointed out, these Serra films are very personal experiences, dealing with something very deep in the viewer if they engage with them at all. As a result, it is a very difficult film to talk about because in strict terms nothing much happens. But I felt so much for these two people, searching aimlessly for meaning in their journey that they nearly miss the journey as a result.

4. L’intrus (Claire Denis, 2004) [made final 100]
5. Coal Money (Wang Bing, 2008)
Salesman moves to the 21st century, sells the old sedans for dumptrucks and the Bibles for coal. Wang is a smart filmmaker who can weave seemingly mundane action and detail into the sort of existential tapestry of workingman sensibility that made the Maysles’ film so perfect. As a continuation of that film, Coal Money says businesses may change but principles remain the same, and people are somehow always left to fend for themselves in the midst of it all. But I don’t want to overstress the connections I made to Salesman. There are some utterly profound sequences that one could argue work as atmosphere but really are quite clever character moments. I’m thinking in particular of the “descent into the coal pit,” where Wang leaves his camera rolling as it shoots through the dirty windshield of the dumptruck as it makes its way down into the line to wait for its payload. It seems superfluous, and could have easily been cut out by a more pragmatic editor, but such a cut would really do a film this delicate a great disservice for that is what each truck driver experiences every morning before he sets out to try and move his merchandise (that may or not be worth its haul). I can’t wait to get a hold of Wang’s other films; from what I’ve heard, West of the Tracks is even more of a masterpiece (if such a thing can exist).

6. War of the Worlds (Steven Spielberg, 2005)
Steven Spielberg’s dark as pitch re-imagining of Well’s novel is my pick for strongest post-9-11 film. Do the aliens hate us for our freedoms too, I wonder? By using the safe confines of a sci-fi genre classic (and the even safer confines of a summer blockbuster), Spielberg gives the most searing indictment of American depravity that I saw on-screen all decade. A broken family, through on-the-spot resourcefulness (good ol’ American know-how), steals one of the tent pegs of the American dream-----a minivan. One of the only working civilian automobiles for miles, the family flees the destroyed city for the safety of the suburbs where they are nearly killed by an airliner crashing into their house. Seeking to move further out from civilization, they eventually encounter a faceless mob who rip the family from their minivan and fight to take control of a machine that is worthless in the midst of a mob of pedestrians anyhow. Then a frightening gunshot is fired. It is not so much about terror as it is about our response to terror (as human beings, as Americans…I have no idea how other nationalities respond to this film through their own national identities). The ending (which apparently ruined it for many cinephiles) is so unjustified that it works as a cynical reminder that the audience of the day would never accept the cancerous diagnosis without picking out a lollipop at the front desk at the end.

7. The New World (Terrence Malick, 2005) [made final 100]
8. Tropical Malady (Apichatpong Weerasethakul, 2004) [made final 100]
9. Grizzly Man (Werner Herzog, 2005) [made final 100]
This was a film I appreciated but didn’t love until I was finally able to get a grasp of the grand theme hiding just under the surface: self-stylization. One of the great documentaries ABOUT the documentary form. Tidwell chooses his stylization in the same way Herzog, as narrator, chooses his own. In many ways, Herzog’s most revealing film about himself as a filmmaker.

10. Prometheus’ Garden (Bruce Bickford, 2008)
Bickford’s fever dream couldn’t quite cut it, even with the recommendation early on in the voting. It looks like I wasn’t alone in my vote however. I would love to know who else dared to place this somewhere on their list.

11. Werckmeister Harmonies (Bela Tarr, 2000) [made final 100]
12. Russian Ark (Aleksandr Sokurov, 2002) [made final 100]
13. Miami Vice (Michael Mann, 2006) [made final 100]
14. Domestic Violence (Frederick Wiseman, 2001)
The opening images, in typical Wiseman fashion, are images of the setting. Tampa, Florida in this case. But they are not as perfunctory as they sound. One shot of the city skyline is framed with a glass skyscraper centered. The next shot is a reframing of the same shot with the same building slightly off-kilter frame left. Seeing this cut made me instantly believe something I was sort-of beginning to suspect: Wiseman is a formalist. He doesn’t usually tip his hand so much but the material here probably warrants a shocking juxtaposition in “mundane establishing shots” to balance the juxtapositions in drama that will arise from the devastating emotional material of the film.

15. Mobile Men (Apichatpong Weerasethakul, 2008)
Should I just stop recommending films? And Weerasethakul, I thought, was one of the decade’s sacred cows. Oh well. Anyhow, it’s on YouTube for the curious.

[This is about where my list starts to become fluid. On any given day, trade out 15 or so of these and reshuffle the rankings.]

16. Los Muertos (Lisandro Alonso, 2004)
Los Muertos was seen on GringoTex’s rave and what a film. It’s a film you kind of live with rather than watch.

17. The Wayward Cloud (Tsai Ming-liang, 2005)
18. Marie Antionette (Sofia Coppola, 2006)
In an early version of the list, zedz says this was the major Coppola vote-getter (and was actually doing quite well). Obviously that changed at some point. I don’t remember much about Lost in Translation beyond thinking it was a decent film with a good lead performance, but this struck me as the work of a true talent.

19. Punch-Drunk Love (Paul Thomas Anderson, 2002) [made final 100]
20. Lifeline (Victor Erice, 2002)
21. Goodbye, Dragon Inn (Tsai Ming-liang, 2003) [made final 100]
22. Virgin Stripped Bare By Her Bachelors (Hong Sang-soo, 2000) [made final 100]
23. Bright Leaves (Ross McElwee, 2003)
Poor Ross. Even I ended up dropping him lower than I had originally anticipated once I started catching up on a lot of recommendations from the decade.

24. Zodiac (David Fincher, 2007) [made final 100]
I had avoided this after growing tired of Fincher’s antics, having watched Fight Club one too many times when I was in high school. But I was amazed to see a dense and mature work, dealing with far-reaching themes of cultural ownership and obsession and the limits of authority. It deeply integrates the story into its San Francisco setting. I think it is probably one of the great films about the information age. On a personal note: I had imagined seeing a scene like the building of the Transamerica Pyramid and was ecstatic to see passage of time find a root in the city beyond a time-lapse of clouds over the skyline.

25. One Day in People’s Poland (Maciej J. Drygas, 2006)
Another smart documentary from the Polish master. If you haven’t picked up the PWA Drygas set from Melrin.pa yet, do yourself a favor (a bonus is that in doing so you will also pick up one of the greatest documentaries of the 90’s which is one of the most blazing cinematic debuts in recent memory).

26. Electric Dragon 80.000 V (Sogo Ishii, 2001)
Zedz could not have said it any better.

27. Wendy and Lucy (Kelly Reichardt, 2008) [made final 100]
28. “Come Into My World” (Michel Gondry, 2002)
Michel Gondry is the Georges Méliès of the 21st century. But as with Méliès, I think he probably works best within the shorter format.

29. The World (Zia Zkang-ke, 2004) [made final 100]
30. Elephant (Gus Van Sant, 2003) [made final 100]
31. Coffee & Cigarettes (Jim Jarmusch, 2004)
Back when this was released a lot of people seemed to like it okay but dismissed it as “more a collection of episodic shorts than a unified whole.” That always seemed a funny criticism of a Jarmusch film and it was one I never could completely buy. I loved the insightful dissection of celebrity identity and in a just world, the Oscar nominees that pepper this film would have all received nominations for this one.

32. Black and White Trypps Number Four (Ben Russell, 2008)
33. What Time Is It There? (Tsai Ming-liang, 2001) [made final 100]
34. Ali (Michael Mann, 2001)
The lone vote. That’s fine. Mann makes a bio-pic that is to Ray what Electric Dragon 80.000 V is to The Dark Knight.

35. King of the Jews (Jay Rosenblatt, 2000)
I don’t love Rosenblatt but he does something really wonderful with the third part of this film that nearly makes up for the heavy-handed didacticism of the second part.

36. Who’s Camus, Anyway? (Mitsuo Yanagimachi, 2005) [made final 100]
37. Woman on the Beach (Hong Sang-soo, 2006) [made final 100]
38. Mission to Mars (Brian De Palma, 2000)
De Palma looks through the future past. The opening scene is not only a great parody of Apollo 13 but a joke on the nationalistic pride that usually tinges the rhetoric of the by-gone days of NASA’s Apollo program. At some point, nationalism becomes meaningless next to survival and De Palma answers all the questions Kubrick was afraid to answer in 2001. Sometimes, ambiguity is overrated.

39. The Order of Myths (Margaret Brown, 2008)
American racial and class divides get picked apart by someone who isn’t self-laudatory, vindictive, or preachy. It’s not about Civil Rights….it’s about what happens after that. Turns out the problems are far more complex than “Coexist” bumper stickers would have us believe.

40. Adaptation. (Spike Jonze, 2002) [made final 100]
41. Plot Point (Nicholas Provost, 2007)
Plot signifiers are assumed under the sweep of a movie’s score and begin to indicate that there are sinister things occurring under our very noses, right on the streets of New York City. Or are there?

42. The Company (Robert Altman, 2003)
43. Mulholland Drive (David Lynch, 2001) [made final 100]
44. Sunshine State (John Sayles, 2002)
45. The Incredibles (Brad Bird, 2004)
46. Night and Day (Hong Sang-soo, 2008)
47. Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room (Alex Gibney, 2006)
Call me crazy but I think this documentary is good in spite of itself. Everything seems conventional about it on the surface: the topicality, the political undertones, the use of music, the narrative structure, the use of re-enactments and archival footage. Nothing ground breaking here. But it is the final effect that works for me, the reconstruction of a particular time and place in American corporate culture. Plus those empty interiors of the Enron building toward the end of the film really seal the deal.

48. Old Joy (Kelly Reichardt, 2006)
49. Paranoid Park (Gus Van Sant, 2007) [made final 100]
50. The Fog of War (Errol Morris, 2003)

=======================================

Miscellaneous Response to the inclusion of:
25th Hour (Spike Lee, 2002)
I guess I need to re-watch this because I remember a pretty good film that I liked more than many around me at the time and then I sort of forgot about it over time. Back in '02, it didn't get any Oscar nominations and most critics gave it a token 10-slot or "Honorable Mention" if it made their end-of-year lists at all. I think Ebert gave it 3 1/2 stars and others were quick to dismiss it as more subdued and apolitical than Do the Right Thing, as if those are bad things. A couple years later, critics fawned over Lee's Inside Man in a way they hadn't about 25th Hour. And all of a sudden (it feels like), I'm seeing 25th Hour on critics' DECADE lists, as well as finding a comfy spot on this list. Obviously a lot of people here voted for it and it may not need a full-fledged defense, but I would love to hear some thoughts on it that might help me bump it further up the kevyip stack.
User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:42 pm

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#445 Post by domino harvey »

I wondered who else voted for War of the Worlds. Great write-up, it's easily the darkest and most depressing summer blockbuster ever. When I saw it there were a bunch of kids in the audience and I can't even imagine how scarred they must've been by the end
User avatar
TMDaines
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:01 pm
Location: Greater Manchester

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#446 Post by TMDaines »

It's so nice to read some lists where people actually seem to just be voting for films they love rather than being arthouse for the sake of arthouse or whatever.
User avatar
LQ
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:51 am
Contact:

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#447 Post by LQ »

life_boy wrote:10.Prometheus’ Garden (Bruce Bickford, 2008)
Bickford’s fever dream couldn’t quite cut it, even with the recommendation early on in the voting. It looks like I wasn’t alone in my vote however. I would love to know who else dared to place this somewhere on their list.
I placed it at #33 on my list, and I thank you for the recommendation. I don't think I would have heard of it, much less seen it, if it wasn't for this project.
User avatar
zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:24 pm

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#448 Post by zedz »

life_boy wrote: 18. Marie Antionette (Sofia Coppola, 2006)
In an early version of the list, zedz says this was the major Coppola vote-getter (and was actually doing quite well). Obviously that changed at some point. I don’t remember much about Lost in Translation beyond thinking it was a decent film with a good lead performance, but this struck me as the work of a true talent.
Yes indeed. Twelve lists in, this film had a very respectable 126 points to Lost in Translation's 16 (for comparison's sake, Zodiac was only up to 106 by this stage of the vote). Over half of Lost in Translation's votes came from the last half dozen lists tallied, and up until then Marie Antoinette was still ahead. Which helps illustrate just how arbitrary and unpredictable voting patterns can be.
User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:42 pm

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#449 Post by domino harvey »

I can't believe I forgot to vote for this, so I don't know if it even counts as a darling, but Roman Coppola's excellent CQ should have placed highly on my list. Certainly it's better than anything his sister's made!
Phil
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:51 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

#450 Post by Phil »

life_boy wrote:34. Ali (Michael Mann, 2001)
The lone vote.
I voted for this as well? I go back and forth between this and Miami Vice as my favorite Mann of the decade, but this is certainly my favorite biopic (and one of my favorites ever, though I can't say it's a genre I've got a whole lot of use for). The opening sequence alone would have put it on my list.
Locked