Kino

[nsps]

Imagine a simple scene with the two characters speaking, with no hallucinated murder in the haze, with a simple title card with a simple font "Couldn't she get drowned," the card would earn more chuckles than it does now.

Ah, but that's NOT the scene that's in the movie, so why should we think of it in that context? That's like asking to imagine a line delivery from a sound film without the actor's hesitations and pauses. If we aren't looking at the line as it's used in the actual context of the film, then what's the point? In the editing and placement of the cards, Murnau expresses how the character is searching out her words as she goes, which lends to the scene's eerie qualities.

[HarryLong]

The real problem with the Kino LILIOM is that it wasn't sourced from Fox but from some outfit calling itself the National Film Museum. Not actually a museum, much less national, or even dealing in celluloid rather than dupey tape transfers, these bozos are nothing more than pirates. How they managed to somehow bamboozle Kino is beyond me. Perhaps is was the rush to get another Lang title out to support the Epic Boxset (they were released simulaneously) but I seriously doubt these characters ever had even a short window on R1 DVD rights to any Fox product.

They bamboozled TCM, too, with several dreadful prints of various films ... the four PD Rathbone SHerlock Holmes titles among others.

[Ishmael]

“Couldn’t she get drowned?” always sounded like perfectly natural colloquial dialogue to me, much like something out of Twain. It’s been awhile since I’ve seen the film, but aren’t the characters uneducated people who’ve lived in a rural environment all their lives? I’ve heard people say much more grammatically atrocious things with much less poetry. To me, that line is beautifully suggestive and completely appropriate.

[HerrSchreck]

[Ah, but that's NOT the scene that's in the movie, so why should we think of it in that context?

Huh? We are chatting about the supposed "chilling" effect of the scene, which is allgeged to be coming from the imperfect English of the intertitles. Why should one not examine the relative strengths and weaknesses of the various elements that comprise the scene by modulating their surroundings to guage their effect on the individual components? This is done in rehearsals and in editing constantly (not to mention in study).

“Couldn’t she get drowned?” always sounded like perfectly natural colloquial dialogue to me, much like something out of Twain. It’s been awhile since I’ve seen the film, but aren’t the characters uneducated people who’ve lived in a rural environment all their lives? I’ve heard people say much more grammatically atrocious things with much less poetry. To me, that line is beautifully suggestive and completely appropriate.

It has been awhile since you've seen it. It's spoken by the urbane "Woman From The City" to the country bumpkin.

I'm not going to be put in the position of arguing against my favorite director and one of my favorite movies, so anyone else who'd like to argue their opinions of the line, I can only say-- the perception exists. It's discussed in the commentary for the film and been if I remember correctly noted by Eisner. I think there's even a song called Couldn't She Get Drowned by Zita Swoon, but I don't know what her opinion of the line is, beyond its highly memorable nature.

[Ishmael]

It has been awhile since you've seen it. It's spoken by the urbane "Woman From The City" to the country bumpkin.

Ah, yes, that does change things. Nevermind then. You're right, it has been awhile since I've seen it. Still a cool line, though.

[Sloper]

the caché of companies like Criterion and MoC

Yes, it's imperfect English, but not the same kind as a spelling mistake or saying "could of."

Or indeed writing "caché" when you meant "cachet"...

Touchet.

[Tommaso]

"Couldn't she get drowned": as Schreck believes that line is a result of a second-language problem (and it may indeed well be), I tried to re-translate it into German and came up with something like "Könnte sie nicht ertränkt werden" as opposed to the more common "Könnte sie nicht ertrinken". The first one (more or less a literal translation of "Couldn't she get drowned") sounds equally strange in German, but it also has the same creepy and slightly disorienting effect (stressing that she doesn't drown out of her own accord or because fate wills it, but in fact will be a victim of murder) as the English version, although it admittedly isn't 'low language' in German, but a perfectly acceptable sentence. So, I'm not fully sure whether it's just a translation mistake or quite intentional on the part of the writers.

[Tribe]

No se podria ahogar?

[nsps]

[Ah, but that's NOT the scene that's in the movie, so why should we think of it in that context?

Huh? We are chatting about the supposed "chilling" effect of the scene, which is allgeged to be coming from the imperfect English of the intertitles. Why should one not examine the relative strengths and weaknesses of the various elements that comprise the scene by modulating their surroundings to guage their effect on the individual components? This is done in rehearsals and in editing constantly (not to mention in study).

My point is that the line as it's presented is clearly has a pregnant pause. If the two characters are sitting in a room in a spoken word scene, the delivery would have to be appropriate to those connotations. Certainly you could change the settings and the reading of the line, but after a certain number of changes you end up proving how effective the line is as it stands. Anyhow, I suppose we've gone off on this tangent long enough, seeing as this is the Kino thread…

If I recall, the critique in the audio commentary was more about dislike of the animation of the word "drown" than the language of the title card. But it's been several years since I watched it, so I could be completely wrong.

[Tribe]

Has anyone seen Kino's gorgeous new web site that doesn't take forever to load?

EDIT: Oh, but once you enter the DVD part of the site...it's the same old. Never mind.

[HarryLong]

Maybe it's because I grew up in a rural area with some very strange colloquialisms ("The pie is all" for instance), but if I substitute killed for drowned in that sentence it doesn't strike me as wrong, so I can accept the use of drowned ... particularly as it suggests she's going to be helped along to that situation.

[nsps]

Just gave The General BD a quick look over and for the most part it looks very good. The damage and dirt is the same as from last year's DVD release of the film, so nothing major but it's definitely noticeable. The details are crisp and the grain patterns are intact. It might just be me, but I find the picture in the night-time scenes much sharper than on the DVD, which I thought was muddied by the tinting.

The worst of the edge-enhancement that I saw was when Johnnie calls on Annabelle Lee. There's a weird, thick black line above his collar throughout the scene, and in one shot he moves his head into it and the line conforms to his face. Kino should have known better. In other scenes I didn't notice it at all, though.

I'll give a full report later. Overall this looks to be a good start for the first silent BD release in the US.

[fiddlesticks]

Maybe it's because I grew up in a rural area with some very strange colloquialisms ("The pie is all" for instance)[...]

Ha! You must be from Amish country, like I am. That's a very Amish expression. Others: "I need to ready up the house" and the classic "throw your father down the stairs his hat."

[nsps]

…and the classic "throw your father down the stairs his hat."

Now I REALLY can't think of a creepier way to say that!

[Tribe]

From the new 2010 Kino catalog:
Dogtooth (Lanthimos, 2009)
Loren Cass (Fuller, 2007)
Tony Manero (Larrain, 2008)
Flicker (Sheehan, 2008)
Our Hospitality & Sherlock, Jr--coming to Blu Ray
Gaumont Treasures (1897-1913)
Early Films of Norma and Constance Talmadge

This is just what I was somewhat familiar with. I didn't notice anything regarding any new silent releases.

[nsps]

Did you just say "Our Hospitality and Sherlock Jr.--coming to blu-ray" ?!!?!??!!!?!?!!!? I hadn't even heard of HD transfers in the works. I hope the missing shot from the pool scene is restored.

My friends and I had an after-hours screening of The General BD at our local art-house's screen via their fancy new HD projector, and everyone was very happy with the transfer quality. I was probably the least excited, as there are some EE artifacts and other flaws that didn't quite match the first film we watched, The Third Man (but that's a review for another thread). Overall, a great job by Kino on a very important release. Now bring on Sherlock, Jr. and Hospitality!

[Tribe]

Did you just say "Our Hospitality and Sherlock Jr.--coming to blu-ray" ?!!?!??!!!?!?!!!?

That's what it says: "Coming soon to Blu Ray."

[nsps]

Did you just say "Our Hospitality and Sherlock Jr.--coming to blu-ray" ?!!?!??!!!?!?!!!?

That's what it says: "Coming soon to Blu Ray."

Hrm. Yes, it does indeed say that. I'll be interested to see if a new DVD is in the works as well. Obviously new The General took a year to make the format jump, so it's promising to see that they might be moving in a more aggressive direction.

[Jonathan S]

Besides the missing pool shot in Sherlock Jr. there is also missing footage early in the film when Buster's pockets are searched - we don't see the many items actually being removed. I understand this material still exists - I can't recall if it's in my own print (alas only 8mm but a real rarity even in that gauge).

Perhaps even more importantly for me, I hope Kino will commission a new score to replace the Club Foot Orchestra with their anachronistic electric guitars and Bond allusions. It will be interesting to see if they obtain the Carl Davis score for Our Hospitality after the reported difficulty/expense with licensing his music for The General.

Early Films of Norma and Constance Talmadge

This is just what I was somewhat familiar with. I didn't notice anything regarding any new silent releases.

The Talmadge films must be silents and I hadn't heard about those. Thanks for the info.

[Ben Cheshire]

Sherlock Jr. ...I hope Kino will commission a new score to replace the Club Foot Orchestra with their anachronistic electric guitars and Bond allusions. It will be interesting to see if they obtain the Carl Davis score for Our Hospitality

So it wasnt just me that found the club foot score embarassing. I liked it at first, for a bit of novelty, and to break up the monotony of Robert Israel that dominates the rest of the set. But when i realised Sherlock Jr was easily my favourite feature (if you include it as a feature), it began to feel like an appropriate name for that orchestra. Like, "whats the opposite of classy?" "Oh, have u heard the Club Foot Orchestra?" "ah, now I remember."

[HarryLong]

Maybe it's because I grew up in a rural area with some very strange colloquialisms ("The pie is all" for instance)[...]

Ha! You must be from Amish country, like I am. That's a very Amish expression. Others: "I need to ready up the house" and the classic "throw your father down the stairs his hat."

Ah,yes. And still here, for that matter.
There's also the classic, "Throw the cow over the fence some hay."
And in our region, at any rate, the expression is "read (Propnounced as in red) up the house" which doesn't make as much sense as "ready." (Curiously I've been told that "read/ready up the house" is actually a Scots colloquialism - and there were a goodly number of them who settled the Lebanon area...

[Gregory]

I just noticed that Kino crammed 225 minutes of Alice Guy onto one disc of the Gaumont Treasures set. I plan to take a look at the set soon but I wonder how low the bit rate is.

[Gregory]

Yes, I knew about the films left out, but my main reason for going with the Kino set was to save money. It cost a little less than half of what the Gaumont set would have. Anyway, that's a different problem from what I was mentioning, although adding a fourth disc (which Criterion often does at the $80 price point) could have meant both less cramming and less abridgement.
But perhaps whatever artifacts may result from putting 3.75 hours on one disc are purely academic when the films are like these, over a century old.

[Sloper]

Isn't it also the case that the Kino set skimps on the Leonce Perret - including the superb feature, 'Le roman d'un mousse'? It's all good, but the Perret stuff is solid gold.

[Tommaso]

Savant on the Avant-Garde Vol.3 set. I very much suppose that the description as 'Blu Ray' is wrong, though. Sounds fine, especially as he finds favorable words on the Marotta soundtrack for the Cavalcanti.