2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 2)

[zedz]

Those stills look very interesting. I can't imagine something that looks like that being bad-bad. By the way should I make my first Tsai Goodbye, Dragon Inn or should I search out an other?

That or What Time Is It There?. Goodbye, Dragon Inn pushes his aesthetic to some kind of minimalist extreme, but it seems to be the consensus choice around here. If you're going outside the decade, The Hole would be my other recommendation. It has the advantage of also showing you his goofy musical side. Gesundheit!

[knives]

In that case I'll probably pick up What Time Is It There? if the local rental shop has nothing.

[foggy eyes]

But this is basically irrelevant, since I don't think I've ever accused 35 Rhums of being 'little' or 'minor'.

Yeah, sorry, I saw "low-key" + "minor" in your last post and de-contextualised them by mistake. No sniping intended! I found there to be a humanity and warmth in 35 Rhums that goes beyong anything in Denis' films up to this point (Vendredi soir seems quite distanced and clinical to me), but we could probably quibble about that all day!

My current top ten is basically a reshuffle of the last one with one addition (my swapsie) and one stratospheric riser (Le Pont des Arts - The Portugese Nun looks to be one of the great unseens of this iteration, along with Police, Adjective), but after that it's still rather random, and I'm reminded how many films I need to revisit before I put this to bed.

Totally agree about Le Pont des Arts (somebody swapsie this!), but The Portuguese Nun seems to be struggling to win even diehard Green devotees over. I liked it a lot, but it's a bit shapeless and lacks much of the eccentric humour of the other films (with exceptions, such as Green himself boogieing away in a nightclub!). Gorgeous cinematography too, as always...

[GringoTex]

Happy coincidence- I just watched my second Tsai, I Don't Want to Sleep Alone, and thought it outstanding, preferring it far more to What Time Is It There?. It could have been titled All the Vermeers in Malaysia- a series of interior tasks sublimely lit and soundtracked by the outside world via windows. It's one of the most beautiful films of the decade. Even if the resolution of the sexual crises at the end seems a bit pat, the characters suffered for it and the noxious mist gives the proceedings a mythical quality anyway, so it works.

Being unfamiliar with Tsai, I didn't realize until the end credits that catatonic guy and homeless guy are played by the same actor. This knowledge is crucial to fully understanding the film, so be aware of this when you watch it for the first time.

[foggy eyes]

All the Vermeers in Malaysia

!

The evolution of Lee Kang-sheng's "character" (physicality, psychology, whatever) is one of the greatest gifts of Tsai's cinema - the Truffaut/Doinel films don't even come close for me...

I'd like to recommend either ...Sleep Alone or Goodbye, Dragon Inn as the best entry point for 2000s Tsai. What Time... is his weakest film, I think, and The Wayward Cloud is such an oddball culmination (+ "best of") of his films/themes/ideas that prior knowledge of what he's all about is pretty essential...

[GringoTex]

The evolution of Lee Kang-sheng's "character" (physicality, psychology, whatever) is one of the greatest gifts of Tsai's cinema

I didn't realize this. I'm going to watch his films in order now instead of doing his 2000s films first (for the purpose of this list) and then going back to the 90s as I originally intended.

[swo17]

It's a shame that Police, Adjective won't reach too many cities before the year's end.

Anyone eager to see Police, Adjective, PM me.

I actually just watched the film the other day, and it's definitely one that benefits from looking down on it as a whole. There is a lot of watching people watch people or watching people read (through slow-moving camera pans over paper) that I imagine might be a chore for some viewers, but when you understand why the film is structured this way, it's really kind of brilliant actually. I haven't had nearly as much time to dwell on this as 12:08 East of Bucharest--a strong contender for my list, which is probably more overtly comical and accessible--but the more I think about Police, Adjective, the more I love it.

[roujin]

The evolution of Lee Kang-sheng's "character" (physicality, psychology, whatever) is one of the greatest gifts of Tsai's cinema

Indeed. The triptich of What Time Is It There?, The Skywalk is Gone and The Wayward Cloud would count as possibly my favorite cinematic achievement of the decade. But, hell, I still haven't seen all of Tsai's films so I should probably shut up. . .

[zedz]

The evolution of Lee Kang-sheng's "character" (physicality, psychology, whatever) is one of the greatest gifts of Tsai's cinema - the Truffaut/Doinel films don't even come close for me...

(though that's a very overt reference point for Tsai)

To be completely over the top, it's probably the closest modern cinema gets to von Sternberg / Dietrich. And Lee's only the centre of a matrix of 'evolving' actors / characters for Tsai.

If you're 'doing' Tsai / Lee make sure you get The Skywalk Is Gone in there in the right slot, since it's the connective tissue between two features, as noted. And seeing Lee's own films (specifically The Missing, mentioned above) in this context is also worthwhile.

As for What Time Is It There? being his weakest film, not for me! It's sitting just above Dragon Inn in my top ten. Looks like foggy eyes and me are going to have to indulge in some Greco-Roman wrestling to settle these critical matters!

[Michael Kerpan]

No Tsai on my list -- What Time Is It There produced a severe allergic reaction (and I double-checked later to make sure this wasn't just a temporary problem -- and it wasn't).

[franco]

No Tsai on my list -- What Time Is It There produced a severe allergic reaction (and I double-checked later to make sure this wasn't just a temporary problem -- and it wasn't).

Yes Michael I remember your allergy well, but I think there is a slight chance that you may find Face tolerable. Most people who love What Time is it There and I Don't Want to Sleep Alone hate the movie. For me, it's just the opposite.

Something more likable for you could be Mia Hansen-Løve's Father of My Children. I can hardly believe that she's only 1 year older than me and is already making movies of her fiance's caliber. I may even put it on my list before the fiance's Summer Hours.

[GringoTex]

Before Sunset - The intense emotional reaction I had to this film caught me completely off-guard. It takes place in an intense present tense. Films like this aren't supposed to be made anymore. Definitely charting my list, though I'm interested to see how some time passed affects my thoughts on it.

[ptatler]

You've covered this I believe but I'm just double-checking:

NO DIRECTION HOME and WHEN THE LEVEES BROKE are eligible, right?

And I probably won't vote for it, but what about 9/11, the documentary by Jules Naudet? Not a great piece of cinema (though the editor deserves credit) but an important historical document.

[mikeohhh]

yes those are movies

[domino harvey]

[citation needed]

[puxzkkx]

In the Loop was fun - great cast, lots of funny one-liners, a breeze to watch - but it really would have worked better as a miniseries. Watching it was like watching four eps of a TV show one after another. Not to mention I've seen themes like this treated in this exact same way in various TV series... the NZ series 'The Pretender' is an example.

I'd give best in show honours to Gina McKee, whose drollery was perfectly timed and hilarious. Funny enough the only performance I really didn't respond to was Peter Capaldi's all-bark no-bite one.
Loved Kennedy, Chlumsky, Hollander as well.

[puxzkkx]

Doubt is interesting only in the way it becomes increasingly self-parodical and reductive of the source material as it goes on. Streep is entertaining in a trainwreckish sort of way and I'm sad because I really wanted to like the Adams & Davis performances (the former, far too mannered, the latter, strangely stilted & you can see the wheels click) more than I did. PSH is solid but keeps his cards close to his vest (as he should given the character, but perhaps not this much).

There's no art involved in this film whatsoever. It is a shameless, calculated ploy for awards consideration, from the Meryl Streep casting down to the irritatingly self-referential character "entrances" and the reality-TV-esque zooms whenever a character is about to say something important. Every image seems carefully staged to be used in a pre-release publicity still and every line is delivered as if competing for use in the trailer. Everything is turned to an extreme - Meryl Streep aims not to be just a bitchy nun, but the bitchiest nun ever. PSH is not just a friendly priest, but the friendliest priest ever. Amy Adams is not just an innocent schoolmarm, but the most impossibly innocent schoolmarm the world has ever seen. The only thing setting this apart from something like "Amelia" is the presence of a slightly interesting ethical dilemma at the film's core. It's just as much of a hack work as something like "Transformers" or "G.I. Joe", just in a different way.

You might have your certainty, you might have your doubts, but most likely you just won't care...

[foggy eyes]

As for What Time Is It There? being his weakest film, not for me! It's sitting just above Dragon Inn in my top ten. Looks like foggy eyes and me are going to have to indulge in some Greco-Roman wrestling to settle these critical matters!

Now that would be worth making a long-distance flight for!

What Time.. is like a "placeholder" for the films that follow for me - Dragon, Inn + Wayward Cloud really push Tsai's style/ideas in new directions, and Sleep Alone is more comfortably back in that familiar rhythm... Have to agree about Skywalk too - it's a perfectly-formed short.

[tagimaucia]

In the Loop was fun - great cast, lots of funny one-liners, a breeze to watch - but it really would have worked better as a miniseries. Watching it was like watching four eps of a TV show one after another. Not to mention I've seen themes like this treated in this exact same way in various TV series... the NZ series 'The Pretender' is an example.

I'd give best in show honours to Gina McKee, whose drollery was perfectly timed and hilarious. Funny enough the only performance I really didn't respond to was Peter Capaldi's all-bark no-bite one.
Loved Kennedy, Chlumsky, Hollander as well.

Definitely make an effort to seek out the first season and the two 1-hour specials of The Thick Of It if you liked In The Loop at all, as they're much better in my opinion. Unfortunately the current season has been very mediocre so far though.

[Mise En Scene]

Still Walking - What a lovely film. Kore-eda will have two films in my top twenty maybe even in the top ten - this and Nobody Knows. The humor really made this film for me. I got a couple of questions. Ryota's stepson is a little old to share a bath with Ryota, no? And, regarding the rice dish that was mixed with vegetables which looked yummy: 1) does anyone remember what the vegetables were? and 2) would the rice happen to be sushi rice?

[Murdoch]

Hop - Can anybody defend this film? Standaert shows me that not only is he the next Steven Spielberg, but also that he believes that terrorism is cool as long as no one gets hurt. From its Schindler's List-like use of color in the BIG revelatory moment and its ridiculous happy ending, ugh. Now I have a headache from going over this film in my head, just awful.

[Michael Kerpan]

Still Walking - What a lovely film. Kore-eda will have two films in my top twenty maybe even in the top ten - this and Nobody Knows. The humor really made this film for me. I got a couple of questions. Ryota's stepson is a little old to share a bath with Ryota, no? And, regarding the rice dish that was mixed with vegetables which looked yummy: 1) does anyone remember what the vegetables were? and 2) would the rice happen to be sushi rice?

I actually like Distance and Hana even more than Nobody Knows (but I like Still Walking most of Kore'eda's films -- of THIS decade).

No, since bunches of same sex buddies -- and even perfect strangers -- will share public baths, the man and his step-son bathing together is not weird, just normal family bonding. In Miyazaki's Totoro, one sees a father and his two daughters bathing together in a big family tub.

[thirtyframesasecond]

Anyone else going to stick up for Spike Lee's 'Bamboozled'? Sure, it's a bit of a mess and loses focus, but the intent of the satire is genuine and impassioned, and Lee makes numerous relevant points about perceptions of race in the media. The final montage of such barefaced racism in early Hollywood films really brings it all home.

[Mise En Scene]

Still Walking - What a lovely film. Kore-eda will have two films in my top twenty maybe even in the top ten - this and Nobody Knows. The humor really made this film for me. I got a couple of questions. Ryota's stepson is a little old to share a bath with Ryota, no?

No, since bunches of same sex buddies -- and even perfect strangers -- will share public baths, the man and his step-son bathing together is not weird, just normal family bonding. In Miyazaki's Totoro, one sees a father and his two daughters bathing together in a big family tub.

I see. Thanks for clearing that up.

[colinr0380]

Anyone else going to stick up for Spike Lee's 'Bamboozled'? Sure, it's a bit of a mess and loses focus, but the intent of the satire is genuine and impassioned, and Lee makes numerous relevant points about perceptions of race in the media. The final montage of such barefaced racism in early Hollywood films really brings it all home.

Here was an Onion My Year of Flops entry on the film. I've actually only seen it in its one British television showing so far, which also featured a sign language person in the corner of the screen doing the simultaneous translating. I don't know if some of the routines were made better or worse by the (white) interpreter straight facedly mimicing some of the on screen routines and letting me know the signed gestures for the more inflammatory epithets! It certainly made the experience more bizarre!

It's not from this decade, but a great film to watch if you were interested in the final montage is Classified X or, as I like to think of it, a personal journey through racial stereotyping with Melvin Van Peebles!