Kino

[nsps]

I'm not sure if "Well, at least you got a response" even applies here. But hey, they could've just ignored the email and left you wondering.

[Tommaso]

Well, I really wanted to bring this back to a more positive note by mentioning that the Avantgarde Vol.3 set now has its own page on the Kino site (might have been up for awhile, but I didn't see it mentioned here), when I read this little detail:

RIEN QUE LES HEURES
(Nothing But Time)
US 1926 B&W 46 Min.
Dir: Alberto Cavalcanti
Music by Larry Marotta

I hope everyone still remembers what he did to Dulac on Vol.1. Expect a wonderful city symphony accompanied by the most insipid guitar strumming imaginable, then. You better start searching for your Satie cds already.

[domino harvey]

Of course, "no..." would've been better.

That's what you get from replacing the original intertitles.

Awesome =D>

[MichaelB]

Beaver on The General Blu-ray - sounds like a bit of a triumph. Best news for me is that it's region-free.

[broadwayrock]

Hate to be a bit of a naysayer, but something seems off with the HD transfer.....edge enhancement perhaps?

Taken from the final capture on the page and zoomed 500%


There are some screens that look good while some look very processed with a thick black outline on the edges.

[Tribe]

Hate to be a bit of a naysayer, but something seems off with the HD transfer.....edge enhancement perhaps?

Not trying to be a smart ass, but who watches anything zoomed in 500%? Does analyzing minutiae like this tell us anything about the bigger picture?

[MichaelB]

Not trying to be a smart ass, but who watches anything zoomed in 500%? Does analyzing minutiae like this tell us anything about the bigger picture?

Well, it potentially tells us something about the bigger picture, but I suspect it'll look just fine on my 42" plasma.

[broadwayrock]

Not trying to be a smart ass, but who watches anything zoomed in 500%? Does analyzing minutiae like this tell us anything about the bigger picture?

I zoomed the image to confirm my suspicions of digital tweaking. Kino's HD transfer was not sourced from the MK2's frame by frame restoration, it s just a digital 'remastering' of the HD transfer for their 2008 DVD release.

Its certainly looks like the best version of the General out there, but im going to hold off and wait and see if someone else does a more hands off HD transfer.

[jbeall]

I'm just shocked that Gary loves a Kino release so much. I've gotta say, however, that I always expected Gary to come around on Kino long before I ever bought a blu player, but his General screencaps make me want to upgrade to blu. I guess I should first save up enough coin to buy a tv that can handle hi-def, alas!

[Gregory]

...Taken from the final capture on the page and zoomed 500%

Not trying to be a smart ass, but who watches anything zoomed in 500%? Does analyzing minutiae like this tell us anything about the bigger picture?

I'm sure the size of a Beaver screencap is less than 1/5 the size of the screen I watch movies on, taking into account the difference between the eyes and my computer vs. the distance between my seat in the living room and the screen. Maybe if I gave swo17 the measurements he'd be able to work this one out on the blackboard.

[swo17]

As a matter of fact I would, thank you very much.

[Ben Cheshire]

Its certainly looks like the best version of the General out there, but im going to hold off and wait and see if someone else does a more hands off HD transfer.

You could be right about EE: after all, its not MK2. Its impossible for something produced by Kino to actually be in completely good taste, but if you like Buster/silents on BD, you'll have to get it to see for yourself. I imagine it will be the best Buster has looked so far, until MK2 finally do it properly. I'll buy it and just sell it when i can upgrade to a French copy.

[nsps]

It is indeed a different transfer from the MK2 frame-by-frame restoration, which I saw in 4k (I think) at Cannes back when they premiered it and the Hisaishi score. The MK2 edition is much cleaner than the Kino, although both look quite good and have great detail compared to anything previously available on home media. (Also, the MK2 isn't tinted, so your preference on that front will probably come into play as well..)

[Der Spieler]

People who don't care about transfers amaze me.

I'd like to see them playing a Kino DVD on their HD TV in ten years.

[tojoed]

People who don't care about transfers amaze me.

I'd like to see them playing a Kino DVD on their HD TV in ten years.

I already play Kino DVDs on a 42" HD TV and they're fine, especially if you're interested in film and not DVD technology.

[skuhn8]

I'm just shocked that Gary loves a Kino release so much.

I was too; but now that Canada's TVA has stepped forward to introduce the wonders of interlaced blu-ray he's got a new bug-bear up north to focus on.

BTW, not to steal MOC's well-deserved thunder, but am i the only one to view that comparison between the Kino and MOC Dr. Mabuse and come away appreciating just how good of a job Kino did nearly five years ago. MOC is better, but I think the difference will be negligible in motion.

[MichaelB]

I was too; but now that Canada's TVA has stepped forward to introduce the wonders of interlaced blu-ray he's got a new bug-bear up north to focus on.

Nothing new for me - one of the very first Blu-rays I bought ('The Magic Flute') was interlaced. I suspect this is true of quite a few releases that were originally made for broadcast HD.

[skuhn8]

I was too; but now that Canada's TVA has stepped forward to introduce the wonders of interlaced blu-ray he's got a new bug-bear up north to focus on.

Nothing new for me - one of the very first Blu-rays I bought ('The Magic Flute') was interlaced. I suspect this is true of quite a few releases that were originally made for broadcast HD.

I believe there's a technical justification in those instances. But for some reason TVA is doing this on mainstream film fare that is being released progressive just south of the border. Example: Whatever Works

[HerrSchreck]

I also think that Kino's Finanzen Grossherzogs looks better than the MoC which suffers from garish tinting and contrast boosting which turns details very mottled and chunky looking.

Its certainly looks like the best version of the General out there, but im going to hold off and wait and see if someone else does a more hands off HD transfer.

Its impossible for something produced by Kino to actually be in completely good taste.

What in god's name is that supposed to mean? What an utterly off-base statement... Kino has finally over the past 2 yrs gotten their act together as far as the complaints of technophiles have been concerned re PAL/NTSC viz European sourced silents, and they still get slammed for no discernable reason-- because it's "Not In Good Taste"? What the hell is THAT?

It's not good for no other reason that "it's not the MK2"? It's a pristine transfer that's been struck from the original camera negative, that has obviously been fully restored, shows no damage whatsoever.. so what does the fact that they've encoded a blu from their own HD transfer from last year's SD have to do with anything? That's essentially the playbook for every Blu Ray release from CC-- they've been using their HD transfers sitting on deck off of previous SD editions for many Blu releases (like PLaytime, like Wages of Fear, Third Man, etc), so I don't see what the beef is here.

[Ben Cheshire]

Its impossible for something produced by Kino to actually be in completely good taste.

What in god's name is that supposed to mean?

It means very little when taken out of context, like your sentence here. Mine was a glib remark, not meant to be analysed, and not intending to cause offense. I was not aware any redeeming streak, as I stopped buying Kino years ago; and like everyone else six posts up, have not received my copy yet, but was speculating on Beaver's screencaps only.

For the record, the comment that spurred my remark above was about possible EE and manipulation in the General BD, which, it was my understanding, should not have been necessary if it was struck from the best print, a la Czech version on Sunrise BD. However, judging from the "Some More Blu Ray Captures" section on Gary's review, detail looks tremendous, which would make my comment above completely out of line, as you say; and, when my copy arrives, I certainly hope our fears were wrong.

[HerrSchreck]

I wasn't taking it out of context, as it simply had no context-- and if anything I was asking very simply for the context, and giving you the opportunity to tell us what it was that you meant. Thus the request for elaboration. There are a good many (silent film fans in particular) who deeply appreciate this label and all they've done for silent film who would be confused by the comment about "taste".

[Blood Pie]

I wasn't taking it out of context, as it simply had no context-- and if anything I was asking very simply for the context, and giving you the opportunity to tell us what it was that you meant. Thus the request for elaboration. There are a good many (silent film fans in particular) who deeply appreciate this label and all they've done for silent film who would be confused by the comment about "taste".

The context was in reference to poor taste in how they handle encodes and as he pointed out he was being somewhat sarcastic and didn't intend for you to pick it apart on a literal level.

That being said, based on the screencap in this thread something clearly is not right with the General BD transfer and considering Kino have been at this for quite some time they should know better than to digitally manipulate titles that are going to be purchased mainly by cinephiles who don't appreciate the application of DNR or EE or whatever is causing those thick black lines. Not to mention that a vastly superior master is out there...

Just because a said company releases obscure or often overlooked titles doesn't mean they are above reproach.

[Michael Kerpan]

Just because a said company releases obscure or often overlooked titles doesn't mean they are above reproach.

Not being "above reproach" and not being able to do anything "in completely good taste" don't mean anything like the same sort of thing.

[Blood Pie]

Just because a said company releases obscure or often overlooked titles doesn't mean they are above reproach.

Not being "above reproach" and not being able to do anything "in completely good taste" don't mean anything like the same sort of thing.

And we all know that isn't what he meant when he said it so its moot. And I would say Kino's general history of how they handled the technical side of their releases was in poor taste.

[Sloper]

I love Kino, don't care about edge enhancement and am very happy with my by-all-accounts-a-bit-crap Network set of Keaton films - as long as The General has the Carl Davis score (well done Kino for finally releasing this - now how about a decent accompaniment for Sherlock Jr?), I'm happy.

But I don't see what was so controversial about Ben's remark. I mean I'm glad Schreck came in and pointed out how much Kino have improved in recent years, and I'm glad they're being defended, but Ben was clearly reacting to broadwayrock's screencap on the previous page. For people who care about that sort of thing (as a lot of cinephiles on this forum and elsewhere do) this must be a frustrating blip in what is an otherwise perfect release, which seemed to be Ben's point.

And even if Kino's packaging design no longer seems to be modelled directly on vomit, their practice of replacing original intertitles on foreign films is, even to my uncritical eye, a major lapse in taste.

EDIT: on further investigation, I see they do sometimes include original intertitles - sorry Kino! And don't eat me, Schreck...