2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 2)

[GringoTex]

Black Book - How did every film reviewer in the country fail to point out that not only did Verhoeven already do what Tarantino tried to do in Inglourious Basterds, but he also did it a hell of a lot better?

[Murdoch]

Black Book - How did every film reviewer in the country fail to point out that not only did Verhoeven already do what Tarantino tried to do in Inglourious Basterds, but he also did it a hell of a lot better?

Agreed, I liked how at the end the Allies become the targets of Verhoeven - i.e. women forced to stand in public squares with signs declaring them as "Nazi whores" while crowds taunt them.

[knives]

I've been saying that all week, but no one else believes me. When I first saw that last act, specifically the strip scene and the end I was more morally shocked then I had ever been. I actually find it funny that the IB ending is basically a gorier remake of that ending. I also love the lead performance which shows so much emotion and character. She turns her into a real person.

[knives]

Big Fan
In many respects The Wrestler is the better film, and I'll have to see this one again to decide if I prefer it, but it is better in one important aspect, subtlety. There's no scene in the movie spelling out the metaphor which I loved. The directing is a little stale, but for a first time unprofessional he did pretty decent. As for the metaphor itself I got a bit of a Binky Brown vibe, but I'm not sure if that was intentional. Maybe a more learned member could come up with something. Also while I do think his directing is average he did a great boiler at the end.

[puxzkkx]

How was the Oswalt performance? I'm quite interested to see the film.

[knives]

It was great, definitely the best 'serious' turn by a comedian I've seen since Pan's Labyrinth, or for American films Eternal Sunshine. He embodied that character in a way that made him feel real, and actually I prefer it right now to the Rourke performance, but that may change.

[Michael Kerpan]

Got to see Hirokazu Kore'eda's Still Walking screened (bizarrely, IFC failed to subtiotle ANY credits -- even Kore'da's directiong credit). I can't say that this added to the impact of watching the Japanese DVD -- but nonetheless it did reconfirm the fact that this is my favorite film of the past year.

[brendanjc]

Still Walking was great, my first Kore'eda film but I'm excited to track down more. It would certainly make my list. Black Book is also very good, not sure if it'd crack the list for me. The lead makes the film, she's fantastic. I watched it immediately after seeing Lust, Caution and remember thinking Ang Lee's movie was the less thrilling and, surprinsingly, less erotic of the two given its reputation at the time.

I caught You, the Living and have been mulling it over for a few days. I found many of the sequences amusing (the standing-in-line-with-luggage part was funniest). Every moment with the brass band was great (as was much of the soundtrack) and the teenage girl's segments were pitch-perfect. The rest was more uneven, some brilliantly shot scenes like the treadmill dad seemed like a great set-up to something that was abandoned too quickly, while other segments like the dinner party / phone call, the business meeting, or the loud, complaining girlfriend dragged. Overall I don't know that I feel like the film hung together for me. Perhaps it's trying to get at something too abstract for me to wrap my brain around, but I feel like despite the obvious thought and technical finesse that went each scene it was just a shallow exercise. As a sequence of clever and well-observed vignettes it's a completely successful diversion, and little pieces will stick with me, but it only made a superficial impression. I found the similar Involuntary, while never quite hitting the brilliant highs this film did, to be a much more cohesive film.

Since I watched a swapsie I figure I'd nominate one as well. Rumba is a Belgian film about a couple who love to dance, and I implore you not to read much more into it on Netflix or elsewhere since I think some of the early plot wrinkles would be far more satisfying if you experience them with no foreknowledge, like I did seeing the film cold at a festival. This was the funniest film I've seen in the past year - I mean rolling in the aisles side-splittingly funny - of course, your mileage may vary. The film is a (mostly physical) comedy in the Charlie Chaplin vein, though I've heard people compare it to Tati as well. I find the Chaplin comparison more favorable since you really feel for the characters, which only serves to amplifies the laughs. I'm a bit colder on Tati (though I've only seen M. Hulot's Holiday, which this film references explicitly at least once). Rumba was released in region 1 just this past week and appears to be available on Netflix both on disc and for instant viewing.

[GringoTex]

Unknown Pleasures - Plays almost like a Chinese 1984 with Jia exploiting the industrial landscape to a harrowing dystopian effect. A highly disturbing, soul-shattering account of existential crisis. You get the sense the protagonists in Platform will carry on but that this younger generation is already hopelessly lost. Definitely making my list.

[Michael Kerpan]

Unknown Pleasures - Plays almost like a Chinese 1984 with Jia exploiting the industrial landscape to a harrowing dystopian effect. A highly disturbing, soul-shattering account of existential crisis. You get the sense the protagonists in Platform will carry on but that this younger generation is already hopelessly lost. Definitely making my list.

I'll be interested in your reaction to The World (which I like best -- after Platform -- though few others seem to share my evaluation).

[swo17]

I do quite like The World but I think Still Life is going to edge it out. The latter feels a little more focused to me, and I like the little surreal touches that drive home the theme of the film.

[Michael Kerpan]

I do quite like The World but I think Still Life is going to edge it out. The latter feels a little more focused to me, and I like the little surreal touches that drive home the theme of the film.

On the other hand, I like Still Life a good deal. but prefer not only Platform and World, but also Unkown Pleasures. I recently (finally) saw 24 City -- which I'd say comes fairly close to Still Life.

[swo17]

Looks like we're going to be dealing with some serious vote splitting then. That is, unless you all come around to my way of viewing things.

I should rewatch those earlier films though. Frankly, they didn't leave as much of an impression on me the one time I watched each of them, but that was a while ago, and I've since warmed to Jia considerably.

[puxzkkx]

I was kind of unimpressed by Still Life. To me, it seemed basically like an empty narrative waiting for audiences to project onto it some sort of emotional subtext that it didn't have to begin with. The surrealistic touches seemed to me indulgent and actually a distraction from the development=alienation themes that Jia seemed to be trying to put forward. To me it was only interesting as a snapshot of the contemporary Chinese rural/metropolitan divide, but that's it. It's my first Jia and I disliked it enough that I'm scared to see more of his films... am I the only one who feels this way, and are all of Jia's films like this?

Bought the DVD's of two of my swapsies - A Piece of Sky (Lienard) and Live-in Maid (Gaggero). Both are great, and both should be more widely seen. Can't wait to watch them again, but I'm working the next few nights so maybe a Sunday double feature is in order...

[Michael Kerpan]

I would say you should re-start Jia's work -- with Platform. If this does nothing for you. I'd suggest you set him aside for a few years.

[zedz]

The World will be my top Jia too, Michael, and Platform will also definitely make my list. Still Life and Unknown Pleasures aren't far behind, but I'm sure they'll be edged out.

Gringo, in terms of your explorations, have you crossed paths with Tropical Malady or Blissfully Yours yet? I don't know if they're out in R1, but Second Run has good discs of both, and they seem to be in the neighbourhood of other stuff you've liked.

[swo17]

have you crossed paths with Tropical Malady or Blissfully Yours yet?

And yet more vote splitting. Everyone knows the go-to Weerasethakul is Syndromes and a Century.

I was kind of unimpressed by Still Life. To me, it seemed basically like an empty narrative waiting for audiences to project onto it some sort of emotional subtext that it didn't have to begin with. The surrealistic touches seemed to me indulgent and actually a distraction from the development=alienation themes that Jia seemed to be trying to put forward.

If I might just briefly attempt to defend the film, I will admit, it took me a few viewings to fully appreciate Still Life, but I think there's plenty going on here without needing to project anything onto it. Development=alienation is a start, but I think more at the heart of the film is the theme of time eroding away at the past, and having to decide which pieces to salvage from the remains. Both of the film's protagonists are returning to Fengjie after many years of absence. The balance between their current selves and their past is often symbolized in the geography and architecture of the film--some buildings submerged or collapsing, while other new developments flourish (some elegant like the suspension bridge, others less desirable like that ugly modernist building). In lesser hands, I might be tempted to call all this symbolism heavy handed or distracting, but it's all just so damned pretty I can't help but get lost in it. While in a way, Still Life documents the plight of the locals, for whom this alleged progress can seem almost like an alien invasion, I find it much more universal than that, dealing with each of our struggles to hold on to something from our past.

[GringoTex]

The World will be my top Jia too, Michael, and Platform will also definitely make my list. Still Life and Unknown Pleasures aren't far behind, but I'm sure they'll be edged out.

Gringo, in terms of your explorations, have you crossed paths with Tropical Malady or Blissfully Yours yet? I don't know if they're out in R1, but Second Run has good discs of both, and they seem to be in the neighbourhood of other stuff you've liked.

Yes, I've got those two plus The World and Still Life in my Netflix queue. This decade is turning out to be better than I ever dreamed.

[zedz]

have you crossed paths with Tropical Malady or Blissfully Yours yet?

And yet more vote splitting. Everyone knows the go-to Weerasethakul is Syndromes and a Century.

Wot no Iron Pussy?

I think the vote-splitting phenomenon might turn out to be one of the most interesting aspects of this decade's vote. In many cases, this may just be because critical commonplaces haven't had the chance to calcify around the the work of many contemporary directors just yet. The canon for the 00s is still so tentative that I wonder if there's more than a dozen or so films that qualify for inclusion. It's actually refreshing to be able to approach the body of work of a major director like Jia or Denis without a well-worn road map pointing out the major landmarks and points of local interest.

[Michael Kerpan]

This decade is turning out to be better than I ever dreamed.

Ever since fairly early in the decade, I have expected this to rival the 30s and 50s (my favorite decades). When people complain of the cinema of the 00s, I just sort of shake my head.

If people are willing to consider 5 hour long animated films (divided into 13 episodes), I recommend Haibane Renmei (possibly my most loved work of the decade). If they are willing to consider a ten hour animated film (divided into 26 episodes), I can recommend Texhnolyze almost as strongly.

[Murdoch]

If people are willing to consider 5 hour long animated films (divided into 13 episodes), I recommend Haibane Renmei (possibly my most loved work of the decade)

This is a series I've been meaning to get my hands on for a while now, is this set the right one to get? It's the only one I can find with english subs.

[Michael Kerpan]

If people are willing to consider 5 hour long animated films (divided into 13 episodes), I recommend Haibane Renmei (possibly my most loved work of the decade)

This is a series I've been meaning to get my hands on for a while now, is this set the right one to get? It's the only one I can find with english subs.

Yes, this looks like the (out of priint) US box set from Geneon. We also have the nicer (but unsubbed) Japanese box set.

[Murdoch]

If people are willing to consider 5 hour long animated films (divided into 13 episodes), I recommend Haibane Renmei (possibly my most loved work of the decade)

This is a series I've been meaning to get my hands on for a while now, is this set the right one to get? It's the only one I can find with english subs.

Yes, this looks like the (out of priint) US box set from Geneon. We also have the nicer (but unsubbed) Japanese box set.

Thanks, picked it up and am looking forward to it!

[knives]

This decade is turning out to be better than I ever dreamed.

Ever since fairly early in the decade, I have expected this to rival the 30s and 50s (my favorite decades). When people complain of the cinema of the 00s, I just sort of shake my head.

If people are willing to consider 5 hour long animated films (divided into 13 episodes), I recommend Haibane Renmei (possibly my most loved work of the decade). If they are willing to consider a ten hour animated film (divided into 26 episodes), I can recommend Texhnolyze almost as strongly.

Not that I won't add them to my queue, but I believe they're not eligible under the teevee rule. Otherwise I need to seriously consider Paranoia Agent as my number two Kon instead of Tokyo Godfathers.
Also I agree that this decade has truly been excellent. The best at least since the 70s if not the 60s, which with the 20s happens to be my personal favorite.

[Michael Kerpan]

As I understand the rules -- TV mini-series ARE eligible, TV _episodes_ are not.