'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

[Yojimbo]

apart from MoC and Criterion there's also France's Carlotta equivalent: it would be great if they all got together and agreed on no, or minimal, overlap
(of course it was great that BFI didn't duplicate any of MoC's Naruse set)

[tenia]

I'm French, and, for 2009, we already had
- Ichikawa (Carlotta)
- Rossellini History Period (Carlotta)
- Pialat (Gaumont)
- Gomorrah/A Christmas Tale (Various)
- Jeanne Dielman (Gaumont I think)
- Repulsion (Studio Canal)
- The Human Condition (Carlotta)
- Wise Blood (Carlotta)
- Dodes'Kaden (Arte + Wild Side)
- The Last Metro (MK2)
- Maginificient Obsession (Carlotta, in the right ratio, he he) + A Time To Love (Carlotta)
- Mad Detective (CTV)
- L'argent (Carlotta)

So yeah, it would be a great idea that they talk between each others and try to globalize their releases.

But, of course, it's naive to think they can do it, but you have to admit, it would be so cool. Criterion + MoC + Carlotta + Wild Side. [-o<

[Yojimbo]

yeah, Wild Side is another great French label: was the Uchida box-set their's?
(with the marvellous 'Bloody Spear at Mount Fuji'?)
and the great Shaw Brothers set?
(albeit without the great bad English dubbing)

[Tribe]

There's millions of people who would never even think of buying Vigo.

Ain't that the truth.

[Matt]

As someone who bought both the Gaumont Vigo set and the Artificial Eye Vigo set, I would welcome a Criterion "Complete Jean Vigo." While the extras can likely not be bested, I think there is a lot of room for improvement on the transfers.

Granted, any Vigo fan worth his or her salt has already had one of the existing sets for several years, but these are films that should be in every North American cinephile's collection and in every library. For that to happen, there needs to be a region 1, NTSC DVD. I'm ashamed that anyone on this forum would, for even a moment, think that Vigo is someone Criterion need not spend time on.

And if Criterion can make Shimizu a surprise hit, they can do the same for Vigo.

[Cold Bishop]

As someone who bought both the Gaumont Vigo set and the Artificial Eye Vigo set, I would welcome a Criterion "Complete Jean Vigo." While the extras can likely not be bested, I think there is a lot of room for improvement on the transfers.

Not to mention the reinstatement of certain missing shots into L'Atalante.

[Yojimbo]

And if Criterion can make Shimizu a surprise hit, they can do the same for Vigo.

"speak of the Devil..." I'm just resuming watching the final two films in that marvellous Shimizu set

[Tribe]

And if Criterion can make Shimizu a surprise hit, they can do the same for Vigo.

So you think Vigo can be marketed to a new generation of viewers...no judgment implied there...it would be interesting if Jean Vigo's movies could find a following within a new generation of movie fans...there may be a big crowd of younger people who would be receptive to Zero and Atalante.

[Matt]

Well, no, not exactly. Perhaps it's just my occupational milieu, but I'm extremely pessimistic on the level of interest of the under-24 set in any film older than The Silence of the Lambs that doesn't feature Harrison Ford. I do think, though, that Vigo has had a pretty low profile in the US for a long while (declining steadily since the original restoration of L'Atalante made a small splash in 1990) and is ripe for rediscovery. He's far more likely to be rediscovered by arthouse-going Boomers rather than college kids, but a customer is a customer.

[Phil]

Did you go to the New Beverly to see those?

Dillinger was being advertised as using the new restored print, but how did Black Moon look?

Yep, and the Black Moon print looked good, but I don't think it was newly restored.

Yeah, I'll agree that Black Moon looked very good, even though I found it a pretty horrendous film personally. I will say though that it seems like the sort of thing that could certainly be enhanced by a quality release with in-depth supplements on the scattershot source materials and sound design, in particular.

Dillinger Is Dead on the other hand was absolutely amazing, and I will be buying the hell out of that the second it's announced.

[James]

Criterion has been kind to Louis Malle in the past, so I wouldn't be surprised if they released it.

[Jeff]

Criterion has been kind to Louis Malle in the past, so I wouldn't be surprised if they released it.

They'll get to Black Moon eventually (perhaps as an Eclipse or EAH title). They've had the rights for several years and have screened it both theatrically and on TCM a few times. It's not generally considered top-drawer Malle though, and obviously hasn't been a priority.

[James]

Criterion has been kind to Louis Malle in the past, so I wouldn't be surprised if they released it.

They'll get to Black Moon eventually (perhaps as an Eclipse or EAH title). They've had the rights for several years and have screened it both theatrically and on TCM a few times. It's not generally considered top-drawer Malle though, and obviously hasn't been a priority.

I liked it more than Elevator to the Gallows, that's for sure! I still do need to see his "better known" works like Lacombe Lucien.

[The Elegant Dandy Fop]

Well, no, not exactly. Perhaps it's just my occupational milieu, but I'm extremely pessimistic on the level of interest of the under-24 set in any film older than The Silence of the Lambs that doesn't feature Harrison Ford. I do think, though, that Vigo has had a pretty low profile in the US for a long while (declining steadily since the original restoration of L'Atalante made a small splash in 1990) and is ripe for rediscovery. He's far more likely to be rediscovered by arthouse-going Boomers rather than college kids, but a customer is a customer.

This is very true. As a 21 year-old cineaste who works at a videostore that specializes in classic and foreign cinema, all the film students who go to the nearby art schools and colleges rather rent Fight Club over Le Jour Se Leve (which isn't to discredit Fight Club). Today actually, I rang up a girl who's student ID said she was going to Art Center in Pasadena, CA and was only one year older than me. She came in specifically requesting great Japanese cinema (I have a particular fondness for Japanese films), and when I was suggesting titles by Kurosawa, Masamura, Takeshi and Mizoguchi, she turned them down. She needed something more sensational (she asked for Battle Royale, which is a film I love) and something in color. Even the prospect of seeing an exciting film like Seven Samurai was too much for her because of the running time!

The film students are sadly more interested in renting Garden State and Requiem for a Dream over any of the films from the Shimuzu set. In fact, the Shimuzu set has barely been touched. Last Year at Marienbad was popular for about a month, but now just sits there on the shelf. A customer rented Japanese Girls on the Harbor and complained how boring it was.

Some catch on though. The more contemporary films like Homicide, The Last Days of Disco and even Friends of Eddie Coyle go out often. So do established classics people are forced to see for school. Some unexpected things catch on too. The Science is Fiction set is always being rented out by young hipsters.

The truth is people in my age group just like Criterion because they released Fear and Loathing and plan to release Y Tu Mama Tambien. You're right in saying no college kid is going to rent Zero De Conduit, just because it isn't "trippy" enough. Gives you a peek about how useless film schools are at opening cinematic minds.

[zedz]

Some unexpected things catch on too. The Science is Fiction set is always being rented out by young hipsters.

Young hipsters, you say? I think you'll find they're there for Yo La Tengo rather than Painleve. Still, there are worse vices.

[FerdinandGriffon]

You're right in saying no college kid is going to rent Zero De Conduit, just because it isn't "trippy" enough.

But Zero de conduite is a very trippy film. there are images in it that far outstrip anything in Requiem, Fear and Loathing, and Fight Club in terms of sheer bizarreness. I think it's really more a question of viewer mindset then the actual content of the work. I think most film students nowadays mentally compartmentalize their viewing; films watched outside of classes can be enjoyed, films watched inside of classrooms are "academic" and there to be analyzed, not enjoyed. Widespread cultural prejudices about foreign and B+W film are so drilled into them that there's a mental block preventing any genuine enjoyment. It has nothing at all to do with the films themselves.

[The Elegant Dandy Fop]

I think it's really more a question of viewer mindset then the actual content of the work. I think most film students nowadays mentally compartmentalize their viewing; films watched outside of classes can be enjoyed, films watched inside of classrooms are "academic" and there to be analyzed, not enjoyed. Widespread cultural prejudices about foreign and B+W film are so drilled into them that there's a mental block preventing any genuine enjoyment. It has nothing at all to do with the films themselves.

That's exactly my problem too. Classics like Citizen Kane, Breathless and Rashomon are treated almost like artifacts to be studied and carefully dissected instead of cinema that's still alive waiting to be viewed.

[tojoed]

Granted, any Vigo fan worth his or her salt has already had one of the existing sets for several years, but these are films that should be in every North American cinephile's collection and in every library. For that to happen, there needs to be a region 1, NTSC DVD. I'm ashamed that anyone on this forum would, for even a moment, think that Vigo is someone Criterion need not spend time on.

You make a good point. I was being purely selfish, as usual.

[Flike]

I'm surprised how candid they are on the Facebook. Know several are already keeping track (and posting), but in the last 24 hours they've said whatever Altman they were working on fell through and that the Apu Trilogy has, "... been a long haul, but we're getting closer..."

[tenia]

yeah, Wild Side is another great French label: was the Uchida box-set their's?
(with the marvellous 'Bloody Spear at Mount Fuji'?)
and the great Shaw Brothers set?
(albeit without the great bad English dubbing)

Totally. They released a Uchida box, a Shinoda, a Naruse, but also the Misumi's Sword Trilogy and a 36th Chamber box set. They did a really great job on Japanese movies, but they also did a nice job on Lang's movies, like the Indian diptyque (in a 5-discs box + booklet), but they also did a 3-discs Welles' Hamlet + booklet, etc etc.

And yes, they also released around 80 Shaw Brothers and 15 Zatoichi.

Nowadays, I don't really like what they're doing (only being released in FNAC, not enough boxsets or collectors editions, real underground movies, etc). They released some Kazan (The Visitors), Electra Glide In Blue, but also some 60's spaghettis westerns (El Mercenario), and just released The Offence and Odds Against Tomorrow, but apart from these ones, they're planning to release about 25 japanese soft 'roman porno' ('novels porn'). Honestly, I don't know how many they will sell, but probably very very few.

The film students are sadly more interested in renting Garden State and Requiem for a Dream over any of the films from the Shimuzu set. In fact, the Shimuzu set has barely been touched. Last Year at Marienbad was popular for about a month, but now just sits there on the shelf. A customer rented Japanese Girls on the Harbor and complained how boring it was.

I'm 22, not even a art student (I'm in a chemistry engineer school, quite the opposite) and at the complete opposite of the 'college kids' you're describing. On my shelf are a about 10 Carlottas (Berlin Alexanderplatz, and a Sirk boxset), the massive MK2 Fritz Lang box, The blue Angel, some Criterions like the Cassavetes boxset and Children Of Paradise, and 2 Powell / Pressburger.
But there are also Wild At Heart, Fight Club, Hot Fuzz, The Fall, Paprika and the first 3 seasons of Robot Chicken.

They're maybe not that interested in cinema itself, but more in movies. In my mind, there is a great difference. So I totally agree with you about the usefulness of films school. But, as I said, if they were so useful, it would be call 'cinema school'.

These young people aren't probably as open-minded as they think they are, and that's probably the biggest problem. But maybe they aren't told enough of movies they won't see by themselves, but more of movies they already know. I mean, about these Japanese girl, she comes for advice, but in fact, she already knows what she want to see, and doesn't even listen to your advices. And, about the 'compartimenting', one of the movies I have a particular sweetness to is Ali : Fear eat the soul. Thanks to my French teacher who showed it to us in class when I was 10.
I really find unbelievable that people who can do such compartimenting can also call themselves 'open-minded'.

I try at my school to share my 'knowledge' about classic, and it works. Simply knowing my friends' tastes and talking with them, raising an interest for a movie that fit their tastes, that's all I have to do. And Casablanca, Citizen Kane, Suspiria, Kagemusha, these are movies they now have seen, and most of the time, loved. But, believe me, my friends are also people fond of Transformers, Gossip Girl and Pimp My Ride.

[Izo]

Per Facebook: No plans for any Jacques Tourneur. Not surprising, but I wanted to ask anyway. I think an Eclipse set of some of his films would be wonderful.

[Mr. Ned]

The truth is people in my age group just like Criterion because they released Fear and Loathing and plan to release Y Tu Mama Tambien. You're right in saying no college kid is going to rent Zero De Conduit, just because it isn't "trippy" enough. Gives you a peek about how useless film schools are at opening cinematic minds.

There are of course outliers to this sentiment; we are the same age and I go to school on the east coast and have found the dull and sensationally degrading experience of liberal arts education a perfect environment for "opening cinematic minds," as you put it. I get much more gratification watching all sorts of movies in our library kioskes or in the projection room no one uses in the English building than any party or festivity I've ever been to at this college. I rented Zero De Conduit, not because of its trippiness or lack thereof, but because it was there waiting for me to watch it. Cinema is only as alive as the people watching it; I'm not saying going to school in an atmosphere where I have to actively seek out something to keep my life cycle turning is better than film school, but it is a little nutty to throw all of us young cineastes to the wolves because some hipster doofuses would rather watch Joe Mantegna babble riduclous word-plays instead of settling in for a Vigo Friday Night. Young cine-lovers in your vein are out there...you've just got to seek 'em out.

[swo17]

On the Criterion Facebook page, someone asked about the status of The Cook, the Thief, His Wife & Her Lover. The response:

Not looking good at the moment...

[tenia]

The truth is people in my age group just like Criterion because they released Fear and Loathing and plan to release Y Tu Mama Tambien. You're right in saying no college kid is going to rent Zero De Conduit, just because it isn't "trippy" enough. Gives you a peek about how useless film schools are at opening cinematic minds.

There are of course outliers to this sentiment; we are the same age and I go to school on the east coast and have found the dull and sensationally degrading experience of liberal arts education a perfect environment for "opening cinematic minds," as you put it. I get much more gratification watching all sorts of movies in our library kioskes or in the projection room no one uses in the English building than any party or festivity I've ever been to at this college. I rented Zero De Conduit, not because of its trippiness or lack thereof, but because it was there waiting for me to watch it. Cinema is only as alive as the people watching it; I'm not saying going to school in an atmosphere where I have to actively seek out something to keep my life cycle turning is better than film school, but it is a little nutty to throw all of us young cineastes to the wolves because some hipster doofuses would rather watch Joe Mantegna babble riduclous word-plays instead of settling in for a Vigo Friday Night. Young cine-lovers in your vein are out there...you've just got to seek 'em out.

As I said just before, I totally agree with you.
Young hipsters interested only by Transformers and Fear and Loathing are kind of a bad cliché.

[aox]

I don't know a single hipster that likes or cares about Transformers, and I am in my 20s and spend most of my time in Williamsburg, Bushwick, and Ft. Greene.