2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 2)

An ongoing project to survey the best films of individual decades, genres, and filmmakers
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Sloper
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 2:06 am

Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#426 Post by Sloper »

I saw Punch-Drunk Love for the first time last night - I know it gets a lot of love around here and I'm just pissing in the sea, but I wanted to say how much I loved it. Usually I feel that Anderson's films are fascinating, ambitious (and very entertaining) near-misses, although as far as I remember Hard Eight was pretty much all there. But this one never seems to put a foot wrong. Telling a story that's moving and endearing without slipping into mawkish sentiment is one of the hardest things to pull off, and films about how nice love is are normally bad, even if they're sincere. But this one combines total conviction with an easy mastery of the film-making craft, and it really is one of the best films about love this cynical curmudgeon has ever seen.
Perkins Cobb wrote:It's one of those self-indulgent intellectual fanboy-bait movies where the socially inept loser guy gets (or at least has a chance with) the adorable, quirky, lonely hottie. You know, like in real life. Line up all of those movies from the last decade (and there are a ton) and you'll find a lot of overrated critical darlings in which a (youngish, white, male) director who's capable of better takes the easy way out.
Not a totally unfair comment, and normally I do hate that particular cliché, but I think this inept loser was portrayed with enough intelligence and originality to make it work. What I loved most about the film, I think, was its sheer rage: among other things this is an incredibly angry film. That sequence where Barry is being heckled by his sister on one side and 'Georgia' on the other is almost unbearably tense - and the freak-outs are scary and exhilerating. That said, although the violence, when it comes, is cathartic, I was impressed that Anderson knew when to stop - he takes quite a risk handling the climax the way he does, but I thought the risk paid off.

And after 84 minutes, when the credits rolled, I felt like I'd just watched a five-minute short. If only Anderson were always this economical!
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puxzkkx
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:33 am

Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#427 Post by puxzkkx »

For fans of a well-made romantic comedy-drama, I suggest Philippe Lioret's Mademoiselle, which is almost a perfect romantic film. Lioret shows a fantastic grasp of dramatic light and shade, evoking fathoms of emotion in, say, a single shot or a throwaway line. Sandrine Bonnaire is luminous and has never been more beautiful on-screen. And the ending is lovely, saying so much with so little. I recommend this wholeheartedly.
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zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:24 pm

Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#428 Post by zedz »

The Holy Girl – Great film, headed for my shortlist. Every shot is inscribed with personality and psychology, and you realise just how rare that quality is with a lot of emerging filmmakers, including some of those striving for precisely that effect. There’s a daunting construction of ideas in the film, but at the same time Martel leaves a lot of leeway for flowing naturalism. Although the situations and dilemmas of the characters were for the most part remote from my own experience (I’ve never been molested in front of a theremin, for example) there was an awful lot in their behaviour that I recognised and hadn’t seen captured in many other films.

Now I need to see The Headless Woman.

11’09”01 – Finally bit the bullet on this, and it’s as underwhelming as I’d been warned. The portentous opening intro brags about ‘no censorship’. Fair enough, but a bit of editorial oversight might have relieved the repetition. The majority of the pieces boil down to “oh yeah, that happened to us too” oneupmanship: Makhmalbaf, Chahine, Tanovic, Loach, Gitai. It may be a valid response to what happened, but it’s also about the shallowest response imaginable. These segments tend to be clunkily didactic. Loach is the worst offender in this regard: the most face-slappingly direct and the most effective. If you wanted one of these in the mix, this was the one to go for, but piling up the same obvious message over and over again is pointless.

Inarritu’s notorious segment is outrageously pretentious, exploitative and obnoxious, but at least it’s an attempt to actually deal with the enormity of the attack. And you know you’re in trouble when one of the stand-out segments of your portmanteau film is by Mira Nair. Her sketch is nothing particularly special, but the idea is pertinent and she doesn’t screw it up.

This collection of second- and third-rate auteurs trying to deal with a theme that’s too pointedly political reminded me of a similarly misguided and repetitive (and on balance probably worse) collection of short anti-landmine films from the late 90s. I don’t know what happened to them, and imdb doesn’t seem to have any trace of their existence, but I know that Chahine was part of that trainwreck too.

There’s one moment of greatness in the compilation, and it comes from the only first-rate director involved, Shohei Imamura. It’s – probably not coincidentally – the segment that addresses the topic at hand most obliquely, and it demonstrates filmmaking virtues that the others conspicuously lack: concision (covers the ground of half a feature, as opposed to the excruciatingly drawn-out Sean Penn gimmick that precedes it) and humility. Where so many other filmmakers were concerned with proclaiming shared victimhood, Imamura has the maturity to make a film about shared culpability. It’s far more an Imamura film than a segment of this particular project, and it adds one last entry to the director’s extensive human bestiary – a man who has transformed himself into a snake. It makes for a strong, fitting final testament from one of the great filmmakers.
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puxzkkx
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#429 Post by puxzkkx »

Just saw Orphan, and liked it. More thoughts here.

It won't make my list, but its a great example of its (limited) genre.
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GringoTex
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:57 am

Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#430 Post by GringoTex »

The Host - I don't like monster movies so this won't make my list, but it's very intelligent, very well made. I now plan to check out the rest of Joon-ho Bong's films.
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Michael Kerpan
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#431 Post by Michael Kerpan »

GringoTex wrote:The Host - I don't like monster movies so this won't make my list, but it's very intelligent, very well made. I now plan to check out the rest of Joon-ho Bong's films.
I don't consider this a "monster movie" -- but rather a "family drama" that just happens to have a monsters as the plot's main stressor (rather than disease or loss of a job -- or need to marry off a daughter). ;~}
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knives
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#432 Post by knives »

Michael Kerpan wrote:
GringoTex wrote:The Host - I don't like monster movies so this won't make my list, but it's very intelligent, very well made. I now plan to check out the rest of Joon-ho Bong's films.
I don't consider this a "monster movie" -- but rather a "family drama" that just happens to have a monsters as the plot's main stressor (rather than disease or loss of a job -- or need to marry off a daughter). ;~}
Not only that, put the fun way he goes about the political stuff is also very interesting. You should see Memories of a Murder though. It is one of the best of the decade and manages to do a lot of what The Host does, but better. It's also one of the funniest of the decade.
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zedz
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#433 Post by zedz »

Michael Kerpan wrote:I don't consider this a "monster movie" -- but rather a "family drama" that just happens to have a monsters as the plot's main stressor (rather than disease or loss of a job -- or need to marry off a daughter). ;~}
I consider it a monster movie, and a great one, but it's also a lot of other things. I agree that Memories of Murder should be your next stop. One of the smartest serial killer films in a long, longtime.

My contribution:

Old Joy – If we’re not going to get a real Monte Hellman film this decade, this will have to do. America has a strand of genuine regional filmmaking that I like a lot more than the generic relationship indies or, in most cases, intended art films – more Mala Noche than Good Will Hunting or Last Days. There’s a bunch of good, or at least interesting films in this vein - Police Beat, Goodbye Solo, David Gordon Green’s stuff (though he does overlap with various other veins of indie-dom, with varying degrees of success) – and Old Joy is one of the best.

Reichhardt is a great recorder of character and behaviour, and she knows that behaviour can be used to conceal as well as reveal character, and in this film she leaves plenty of room around the characters and the events for the viewer to inhabit. The same couldn’t be said about the effective, but much more tendentious, Wendy and Lucy. And even though Lucy is ‘elevated’ to the level of plot device in the later film, it’s Old Joy which is the truly great dog film.

Odd side note: Kino’s disc of this must boast the sparsest commentary ever recorded. I actually put this on to hear the commentary but it turned into a default straight viewing, the comments were so few and far between (maybe two or three sentences in the last quarter hour of a seventy minute film, for instance). The achievement becomes even more perversely impressive when you consider that it’s not a solo commentary, but involves both Reichhardt and her DOP, and a facilitator, who confesses at the top of the track that he doesn’t exactly understand what facilitation entails. Baby, you ain’t kidding. I hope Kino didn’t pay this clown in advance.
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puxzkkx
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#434 Post by puxzkkx »

Saw Inglourious Basterds and can't really find words to express its suckage. Needless to say, it won't make my list. Seeing District 9 tonight.

Hopefully people don't go all out on 09 films for this list before their critical response is allowed to ferment a bit.
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domino harvey
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#435 Post by domino harvey »

It's pretty normal for a person to list a film they saw just one day prior, so what's the difference
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puxzkkx
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:33 am

Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#436 Post by puxzkkx »

I guess you're right.

Saw District 9 last night. It was entertaining - the direction was taut and the effects were wonderful, and I enjoyed Copley's lead performance - but it leans so heavily on deus ex machina in its climactic moments so that the thing becomes a rather rote sci-fi actioner at 3/4 of the way through. Blomkamp seems unable to reconcile his urge to make a "huge-guns-blow-stuff-up, cheesy-emotional-moments" flick with his aspirations towards higher social commentary (witness the 'docudrama' segments that are clumsily interwoven). In fact, politically, the film is written in big letters on a baby's building blocks. The sentimentality and in-your-face earnestness of the "aliens are more human than humans" message got old real fast, and I found myself wishing for some light & shade in the execution of Blomkamp's message. Scenes like the weapons company
Spoiler
using Prawns as target practice
and the villain saying "I FUCKIN LOVE KILLIN PRAWNS" make it seem like Blomkamp is unwilling to trust his audience's intelligence.
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GringoTex
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#437 Post by GringoTex »

Woman on the Beach - My first Hong film and he's a superb stylist. Is there anybody else today who still utilizes the almighty zoom as a regular part of their cinematic arsenal? The hand held camera masks mise-en-scene; the zoom emphasizes it. That's why only the best can effectively use the zoom. Really enjoyed the film, although it was spending two hours with an insufferable passive-aggressive assclown. It also seemed to be commenting on a xenophobic sexism that apparently runs through Korean men that I really didn't understand. But mostly I just luxuriated in the mise-en-scene. Really looking forward to the rest of Hong's films.
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Michael Kerpan
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#438 Post by Michael Kerpan »

Hong never really used zooming prior to Tale of Cinema.

I am biased when it comes to Hong -- I love all his films (though have yet to see his last two -- which are still not available yet -- though his latest is due out on DVD in Korea soon).

I love the transfer of focus in WotB from the guy (a splendid actor, by the way) at the start -- to the woman mid-way through. And I enjoyed the (tentative) bonding of the two main women characters before all was said and done (nothing like this in any prior Hong film).

I may still love Virgin Stripped Bare By Her Bachelors a tiny bit more -- but Women on the Beach is _very_ close behind.
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Murdoch
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#439 Post by Murdoch »

Agreed on WotB, it will definitely make my top ten. I love how the two characters meet each other in the beginning, and the Rohmer-like feel of the film, it all felt very natural while also showing Hong's talent for composing a shot.
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zedz
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#440 Post by zedz »

Great to see another Hong convert, and second Michael's Virgin as your next port of call. If the Korean box comprising Virgin, Kangwon Province and The Day a Pig Fell into the Well is still in print, it's worth its weight in gold.
EDIT: No sign of it on yesasia, but the three films are all individually available, and Like You Know It All seems to be out on DVD within the fortnight.

One more swapsie for me (and I'm halfway through another - the longest thing I've watched for this project so far):

The Low Down – A film whose director I only knew from a couple of music videos (most notably Radiohead’s overhyped ‘Just’). A pleasant little naturalist romantic drama with good performances and enough stylistic reach to keep things interesting. It took a while to get over the massive distraction of lead Aidan Gillen’s Tommy Carcetti baggage, but that’s not the film’s fault.

The film attempts in a lot of different ways to capture or represent its characters’ subjectivity – tiny fragments of slow motion, jump cuts, inserting stills into traditional shot / reverse-shot conversations, racking focus to signal a character’s distraction – but it’s somewhat hit and miss. For every satisfying grace note, there’s a thudding powerchord of cliché, so the technique never coalesces into a convincing style (cf. Wong Kar-wai), and the story and characters themselves don’t carry enough weight to put it over. Still, an enjoyable enough film that has a lot more life and shows a lot more promise than countless other British comedies and dramas of the decade.
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Yojimbo
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#441 Post by Yojimbo »

zedz wrote:The Piano Tuner of Earthquakes – This film is wall-to-wall stunning visuals, a brilliant combination of the Quays’ animation with live action. The plot involves the titular piano tuner repairing a series of eerie automata on a mysterious (Bocklin-inspired) Isle of the Dead in preparation for some esoteric cataclysm (eclipse, earthquake), and the automata, the disasters and the island itself are all Quay miniatures inhabited by actors rather than puppets. It’s also a film that’s very effectively built around effects of light: dazzling, diffused sunlight; sinister, silvery moonlight; dark, candlelit chiaroscuro; flitting, flickering reflections.

So as a longform visual poem, the film is a consistently dazzling success. As a dramatic feature, it works less well. The weird, referential plot is conveyed in highly stylised language of a kind that’s extremely hard to pull off effectively, and it has to be delivered by actors for whom English is a second language (with the exception of Amira Casar, who has the least to say). Fassbinder veteran Gottfried John works beautifully with the material, and I suspect the heightened, dislocated, sinister edge to his performance is what the Quays were striving for, but lead Cesar Sarachu lets the material drop to the ground. He seems to be putting all of his effort into just getting the lines out, and there’s little energy left for any other shadings. He’s got the right look, but there’s no performance to back it up. The two women fall somewhere in between, but all that inconsistency makes it hard to care about the narrative.

Nevertheless, it makes for quite a sensory experience, and any fans of Institut Benjamenta or the brothers’ amazing 80s shorts should definitely track it down.
I probably bought this about three years ago and STILL haven't gotten around to watching it yet - thats not a record for me!,- although you might just have persuaded me to nudge it into my Top 100 of 'must watch soons' :)
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GringoTex
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#442 Post by GringoTex »

Woman is the Future of Man - Whereby WOTB utilized the offscreen expanse of the ocean as a steam valve, this one corners and traps you into ever more tight and claustrophobic spaces with no release. The settings literally get smaller as the film progresses. If WOTB is Hong's Rohmer, this is his Cassavetes. Dude gets blow jobs from his old girl friend AND one of his students in the same day and he still feels like a loser- is there a director working today with more honesty about male sexual politics?

The New Yorker dvd had a surprise intro by Scorsese, as well as a making-of featurette that shows Hong micro-managing every single aspect of mise-en-scene with Bressonian control. He even does his actors' hair!


The Lives of Others - Can't believe how bad and overcooked and unimaginative this is. There's nothing more boring than artists nailing themselves to the cross in their own artwork, and this has it in spades.
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Michael Kerpan
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#443 Post by Michael Kerpan »

Woman Is the Future of Man is definitely grimmer (and more closed in) than Woman on the Beach. Some say Hong's films are sexist, I think he mercilessly punctures male chauvinism (while not presenting his female characters as saints or innocents -- which tends to confuse some people).
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knives
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#444 Post by knives »

GringoTex wrote: The Lives of Others - Can't believe how bad and overcooked and unimaginative this is. There's nothing more boring than artists nailing themselves to the cross in their own artwork, and this has it in spades.
Glad I'm not alone, thought I was crazy in thinking that movie is flawed. I absolutely hated that the movie carries itself like it is revealing some hidden truth when it barely is above a made for teevee movie. It doesn't say anything that has been said better a million times before, a glorified Schindler's List.
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puxzkkx
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#445 Post by puxzkkx »

Count me in the club - I also hated The Lives of Others. Such by-the-numbers execution and anemic direction. The film doesn't deserve such a good central performance - its a wonder that Muhe was able to succeed at all since every bathetic story twist seemed like a screenwriterly trap ready to sabotage his attempts at creating a human, lived-in character
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LQ
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#446 Post by LQ »

puxzkkx wrote:Saw District 9 last night. It was entertaining - the direction was taut and the effects were wonderful, and I enjoyed Copley's lead performance - but it leans so heavily on deus ex machina in its climactic moments so that the thing becomes a rather rote sci-fi actioner at 3/4 of the way through. Blomkamp seems unable to reconcile his urge to make a "huge-guns-blow-stuff-up, cheesy-emotional-moments" flick with his aspirations towards higher social commentary (witness the 'docudrama' segments that are clumsily interwoven). In fact, politically, the film is written in big letters on a baby's building blocks. The sentimentality and in-your-face earnestness of the "aliens are more human than humans" message got old real fast, and I found myself wishing for some light & shade in the execution of Blomkamp's message.
puxzkkx, thanks for articulating the problems of the film. Although I enjoyed it, I was disappointed with the ending scenes and frankly a little surprised at the intense praise it got. Fantastic premise and start, but it went downhill.

Speaking of current theatrical releases, I had the pleasure of seeing The Beaches of Agnès yesterday and that will certainly made my list. Oh how I love Agnès Varda. The most whimsical, curious, compassionate, and wise woman in cinema. I grinned, laughed and sniffled in turn as she worked her way from her childhood to present day, recounting her remarkable life, her accomplishments and friendships and her deep love for Demy. The bits in which she interacts with Chris Marker, hiding behind the guise of Guillaume-en-Egypte especially put a huge smile on my face. (bantering big orange cartoon cats, always funny). But when she cries onscreen about all her friends & collaborators dead and gone, and of course the "most cherished of the dead", Demy, there wasn't a dry eye in the house.
The film itself is a marvelous work of art. Varda has such a way of weaving strands of memories together with archival footage, recreations of scenes, clips, interviews, installations, etc. Her particular brand of forward-movement through the movie runs a bit like free association at times, but it's so very interesting and rewarding to follow her through the paths of her mind.
(Hopefully all the above didn't read as maudlin. I really love the old gal and it was a touching experience seeing this)
So yes, if it comes near you please go see it.
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swo17
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#447 Post by swo17 »

I don't know, I doubt it will make my list, but I liked Lives of Others just fine, mostly down to Ulrich Mühe's performance. Though I would certainly hesitate to call it, as IMDb users apparently have, the 59th best film of all time. More like the 8th or 9th best film of whatever year it came out, more likely.

In any case, I think a better film about basically the same idea (but much less somber, and more absurd) is Bent Hamer's Kitchen Stories, about a Swedish man commissioned to observe a single elderly Norwegian man's kitchen habits as part of a study to design the ideal kitchen for men. As in The Lives of Others, the observer is strictly forbidden to communicate with his subject, but unlike that film, he does his observations while sitting in the corner of the kitchen, from atop a lifeguard-style perch. And for the hat trick, I suppose, the lives of the two men intertwine in unexpected ways. Quite funny and touching stuff.

EDIT: Crap, did I just pull an Armond White?
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Michael Kerpan
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#448 Post by Michael Kerpan »

I have Kitchen Tales sitting around -- somewhere -- waiting to be seen. Maybe tonight. Thanks for the reminder.

BTW -- a note to all -- if Kumakiri's Nonko 36-sai (Nonko, 36 years old) happens to show up anywhere in your vicinity (probably not likely, except at a festival-y sort of setting), do check it out. A very good film about a washed-up Grade B model/starlet moved back home with her parents in a mountain town (where her father is the priest at a Shinto shrine). A goofy younger guy shows up -- with the hare-brained scheme of selling baby chicks at the upcoming shrine festival (which requires local yakuza permission, which he is NOT going to get). Kumakiri's very fine Hole in the Sky from several years back got ignored -- so I fear the same will happen with this. (Alas, the Japanese DVD is not subbed).
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swo17
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#449 Post by swo17 »

One more thing on Kitchen Stories--I've read that part of the humor derives from each of the men speaking to each other in their own languages at certain points, which is unfortunately not conveyed in the subtitles. So we have a Linda Linda Linda situation, where you will have to factor this into your viewing on your own.

Oh, and apparently the whole kitchen observation experiment actually happened in the 1950s, so perhaps the film is not quite as absurdist as I thought!
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Michael Kerpan
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#450 Post by Michael Kerpan »

BTW __ I have already seen Hamer's more recent O'Horten -- and this has a solid place on the decade's "loved films" list -- regardless of whether it makes it into the top 50 or not.
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