'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

[foggy eyes]

We hope to release [...] DEEP END in the future.

Made my day!

[Tribe]

Is The Deep End being referred to the one with Tilda Swinton?

[ShellOilJunior]

If the Kurosawa box is blu-rays then it's a day one purchase. If they're DVD's I'm passing.

Same goes for future releases.

[domino harvey]

Yes, I'm sure Criterion is releasing a 25 disc Blu-ray box

[foggy eyes]

Is The Deep End being referred to the one with Tilda Swinton?

That didn't even cross my mind - Skolimowski, right?

[Harmonov]

Tristana and Deep End have been confirmed as future Criterion titles, and further confirmation on Hunger and Mystery Train:

Hi Mychal,

Thank you for your email!

To answer your release questions: We plan on releasing HUNGER and
MYSTERY TRAIN in 2010 and hope to release TRISTANA and DEEP END in the
future.I hope this helps, and feel free to write again should you have
further questions!

Sincerely,

Jon Mulvaney

While I know some are skeptical about Hunger, I am very excited about this. Also being a big Jarmusch fan, Mystery Train's confirmation is equally exciting. Thanks for passing along the great news.

[eerik]

Toho is releasing 21 Kurosawa movies on Blu-ray in Japan. I can't see a reason why Criterion could not release a Kurosawa Blu-ray boxset.

[Tribe]

Is The Deep End being referred to the one with Tilda Swinton?

That didn't even cross my mind - Skolimowski, right?

Directed by Scott McGehee and David Siegel...who also did a cool little noir back in '93 called Suture.

[LQ]

Is The Deep End being referred to the one with Tilda Swinton?

Not that I disliked that movie, it was a very slick, well-done thriller... but it's so minor I can't imagine Criterion messing with it. I also seem to remember that looked very good-certainly not in need of an upgraded transfer, or anything. Also, in his email, Jon writes "Deep End", not "The Deep End". I think that's a telling distinction.

[What A Disgrace]

I hope its the Skolimowski Deep End. Otherwise, my early morning excitement will have been for naught.

[Tribe]

Is The Deep End being referred to the one with Tilda Swinton?

Not that I disliked that movie, it was a very slick, well-done thriller... but it's so minor I can't imagine Criterion messing with it. I also seem to remember that looked very good-certainly not in need of an upgraded transfer, or anything. Also, in his email, Jon writes "Deep End", not "The Deep End". I think that's a telling distinction.

You certainly could be right...that would leave Skolimowski's Deep End (not familiar with that one at all), Pete Townshend's Deep End or something that appears as a Greek film also titled Deep End (I'm getting this from IMDB). Since some one else mentioned Skolimowski in this thread, perhaps its that one.

Although McGehee and Siegel's The Deep End with Tilda Swinton is a solid contemporary noir...not certain that it should be considered "minor," at the time I felt it was woefully over-looked.

[dadaistnun]

I'm sure it is the Skolimowski, but.... there was speculation at one point that The Reckless Moment might end up at Criterion. I find it hard to imagine a double feature set ala The Lower Depths or The Killers (it's not like the directors are in the league of Kurosawa, Renoir, Siegel, or Siodmak).

edit: to make clear by "directors not in the same league" I mean the directors of The Deep End, not Ophuls. (And I'm not trying to knock Scott McGehee & David Siegel -- I haven't seen any of their films.)

[Buttery Jeb]

I hope its the Skolimowski Deep End. Otherwise, my early morning excitement will have been for naught.

I concur. The Skolimowski "Deep End" has been on the top of my Paramount license-wishlist since I saw it at Anthology Film Archives last year. Hope that's the one being bandied about.

This is not a slight on the Swinton film; it was one of the unsung thrillers of the late '90s/early '00s, and a great vehicle for her in particular. But it's not a film that I'm clamoring for from Criterion. If they really want to work with Swinton, outside of her role as Derek Jarman's executor, then Sally Potter's "Orlando" could probably be grabbed from Sony with no trouble.

-BJ

[ShellOilJunior]

Yes, I'm sure Criterion is releasing a 25 disc Blu-ray box

At this point DVD's would be superfluous. Why purchase DVD's when there's a great possibility titles like Seven Samurai are headed for Blu-ray in the near future?

[Felix]

Yes, I'm sure Criterion is releasing a 25 disc Blu-ray box

At this point DVD's would be superfluous. Why purchase DVD's when there's a great possibility titles like Seven Samurai are headed for Blu-ray in the near future?

There are numerous posts in numerous threads explaining why. Each to his own, but perhaps Domino is starting to tire of yet another post asking for this, that or the next film on Blu-Ray. There have been a lot of them lately. Not directed at you, you're new here, and the question, in isolation, is fair, but it's not new (and I am not going to buck my own advice and give my own reasons why I do not think DVDs superfluous). I have been resisting the temptation to announce that I can't wait for Koko, A Talking Gorilla to come to Blu-Ray...

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

I'm just excited about Tristana. Thank God for more Bunuel. I just hope it's really soon (as in 2010).

[Cinephrenic]

Deep End... another porn release by Criterion. :-"

[swo17]

At least that means it will be released on Blu-ray. :-"

[psufootball07]

http://nyccine.blogspot.com/2009/08/jim ... tp_27.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks like Paris, Texas and Mystery Train should be coming soon.

[lull]

hmm. just caught this on Twitter: http://www.symphonyspace.org/series/142?source=homepage" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
no idea if this has been mentioned before.

High-def theatrical presentations of Black Orpheus, La Strada, Jules and Jim, 400 Blows, Knife in the Water, and High and Low !

should we expect Blu-ray releases (minus the already-released 400 Blows) or are these just the usual high-def Criterion masters used for their DVD releases?

[knives]

Considering Black Orpheus doesn't mention a hi-def transfer I wouldn't be surprised if it was getting prepped to be redone, but the others already have hi-def transfers so that shouldn't be judged on them.

[Jun-Dai]

I think that's probably wishful thinking. They came out with the Janus Box, which-- like the AK box-- contained a mix of prereleased titles and titles not previously out on CC/Eclipse-- and still maintained the usual throb of titles. And, the reasoning that the extras for classics and that the extras for semi-classics take a different amount of time, so much so that the extras and production for semi-classics represent a sort of "vacation" for production staff is I think a little bit of a stretch. It's pure dollars and cents.

I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that the difference here is that the Janus box was a mix of prereleased titles and titles that had been prepped for release but were dropped from schedule since CC felt they weren't priority enough to warrant a full production. I.e., that the Janus box didn't require much effort either in terms of transfer or in terms of production, and the book probably involved more people from Janus than from Criterion.

In this case, however, few, if any, of the CC Kurosawa releases are taking advantage of the unprecedented 6K restoration of Kurosawa's body of work, so they most likely have been making brand new transfers all year. Given that level of effort, it would make sense to try to assemble as much in the way of extras as possible so as to make the set definitive, and I bet that a number of their heavy hitters have been occupied working with Toho to sort out the details and take advantage of the work Toho's already done.

As you say, it's pure dollars and cents, but CC is not a big company and remastering most of the 25 films and assembling the materials for the set isn't a task they're likely to assign to a couple of interns.

[HerrSchreck]

I think that's probably wishful thinking. They came out with the Janus Box, which-- like the AK box-- contained a mix of prereleased titles and titles not previously out on CC/Eclipse-- and still maintained the usual throb of titles. And, the reasoning that the extras for classics and that the extras for semi-classics take a different amount of time, so much so that the extras and production for semi-classics represent a sort of "vacation" for production staff is I think a little bit of a stretch. It's pure dollars and cents.

I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that the difference here is that the Janus box was a mix of prereleased titles and titles that had been prepped for release but were dropped from schedule since CC felt they weren't priority enough to warrant a full production. I.e., that the Janus box didn't require much effort either in terms of transfer or in terms of production, and the book probably involved more people from Janus than from Criterion.

In this case, however, few, if any, of the CC Kurosawa releases are taking advantage of the unprecedented 6K restoration of Kurosawa's body of work, so they most likely have been making brand new transfers all year. Given that level of effort, it would make sense to try to assemble as much in the way of extras as possible so as to make the set definitive, and I bet that a number of their heavy hitters have been occupied working with Toho to sort out the details and take advantage of the work Toho's already done.

As you say, it's pure dollars and cents, but CC is not a big company and remastering most of the 25 films and assembling the materials for the set isn't a task they're likely to assign to a couple of interns.

Do we know for sure that this is going to be a quote "criterion" release, and not just a standalone box like Janus? In other words, that the hole-plugger titles are going to have full-blown CC spine numbers? And in the case of AK's oevre, they're in many many cases inheriting the masters from Toho, so there's not an awful lot of production on their end, at least as far as exclusive CC telecine is concerned. So they're not the ones running the transfers.

Do you really think that most of the films that are going to be REreleased in this box are going to be completely new and trump each and every pre-existing AK release? Do we have any evidence to support this? Where the vast bulk of AK Criterions that are sitting in everyone's house right now, most of which have been sourced from HD masters already, are going to become obsolete once this box comes out, and that virtually every AK spine number is going to be overhauled?

I find that a little hard to believe... or at very least I'll believe that when I see it. I mean, do you really think that the last upgrade to Seven Samurai, sourced from the HD 2k telecine, is going to be dumped and a new, 3rd, SD-DVD is going to come out?

As far as the other, "lesser" AK titles go, I think the comparison to the titles in the Janus box is apt. Non-flagship titles, transfers run in most cases from outside sources, minimal extras more than likely.

[TIVOLI]

With so many upcoming Criterion releases being confirmed, I feel like a Kremlinologist in 1989. I already miss the sense of secrecy created by Mulvaney and the politburo. But to strain the analogy even further, I feel that we are witnessing the end of an empire. The emerging pattern for these new choices is to be post-1970, requiring no costly restoration, and most commonly English-language. Old criterion, new criteria. We can no longer have high expectations that Criterion will restore truncated classics and resurrect neglected ones. Given the current dismal economic realities, it is probably unreasonable to expect otherwise, and time to be appreciative for what they have accomplished. In the larger picture, it is of course the studios who have failed us. Film was the newest and greatest art form of the 20th century, but it has never truly been treated as such. While even a minor literary classic such as McTeague will probably never go out of print, the milestone film which it triggered, Greed, still awaits a DVD release.
An era is passing, and the treasures of too many great international films and directors will remain lost to us.

[Jun-Dai]

Do we know for sure that this is going to be a quote "criterion" release, and not just a standalone box like Janus? In other words, that the hole-plugger titles are going to have full-blown CC spine numbers? And in the case of AK's oevre, they're in many many cases inheriting the masters from Toho, so there's not an awful lot of production on their end, at least as far as exclusive CC telecine is concerned. So they're not the ones running the transfers.

Do you really think that most of the films that are going to be REreleased in this box are going to be completely new and trump each and every pre-existing AK release? Do we have any evidence to support this? Where the vast bulk of AK Criterions that are sitting in everyone's house right now, most of which have been sourced from HD masters already, are going to become obsolete once this box comes out, and that virtually every AK spine number is going to be overhauled?

I find that a little hard to believe... or at very least I'll believe that when I see it. I mean, do you really think that the last upgrade to Seven Samurai, sourced from the HD 2k telecine, is going to be dumped and a new, 3rd, SD-DVD is going to come out?

As far as the other, "lesser" AK titles go, I think the comparison to the titles in the Janus box is apt. Non-flagship titles, transfers run in most cases from outside sources, minimal extras more than likely.

I could be wrong again, but my impression was that Criterion usually does the transfers (i.e., compression for disc) from HD masters that they get elsewhere (in this case ToHo) that they may or may not adjust themselves. Given that it's a digital restoration, there won't be any telecine involved (or rather, it was done before the restoration in the form of 3K-scanning each frame quadruply), but there's still the compressing and whatnot, so it's still a normal Criterion supervised transfer process, etc., minus the digital cleanup. While it wouldn't exactly shock me to see Criterion cut corners (like the new Playtime Blu-ray) and reuse the existing transfers, my expectation is that they'll be looking to do all-new transfers from this restoration, and that they'll dump the Seven Samurai transfer like they dumped the unreleased Rules of the Game transfer when the negative was found.

As for spine numbers, etc., I don't know. For all I know it could just be run out as a separate effort, a la the Merchant-Ivory series. What would surprise me a little, though, would be if they're only released in SD-DVD, given that the quality of the masters are so much higher than Blu-ray (did you see the screencap from the Yojimbo restoration?).

There's really no evidence for this either way, we simply don't know what they're going to do. Or perhaps it's that there's evidence both ways: we've seen Criterion do things the quick, dirty, and easy way, and we've seen Criterion take time to get things right or double-dip because of new opportunities. Which is probably why there's so much room for you to have your "Janus box" expectations and me to have my "25 Blu-rays transferred from a 6K restoration" expectations, with both of us having reasons for those expectations.