2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 2)

[feckless boy]

Koji Wakamatsu's United Red Army (2008) is arguably one his best efforts. Which means it'll be on my list - that is, if I'm able to reach 50.

[knives]

Tex, you own me a swapsie
Thought Damam/Mex was good in a Chungking Express drowned in whiskey sor of way. It was actually far more enjoyable then expected, nothing to complain about, but probably won't make my list. Sorry about that.

[puxzkkx]

I have soured on Kon -- so much so that I do not dare re-watch Millennium Actress (which I did like reasonably well on first viewing) lest I find I dislike even this. Three Godfathers was a big part of his fall from grace. As far as I'm concerned the best animated feature films (post-Spirited Away) are Tekkonkinkreet and (even better) Girl Who Leapt Through Time (rather Takahata-esque in the main but with some dashes of Miyazaki). And I like the the animated mini-series(es) of Haibane Renmei (favorite animated series ever) and Texhnolyze (most visually stunning animated dystopia ever) even more than either of these.

I thought Tekkonkinkreet had some interesting animation but the narrative was ridiculous and the writing horrid... but "The Girl Who Leapt Through Time" is simply fantastic, fun without being cheesy or cloying, great voice acting in both the original and the dub, great writing and full of fantastic images (such as the one near the end where she is left standing on the riverbank at sunset).

Oi, watch Vibrator!

[LQ]

Swo, I caught You, the Living at the Film Forum yesterday, and what a funny and endearing little Swedish potpourri pot of a film! The humor is so peculiar and surprising, Andersson has this knack for making deceptively simple-looking visual gags that make you wonder why indeed you're so amused...I can't say I've been overly delighted by an image of a sousaphone before, but there was something so damn funny about it each time it popped up!
The look & sound of the film too, very curious and impressive. It seemed even the cadence and rhythm of the Swedish language was used to comedic effect. And the look of the film was spectacular...dreaminess by way of P-A Renoir, mixed with a storm cloud. And most importantly, for having spent only snatches of time with all the characters, after leaving the theatre I had warm feelings for the lot of them.
A successful swapsie

[swo17]

LQ, I'm assuming there was a bit of a drive involved for you to see the film, so thanks for making the effort. I'm glad you liked it!

[Michael]

Who's Camus Anyway? - I was really dreading watching this because I hate making-a-film films, and especially the idea of a making-a-student-film film. I only did so because it's zedz's swapsie. Basically its a remake of Day for Night, but it's Truffaut's The Story of Adele H. (a much greater film than Day for Night) that the movie constantly makes reference to. Why remake Truffaut's lightest film while drawing all inspiration from his darkest film? It's a highly unsettling juxtaposition and just one of the many examples of this film's extraordinary intelligence. And the ending is the scariest sequence I've seen in a long time. I want to write more about this film, but I feel I really need time to let it sink in. It will definitely vie for a top spot in my list.

Caught Camus last night. Fabulous! For film nuts like myself, it was like a fresh scoop of gelato on a muggy afternoon. Enjoyed prowling through various film references and homages: Truffaut's Adele H., Visconti's Death in Venice, Altman, Welles...and the late shot referencing Argento's masterpiece Deep Red. The teens were magnificent. At times I grew suspicious whether it was "film within film" in certain parts but overall it was a smart and fun ride. Not sure how it works for folks without the knowledge for cinema most of us have here.

[Nothing]

What Time Is It Over There? - I had trouble reconciling the austere, severe mise-en-scene with the cutesy subject matter in this particular film...
Cache - My first Haneke film and I don't want to see another. He's the Spielberg of current continental European art cinema. He crawls up his own asshole just to take a sniff. I need to go watch a Pialat, any Pialat, to cleanse my palate.

A spot-on assessment of both. Don't expect anything more from Tsai's films of this past decade, although his 90s work, especially The Hole and The River, is probably worth a look. You may also appreciate Haneke's La Pianiste, a work of adaptation and far less didactic as a result (Haneke's Jackie Brown, if you will).

Can't agree on Three Burials, however. The film builds up an atmosphere at times, but there's a Hollywood softness to it that is a million miles from McCarthy (not really surprising, from the screenwriter of 21 grams...). It also lacks any genuine visual panache - not a good thing in a western.

El cant dels ocells* (Serra)
*not on DVD, but drop me a line if you're desperate.

I sure hope no-one is desperate. If you're desperate, you're going to be truly disappointed... But really, if you're that desperate, I would suggest going out onto a mountainside with some fat people, a well-liked film critic and an HD camera, film them walking interminably in low light levels for a few evenings, read the bible before you go to bed, tape a pair of sunglasses permanently to your face, then submit the lackadaisical result to Director's Fortnight.

More generally - surely ballots shouldn't be accepted until the decade is over, and surely January 2010 is too early to close the poll. There are many last-minute contenders that may slip through the cracks (Tree of Life springs to mind) - eg. imagine a 90s list that excludes Eyes Wide Shut.

[reno dakota]

Can't agree on Three Burials, however. The film builds up an atmosphere at times, but there's a Hollywood softness to it that is a million miles from McCarthy (not really surprising, from the screenwriter of 21 grams...). It also lacks any genuine visual panache - not a good thing in a western.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'Hollywood softness' or where, exactly, you locate this quality in the film. If all that you mean is that it lacks the sort of unrelenting, depraved brutality on display in Blood Meridian, then I would be happy to grant the point. But there is more to McCarthy than Blood Meridian (or even No Country for Old Men, for that matter). When I recommended Three Burials to McCarthy fans, I had in mind its parallels to certain elements of the Border trilogy, particularly the close relationship of John Grady Cole and Lacey Rawlins in All the Pretty Horses and the psychologically isolated, grieving protagonist of The Crossing. There are stretches of dialogue in Three Burials, particularly between Perkins and Estrada, that echo the rhythms of McCarthy's prose in those novels. And, yes, there is even a 'softness' in the affection Perkins and Estrada have for one another that echos the deep devotion and near brotherly bond between Cole and Rawlins. Add to this the way in which Perkins resembles a McCarthian protagonist, most of whom (to varying degrees) feel displaced and uneasy within their own culture/surroundings and spend a great deal of their time running . . . from the past, from responsibility, from various other problems and perils.

All of these elements of Three Burials that I have just mentioned may be 'soft', but I disagree that these qualities place the film a million miles from McCarthy.

[foggy eyes]

I sure hope no-one is desperate. If you're desperate, you're going to be truly disappointed... But really, if you're that desperate, I would suggest going out onto a mountainside with some fat people, a well-liked film critic and an HD camera, film them walking interminably in low light levels for a few evenings, read the bible before you go to bed, tape a pair of sunglasses permanently to your face, then submit the lackadaisical result to Director's Fortnight.

I'm not much of an avatar person, but:

Excellent.

On a 2000s note, I watched The Great Ecstasy of Robert Carmichael recently, and it turned out to be almost as excruciatingly hollow as Haneke's Funny Games. Despite the best efforts of the "graphic" ending, it all felt surprisingly bloodless and played out a bit like an immature version of Elephant shot by Benedek Fliegauf (not a good thing - there's nothing of Angelopoulos' sense of space here). Still looking forward to Clay's Soi Cowboy, mind!

[Nothing]

I'm afraid I saw Three Burials too long ago to give much more than a general impression, although I vaguely recall some unlikely nonsense involving a Mexican woman. McCarthy can display genuine warmth for his characters (I'm particularly fond of Suttree) but he never misrepresents human nature. I wasn't a fan of No Country For Old Men - the film - either, for various reasons, but it still gets closer to the spirit of McCarthy than this or anything preceding.

The Great Ecstasy... is much better than Elephant, although it only ranks about 42nd on my current 00s list. The composition is more akin to Andersson, and Kubrick, than Angelopoulos, I would say.

I'm too lazy and broke to do swapsies, but Soi Cowboy is definitely a recommendation. Also Brisseau's Choses Secretes, Alonso's Los Muertos and Ghobadi's Marooned in Iraq. I'd mention The New World, Miami Vice, etc, but assuming everyone has seen those already.

[reno dakota]

I'm afraid I saw Three Burials too long ago to give much more than a general impression, although I vaguely recall some unlikely nonsense involving a Mexican woman. McCarthy can display genuine warmth for his characters (I'm particularly fond of Suttree) but he never misrepresents human nature. I wasn't a fan of No Country For Old Men - the film - either, for various reasons, but it still gets closer to the spirit of McCarthy than this or anything preceding.

I find all of this non sequitur to my post above. I never claimed that the spirit of McCarthy is best captured by Three Burials, or that the Coen's NCFOM somehow fails in this regard. I am merely suggesting that there are McCarthian elements in Jones' film, without denying that there are other lines of influence at work there as well. Your claims strike me as far too bold for someone who has little more than a 'general impression' of the film he's criticizing.

[zedz]

But my swapsie (and probably #1 slot holder) is going to have to be Ruiz's Ce-jour la. Absolutely one of the most riotous, hysterical, mad movies I've ever seen, and yet imbued with a mysterious, tragic quality similar to that of Godard's Nouvelle vague. An absurdist joke taken full circle, the punchline being that all of its incongruities make perfect sense. Giraudeau also turns in what is hands down, no arguments necessary, the best psycho killer performance of all time.

Probably my favourite Ruiz of the decade, so definitely in contention for my list. Just as he’d use Treasure Island or Dracula to randomly generate the ‘rules’ of his fictional worlds in Treasure Island or L’oeil qui ment, here he seems to have fashioned a universe out of old Hitchcock movies. Wildly, beautifully plotted, and with one of my favourite shots of the decade (the in-and-out bit along the hallway to which swo alludes).

Goodbye, Dragon Inn - The brief exchange between the teacher and the other man seem to suggest this film is reflecting upon the death of cinema as an art; "Nobody goes to the movies anymore" and the film takes place in an old movie-house where most of the audience are merely ghosts.

I don’t know if this really counts as a spoiler, but just in case:

Spoiler

the old guys are the stars of Dragon Inn, the film they’ve been watching, which adds yet another tweak to the death of cinema / ghost audience idea you note.

Who's Camus Anyway? - I was really dreading watching this because I hate making-a-film films, and especially the idea of a making-a-student-film film. I only did so because it's zedz's swapsie. Basically its a remake of Day for Night, but it's Truffaut's The Story of Adele H. (a much greater film than Day for Night) that the movie constantly makes reference to. Why remake Truffaut's lightest film while drawing all inspiration from his darkest film? It's a highly unsettling juxtaposition and just one of the many examples of this film's extraordinary intelligence. And the ending is the scariest sequence I've seen in a long time. I want to write more about this film, but I feel I really need time to let it sink in. It will definitely vie for a top spot in my list.

Whew! Dodged a bullet. I love this film’s mix of registers and moods, and its many film references (from the virtuoso opening shot on) are much better integrated and natural than most such exercises (these characters are, after all, highly film-referential) – with the possible exception of the Death in Venice stuff. There’s also that magnificent shot in the atrium with the musicians. But it’s that ending, which lunges towards Imamura (who’d been a strong influence on Yanagimachi’s earlier work, specifically Fire Festival) and is far more profoundly unsettling than most other structural tricks of this kind, which seals the deal for me.

Spoiler

One of the reasons it’s so effective, I think, is that it almost seems to be your own sanity that’s disintegrating, rather than any of the characters’, yet all this is conveyed without obvious, outlandish effects.

Incidentally I saw The Bothersome Man on the BBC again last night, a Danish film that seems very Andersson inspired.

I suppose this could be considered Andersson-lite (and decaf), but it’s very different (and I wasn’t a fan). You, the Living is more like Monty Python on downers: a series of barely related absurdist non sequiturs.

I've been unable to really choose just one swapsie, so I'm going to make it Vibrator (2003, Ryuichi Hiroki) - because more people seem to have seen Linda Linda Linda than I thought would be the case.

Vibrator is on my short list. Hiroki seems to be an interesting figure, emerging from pink cinema (though the title of this film does not refer to a sex device!), but the only other film I’ve seen of his, It’s Only Talk, was disappointing. Any other recommendations for this director?

[zedz]

I sure hope no-one is desperate. If you're desperate, you're going to be truly disappointed... But really, if you're that desperate, I would suggest going out onto a mountainside with some fat people, a well-liked film critic and an HD camera, film them walking interminably in low light levels for a few evenings, read the bible before you go to bed, tape a pair of sunglasses permanently to your face, then submit the lackadaisical result to Director's Fortnight.

I'm not much of an avatar person, but:

Excellent.

I saw what you did! This is beyond satire!

Re. Serra's sunglasses, a nice quote from the man himself (when he accidentally left them behind in a Japanese restaurant): "A film director without sunglasses is like Samson without his hair." You gotta love the guy!

[domino harvey]

06 Land of Plenty (Wenders, 2004) I'll expand on this one later, but handily the best film made about the effects of 9/11. Wenders' utter sincerity in the film turns a lot of viewers off, but how else to make a film like this?

I had the misfortune of sitting through the truly madly deeply abysmal Incendiary this weekend and now Michelle Williams can hold claim to quite the hat trick: Appearing in both the best and the worst films made about the effects of 9/11.

[swo17]

Who's Camus Anyway?

I watched this the other day and liked it quite a bit (particularly the ending!) but I have to ask: Is it possible anymore to open a film with a long continuous tracking shot that does not a) acknowledge that you are watching a long continuous tracking shot and b) mention every other film that has done this?

Spoiler

I did like though how the film went so far as to mention the lengths of the shots for other films and then, by my watch, outlasted them both, closing with that great synchronized dance number.

[domino harvey]

Domino: you've really sent me down a rabbit trail with this Louis Theroux guy. Until your post, I'd never heard of him. I'm gobsmacked. He does everything Sasha Baron Cohen claims to be doing only without the safe smokescreen of humor (though there is plenty of that, particularly in the editing). I hereby second the recommendation of the Nazi doc (which, for me, was only available via Youtube and similar sites). Forget the list project; this is STRONGLY RECOMMENDED as a civic duty.

Glad he's wowed you so much. I've been a fan since his segments on the late TV Nation and the two collections released in Britain of his specials and assorted Weird Weekends (even if a lot of the best episodes are MIA) are reason enough to go region free. My copies are still in storage, but I highly recommend his special on the big game hunters (which I caught right before moving) for another masterclass in Theroux's ability to capture the contradictory nature of his subjects. Theroux's gradual portrait of the owner of a big game "hunting" sanctuary who clearly has become repulsed at his entire way of living but lacks the will or means to stop is stunning and really took what I had foolishly pegged at the outset to be a sort of midrange Theroux b-side into the realm of his best work.

[GringoTex]

Two more swapsies:

Boy A - Extraordinary lead performance and lead actress gives one of the great fat chick performances of all time, but the film doesn't deserve them. The "issue" takes center stage, which is a sin with such great actors. But worst of all, the director frames all action as if he's the Michael Bay of kitchen sink realism.

Come Undone - I couldn't get past the amateur navel-gazing of it all.

[FerdinandGriffon]

A few swapsies I tackles recently:

Who's Camus Anyway? - What a strange, wonderful beast this is. Zedz's comparisons to Altman and Imamura were very apt, though I'd go farther and say that it's an Altman film that turns into an Imamura one, a shift in the right direction, in my opinion. The odd, erratic convolutions of the plot and the remarkably fluid distortions of the final scene were both mesmerizing and immensely stress inducing at the same time, and left me with a vague feeling of distrust that was not entirely unpleasant. I'll have to revisit it before I submit my list, but a place somewhere is a given.

You, the Living - A very frustrating experience. Andersson's late style is terribly original, idiosyncratic, and polished. It is also very, very stale. The man has been recycling pretty much the exact same formula for over 25 years, with very little variation in form or content, and it's beginning to show. I say this as someone who was astonished by Songs from the Second Floor and loves World of Glory. There's just nothing in this film that Andersson hasn't done before and better. The individual vignettes are either entirely too banal, ridden with Andersson's old complaints expressed ad infinitum in the same old ways, or bombastically excessive. Having a naked, emaciated sexagenarian complain about his banking woes while his obese wife huffs and puffs above him wearing only a marching band helmet is both. Nothing about this image makes an impression except its petulant, needling whine for attention. In preparation for You, the Living I watched Andersson's first feature, A Love Story, and found in it moments of perfect, crystalline despair that far surpass anything in his latest. The scene where a man sits half-dressed in his living room and cleans his rifle, then turns to his entering daughter and says, "Your mother is destitute, and I am a git.", has more mirthful, agonized madness in it than in the whole of You, the Living. What is most remarkable about A Love Story is that at the same time it is the truest, most sensitive depiction of the teenage heart I've ever come across. A film I urge all to see, even if I disparage its descendant.

A few thoughts on Kon: I may be alone in considering Paprika his best work, I just see much more philosophical and emotional depth in it, even if the packaging is a little outrageous and scattershot. I also think that the parade of anthropomorphized artifacts from Japan's recent cultural and political history is an astonishing, powerful sight the equal of which I haven't seen in any other animated film this decade. I'm pretty cool on Millennium Actress, I thought the presentation was lovely, but the dreary day-time soapiness of the actual plot didn't really do justice to the films it referenced. I do reccomend that any big fans of the film pick up a book I recently finished which attempted a similar structure, Yoko Tawada's The Naked Eye. It's about a Vietnamese girl who is kidnapped in the 1970's and subsequently dragged unwillingly through various European cities, but the events of the plot are warped and changed by the girl's obsession with Catherine Deneuve. Each chapter is named after a film starring Deneuve, and the girl's life and those of Deneuve's onscreen characters are constantly bleeding into one another. It's a fascinating examination of language, identity, and our relationship with film, and a very worthwhile read for anyone who frequents this forum, but especially Millennium Actress or Deneuve fans.

[puxzkkx]

Vibrator is on my short list. Hiroki seems to be an interesting figure, emerging from pink cinema (though the title of this film does not refer to a sex device!), but the only other film I’ve seen of his, It’s Only Talk, was disappointing. Any other recommendations for this director?

He's done a lot of interesting films, but not many of them seem fully realized and more like really interesting ideas that he tosses onto paper (he is one of the more prolific Japanese directors, after all). I think "Tokyo Trash Baby", "It's Only Talk" and "I Am An S&M Writer" are interesting works, but nothing else he's done has the depth or the emotion of "Vibrator", for me (although I haven't seen all of his films).

I just saw The Brown Bunny and I actually really liked it - contrary to popular belief it isn't just an 85-minute filmed blowjob. Gallo is fantastic and the film is really evocative of a particular mood and mindset. Watching this I'm reminded of the adage that film is "captured emotion" in the same way that photographs are "captured time". This film is certainly emotional and very personal to the director. I don't think feminist attacks are grounded - I think that, these days, any film that deals with male sexuality or the male outlook is attacked for being "anti-women", when it isn't. It's not anti-women, it's just about men. Gallo has made something special here and it is a shame that the controversy seemed to swallow up what is actually a very good film.

As far as swapsies go, someone please watch the beautiful A Piece of Sky by Benedicte Lienard - it contains some strange, unsettling moods and images and the lead performance (by Severine Caneele, a strange talent) is one of the best performances I've seen from this decade or any other.

[foggy eyes]

Re. Serra's sunglasses, a nice quote from the man himself (when he accidentally left them behind in a Japanese restaurant): "A film director without sunglasses is like Samson without his hair." You gotta love the guy!

Awesome. TC should totally darken these glasses.

(Just kidding.)

[Gropius]

like an immature version of Elephant shot by Benedek Fliegauf (not a good thing...

I take it you're not a fan of Fliegauf, then? I've only seen the recent Milky Way (2007), which is apparently his least narrative-based feature, and thought it was pretty interesting.

[Michael]

Come Undone - I couldn't get past the amateur navel-gazing of it all.

Not sure what you mean exactly. How is it amateur? I thought it was very sensitively, lovingly filmed - the burst of mindless summer love jumbled with the October coldness of healing and understanding. I admit too many gay films have already been made "coming of age" - the first love, the coming out, the heartbreaks, etc. - something almost every gay person around the world can identify with. Most of them are really bad and generic and I feel Come Undone is really the diamond in that pile of coals. Like Maurice, another gay film, it's interesting to see how gay men with great education and wealth give up everything, their status quo, instantly once fallen in love with men from totally different backgrounds, from the bottom of the ladder, such as game keepers, carnival workers and hustlers, as shown in those films. Come Undone also reflects another prism - the hereditary (?) depression crippling the family, a subject rarely handled this well in cinema.

[foggy eyes]

I take it you're not a fan of Fliegauf, then? I've only seen the recent Milky Way (2007), which is apparently his least narrative-based feature, and thought it was pretty interesting.

I haven't seen Milky Way yet, but (unexpectedly) didn't get on with Dealer at all - derivative modern art-cinema wallpaper. The comparison isn't really warranted, but give me Tarr anyday!

[FerdinandGriffon]

Under the Sand - A perverse twist on Polanski's Repulsion and a tremendous showcase for Rampling's talent. She's a very unsettling actress, equal parts flirtatious teenager and forbidding Delphic oracle, and always a pleasure to watch. I recommend Moll's Lemming to anyone who appreciated her in under the Sand, she turns in a truly demonic performance that makes up for some of the rest of the film's faults. Under the Sand may not quite make my list, but Water Drops on Burning Rocks certainly will, so Ozon's place is assured.

Murdoch, all roads lead to Ruiz!

[Murdoch]

Murdoch, all roads lead to Ruiz!

Believe me, I have been dying to see Ce jour-la ever since I began my Ruiz obsession during the 80s list.