Zabriskie Point

[HarryLong]

So Warner brothers either chose not to release the correct version - they COULD have, but didn't have the guts, the taste, or the integrity to do so - or they were too lazy and indifferent to even educate themselves in this matter and discover that there are alternate cuts, one vastly preferred by cinephiles and Antonioni fans.

This is scarcely an isolated incident with the brothers Warner ...

[justeleblanc]

Before we start hating Warner... It's very possible that Warner only owns the rights to the 'Orbison cut' of the film.

[ptmd]

It's very possible that Warner only owns the rights to the 'Orbison cut' of the film.

Definitely not, since the circulating prints mentioned above come from Warner Brothers...

[flyonthewall2983]

For fans of the soundtrack, and Floyd's contributions specifically, there was a bootleg that came out of Russia a few years back featuring outtakes from the recording sessions. The quality is extremely good, and has some amusing moments in it as well.

[martin]

I got my German Zabriske Point today. I was eager to find out if there were any extended scenes (like on MOC's La notte) but there aren't any (not really). Only the end sequence is extended (by two minutes or so). The sunset lasts a little bit longer here (a few seconds). Then there's a fade to black while the Orbison song continues for almost two minutes to a black screen. That explains the 109 minute playing time.

The image looks to me like an exact copy of the R1 transfer. The colors of the desert sequences seems to be the same. There's not much difference anywhere. The colors may seem a bit dull or pale compared to the French release, but on the other hand that looks boosted to me.

I've uploaded some screencaptures on my own page - (i've not made any effort to capture exact same frames as on DVDBeaver's Zabriskie review, but one or two captures are from the same scenes): Zabriskie Point - R2, Germany, Warner

If anyone wants to grab the images (or some of them), upload them on Imageshack, and post them in the Screen Captures thread on this forum, feel free to do so!

[ellipsis7]

Interesting - I should receive my copy of the Warner Germany disc soon... The fleshtones appear truer in your screengrabs, than in DVD Beaver's screengrabs from the Warner R1 NTSC...

[martin]

Maybe you're right but I hardly notice any differences when comparing to DVDBeaver's caps (I don't have the R1 myself). Anyway the differences seems negligible, I think, since the captures may be grabbed under slightly different conditions - and are not exactly the same frames. Mine are also smaller and compressed significantly harder.

Some of the explosion scenes filmed with hi-speed camera still have a fault whith a "shifting" or "wobbling" light (or shadow?) at the bottom of the frame. This fault has been on every print I've ever seen (also on television) and is still not corrected.

Specifications on the Warner Germany disc:
Coded Region 2, 4 & 5. PAL.
1h 49m 05s (feature film)
Aspect ratio 2.40:1 (16x9 encoded). Dual layer.
Five audio options (as listed on amazon.de) and subs in 18 European languages including English HOH, German HOH, and Italian HOH (these three subtitle languages are not specified on amazon.de's page).
Special features: US trailer.

A pretty solid release, I think, although barebones (again!).

[eltopo]

Screenshots on the Warner Germany disc:





and TV Germany (3Sat from 27.09.2007):

[Tommaso]

Thanks, eltopo, the 3sat screenshot should settle it in my view. The French disc it must be, but I really don't understand how Warners US/Germany could get it so very wrong.

[justeleblanc]

Thanks, eltopo, the 3sat screenshot should settle it in my view. The French disc it must be, but I really don't understand how Warners US/Germany could get it so very wrong.

Dah, I completely disagree. The people during the orgy are not supposed to have reddish fleshtones. They are supposed to be washed out as if they are covered in sand.

[accatone]

I tend to be with Filmbo here - and having seen the german DVD yesterday i think the image/colors is quite acceptable even tough not pristine. I have seen this film "on" film at least once and if memory serves me right the overall look was "sandish/khaki-grey like" and not "fl(a)eshy". The Beaver grabs are also kind of confusing to me as far as color balance varies from frame grab to frame grab (of an individual release). . . but my eyes may be playing tricks here . . .

[ellipsis7]

Bruce Davidson/Magnum production still...



Vs. Warner Germany framegrab...

[accatone]

Hhmmm...i am not sure what this comparison tells us? There is a huge difference in having a 35mm still (on a computer screen!) compared to a video screengrab/shot. (By the way ellipsis7, it would be great if you would find the time to make up a Kiarostami thread in the directors section here on this board...not that i think that you will have the time but your constant postings on him made me really interested...and that does in no way misscredit your posts on Antonioni - the opposite!

[ellipsis7]

Thanks, Accatone, will try and do something on AK when and if I get the time - not now unfortunately... I agree the ZP comparison is a bit chalk and cheese, as you say, but I think it indicates that Warner Germany transfer is not too bad, although I'm still waiting for my copy to decide finally for myself...

[Barmy]

That screencap of the tits and ass on the German DVD is an abomination if it really looks that way. I've seen this film in 35mm at least 25 times (sorry, it's my all time favorite film). The bodies are golden in that sequence, not gray.

[ellipsis7]

Have the Warner Germany disc and I've been comparing it with my Warner France disc on the projection screen -the French disc is definitely quite contrast boosted (there's clear haloes round high contrast edges), resulting in a nice golden feel to the 'orgy' scene, while the German disc seems not to be boosted, and does have rather pale flesh tones and a less 'sunny' feel, but does not appear altogether inappropriate... I suppose neither is the totally ideal transfer, but the Warner Germany shaves it for me (BTW the menu and default audio option are in English)... Bring on a region free Blu of ZP! etc...

[Tommaso]

Thanks for the comparison, ellipsis. So, if the difference between the French and the German disc is not due to colour timing but rather to contrast settings, would it be possible to 'create' that non-existent 'ideal look' by simply fiddling with the contrast knob when playing the German disc? I know that doing this is basically anathema, but from your description it sounds as if I might help in this case; as I said before, from the caps I clearly prefer the look of the French disc, but then non-anamorphic discs and haloes(!) are not exactly what I like...

[jsteffe]

I would say look at the actual DVD in playback before making any adjustments to the image. I've found that computer screens handle video differently from TV monitors, and projectors handle images differently from them as well. Something that looks a little weak in contrast in computer playback may look fine on a good CRT or plasma screen. But in the case of the caps in question, I don't think it's just the contrast but also the color balance. The American disc looks distinctly bluish in the desert orgy sequence based on the screen captures.

I'm expecting to to receive my copy of ZB any day now and am eager to try it out on both a CRT and a plasma.

[accatone]

Most of the talk is about the fleshy "desert sex scene" and about the fleshy colors - if i look at the other screenshots at beaver - the german dvd looks quite good in comparision to the others - however, as mentioned before, you have to check this at home on your own tech-parameters. I think its soooo difficult to decide color balance upon screenshots (contrast, sharpness and AR is a differnt story).

[jsteffe]

Most of the talk is about the fleshy "desert sex scene" and about the fleshy colors - if i look at the other screenshots at beaver - the german dvd looks quite good in comparision to the others - however, as mentioned before, you have to check this at home on your own tech-parameters. I think its soooo difficult to decide color balance upon screenshots (contrast, sharpness and AR is a differnt story).

Absolutely. The other thing I would add is that *even if* someone finally judges that the color balance is indeed off in that particular scene, the rest of the DVD could look great. Just looking at the screencaps, I didn't notice any obvious problems with of the examples provided.

More than likely with a new transfer from a big company like Warner Brothers, they paid the extra money to have contrast and color balance adjusted on a scene-by-scene basis. It depends partly on the elements they were working with and what they were using for a reference.

[oldsheperd]

I have a dilemma here. I'm 31 so I don't have any point of reference for the time expressed in this film and I hate hippies and free love. That being said, I love Antonioni's films.

I'm on the fence whether I should get this or not.

[tavernier]

I have a dilemma here. I'm 31 so I don't have any point of reference for the time expressed in this film and I hate hippies and free love. That being said, I love Antonioni's films.

I'm on the fence whether I should get this or not.

No dilemma at all: get it.

[Barmy]

I don't view the film as pro-hippy. Aren't they portrayed to some extent as ineffective?

I'm not sure MA was pro-free love either.

[justeleblanc]

I have a dilemma here. I'm 31 so I don't have any point of reference for the time expressed in this film and I hate hippies and free love. That being said, I love Antonioni's films.

I'm on the fence whether I should get this or not.

The movie is anti-emptiness... the counter-culture being just one of many within the shallow.

[Cold Bishop]

I'm not sure MA was pro-free love either.

No, but the hippies seem to have actually made a positive impression on him to a degree. I mean, isn't this the first Antonioni where eros isn't sick?