1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 2)

An ongoing project to survey the best films of individual decades, genres, and filmmakers
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HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:46 pm

Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#251 Post by HerrSchreck »

Yojimbo wrote:I prefer 'Melvin and Howard' to 'Something Wild' the film, though.
Then take the title with you and move to an earlier decade, and check out the other Something Wild.. this one by Jack Garfein (1961). The film and the score are worth the time.

The film is almost impossible to see though, and will require some effort. It's continued absence on dvd just baffles me. The freaking Aaron Copeland score is on CD, but no dvd of the film, or even VHS apparently.
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Yojimbo
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:06 pm
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#252 Post by Yojimbo »

HerrSchreck wrote:
Yojimbo wrote:I prefer 'Melvin and Howard' to 'Something Wild' the film, though.
Then take the title with you and move to an earlier decade, and check out the other Something Wild.. this one by Jack Garfein (1961). The film and the score are worth the time.

The film is almost impossible to see though, and will require some effort. It's continued absence on dvd just baffles me. The freaking Aaron Copeland score is on CD, but no dvd of the film, or even VHS apparently.
Just been looking it up on IMDb, it certainly sounds an interesting one: not a million miles removed from Polanski's 'Repulsion'.

Seems it features another great Saul Bass title sequence (his title sequence for 'North by Northwest' is one of my all-time favourite) sounds like a role suited for Ralph (Kiss Me Deadly) Meeker.

btw, do you have/get to see 'Blast of Silence'?
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HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:46 pm

Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#253 Post by HerrSchreck »

Haven't bought the dvd yet, but I have a (pretty cruddy, actually) VHS provided by the director to a filmmaker friend (long before CC even licensed the film), who had burned it to dvd-r and gave the original to me. Nice dirt-budget noir. And anything with big Larry Tucker is a go for me.
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Yojimbo
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:06 pm
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#254 Post by Yojimbo »

HerrSchreck wrote:Haven't bought the dvd yet, but I have a (pretty cruddy, actually) VHS provided by the director to a filmmaker friend (long before CC even licensed the film), who had burned it to dvd-r and gave the original to me. Nice dirt-budget noir. And anything with big Larry Tucker is a go for me.
it was a nice surprise for me: some great ideas in it, given the budget, although I didn't care too much for the Lionel Stander voiceover narration.
Looked to me that there was some influence of Truffaut's 'Shoot The Pianist' and Godard's 'Breathless' but I think he denied having seen the latter prior to final cut
(I recall Kiju Yoshida made a late edit to his own debut film after he had seen 'Breathless')
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domino harvey
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:42 pm

Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#255 Post by domino harvey »

This should probably be moved to the Blast of Silence thread but on the German DVD, the director says it looks like the New Wave Films for a simple reason: they were all shot in the streets with no money!
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Yojimbo
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#256 Post by Yojimbo »

domino harvey wrote:This should probably be moved to the Blast of Silence thread but on the German DVD, the director says it looks like the New Wave Films for a simple reason: they were all shot in the streets with no money!
yes but the ending reminded me very much of 'Shoot The Pianist'
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zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:24 pm

Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#257 Post by zedz »

Into my eighties list with a bullet: Skolimowski's Hands Up!

The film was made in 1967, immediately banned (in ominous circumstances that drove the director into exile), then resurrected in 1981 with new framing material. The initial colour sequences are personal and intense, shot in London and Beirut and set to a great score. The disinterred film runs a little less than an hour and is presented in an orangey sepia (von Trier surely saw this film before shooting The Element of Crime). It's a creepy allegory in which five medical students are reunited after several years, are shut into a railway carriage filled with plaster of paris (one of their number gets semi-mummified, with a burning candle fixed to his chest) and progress through a series of mutual recriminations halfway between psychodrama and political trial. Contrastingly tinted flashbacks reveal the student incident (embodied in a spectacular, ridiculous image I won't spoil for you) that sent one of them spiralling off the gravy train of a medical career.

The action is deeply absurdist, but angry and urgent (even twice-removed in time), and Skolimowski extracts some breathtaking images from his extremely severe setting. The railway carriage is lit with candles, and in one magical shot the camera pulls way back from the scrabbling, rat-like protagonists in a corner of the wagon, across an implied space more like a warehouse than a train carriage, to reveal not just the handful of candles previously established, but hundreds of them - flickering yellow points of light in an orange industrial expanse, with the human beings that had been the focus of the film up till then reduced to pitiful figures in the corner of the shot. And then, Skolimowski slowly dims the lights, leaving just the constellation of flickering candle flames in the darkness. A simple enough shot, but it has an unexpected cosmic gravitas that makes your hair stand on end.
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domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#258 Post by domino harvey »

Okay, so I have in my possession all four tapes of Near Death in eighties-tastic black clamshells. How am I supposed to watch it, all at once or can I mete it out over a few days?
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zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:24 pm

Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#259 Post by zedz »

domino harvey wrote:Okay, so I have in my possession all four tapes of Near Death in eighties-tastic black clamshells. How am I supposed to watch it, all at once or can I mete it out over a few days?
All at once, domino. You'll need the extra days to recover.

Seriously, don't break it up if you can avoid doing so. It sort of divides up into clear sections, but they work off one another in significant ways, and there's a through-line with the staff that's complex and rewarding.
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life_boy
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:51 am
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#260 Post by life_boy »

I have two recommendations:

Water and Power (Pat O'Neill, 1989)
This was one of those revelatory films for me, despite watching it on ubuweb on my computer obviously ported from a VHS, the film still had me mouth agape and in tears through a large swath of its running time. The playful and sometimes terrifying images, layered upon each other, vying for control and changing each other as the lighting shifts or the camera pans. The soundtrack: dense and meticulous, building the metaphysical fabric of a city in constant motion, nature in a state of flux. The technical proficiency on display here is something worth noting, as the entire combination of time-lapse camera movement, animated elements, and multiple simultaneous super-impositions merged seamlessly. If you can give up an hour to watch a non-narrative film on your computer, I give this one my recommendation.
[To view online via ubuweb]

In Heaven There Is No Beer? (Les Blank, 1984)
I’m sure, for the pragmatic, Burden of Dreams is the Blank documentary to get behind this decade because of its connection to Herzog and accessibility. But for me, I can’t help but be drawn back again and again to this wonderful celebration of life, music and beer. Polka music and polka dancing never seemed so perfect. It is more representative of Les Blank as a documentarian and I completely love it. This is one of those films I use as a nightlight.

Although there is no standard DVD release (or availability for rental via Netflix, etc.) R0, NTSC DVD-R’s are available for purchase direct through Blank’s Flower Films website.

A few others worth mentioning that are likely to place high on my final list:
Sherman's March (Ross McElwee, 1986) [First Run Features DVD]
The Dante Quartet (Stan Brakhage, 1987) [CC DVD]
Something Wild (Jonathan Demme, 1986) [MGM DVD...now OOP?]
The Ties That Bind (Su Friedrich, 1985) [Microcinema DVD]
Say Amen, Somebody (George T. Nierenberg, 1982) [Rykodisc DVD]
God's Country (Louis Malle, 1986) [Eclipse DVD]
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zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:24 pm

Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#261 Post by zedz »

Housekeeping:

The new 80s List deadline is January 15, so you've still got a few weeks to go. I might not be around much until a few days before that, so don't worry if your PM seems to go into a void!
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domino harvey
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#262 Post by domino harvey »

Some thumbnail responses to recent 80s viewings:

Atlantic City A slight film brightened by Lancaster but not much else. Really, the more I think about it, the sillier the whole thing seems. How this was the Malle film the Oscars chose to embrace so enthusiastically is a little perplexing

the Aviator's Wife I don't know how Rohmer does it so consistently, but he captures young life so perceptively that even in this one film, he presents a thesis course to the entire current generation of misguided mumblecore filmmakers on how to sound natural without being awkward and how to replicate reality without sacrificing quality. I guess Ray Carney doesn't do subtitles (or subtleties)

Body Heat Outside of Chinatown and Veronica Mars, I'm not much for neo-noir, but this was a passable riff on Double Indemnity saved by Ted Danson of all people. However, I was one step ahead of every twist the whole way, which isn't a good sign for a film this proud of its machinations. Without spoiling too much, this picture definitely reveals how crucial the fatalistic endings of Classical Hollywood noirs were to their overall success

Frances An essential, elemental performance by Jessica Lange achieved in a film that doesn't deserve it. Farmer's story is an incredibly compelling one, but the film skips over most of her Hollywood traumas and focuses on her later mental illness injustices mixed with mostly fictional ephemera. The Shepherd character is a total waste, included just to periodically pop in and make things nice for Farmer every thirty minutes, but her plight would have been felt by the audience so much more without him. Not a terrible film by any definition (and it will be charting due to her strength), but Lange is so underline amazing that I wish I could recommend the film, not just her performance. Time to add more of her films to the queue

Ladies and Gentlemen, the Fabulous Stains I admired how restrained and lowkey this satire was. It would have been easy to overstretch this material beyond the film's reach, but Adler never goes too far and the picture mostly refrains from on-the-nose jabs. The music throughout it top-notch and the ending is perfect. Plus it was nice to see Diane Lane actually capable of acting for once during this project

Streets of Fire Holy Christ. This is pretty much what my childhood told me most eighties films looked like. Some catchy songs are about all to recommend in this astonishingly unpleasant "rock n roll action film" (Pretty sure that genre was born and died here) that features perhaps the most abrasive and unlikable characters ever to populate a film. It's pretty hard to name a low point in a film filled with them, but Diane Lane cozying up to a playing-it-straight Rick Moranis probably comes in second behind an inexplicable scene where the "hero" knocks Lane unconscious by pummeling her in the face for no reason. Gee, I can't imagine why this didn't start a franchise

I have several bartered number ones in my possession, so be patient while I get around to living up to my end of the bargain
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swo17
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#263 Post by swo17 »

domino harvey wrote:Lange is so underline amazing that I wish I could recommend the film, not just her performance. Time to add more of her films to the queue
If you liked Lange here, wait'lya get a load of her in Tootsie. :wink: :P
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domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#264 Post by domino harvey »

Maybe the Academy gave the Oscar to her then because they knew they'd screw up down the line and not give one to her later for a performance that merited it

Which of course means they gave her the Oscar for Blue Sky to reward Hush :P
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Cash Flagg
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:15 am

Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#265 Post by Cash Flagg »

domino harvey wrote:Ladies and Gentlemen, the Fabulous Stains I admired how restrained and lowkey this satire was. It would have been easy to overstretch this material beyond the film's reach, but Adler never goes too far and the picture mostly refrains from on-the-nose jabs. The music throughout it top-notch and the ending is perfect. Plus it was nice to see Diane Lane actually capable of acting for once during this project
...But then they had to ruin it all by including a vapid, Monkees-esque music video at the very end that seemed to be the antithesis of what the Stains supposedly stood for. Or was this sequence supposed to serve as a ironic commentary on how easily the punk ethos can be co-opted by the mainstream? I'm not sure I can give Lou Adler the benefit of the doubt.
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GringoTex
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:57 am

Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#266 Post by GringoTex »

Three Crowns of the Sailor - Mindblowing. The supreme plasticity of the images is pure latino; the alienation of family, place, and language (the result of exile) is pure anti-latino. This was my first Ruiz and I'm now scrambling to find all the others. This one's going near the top of my 80s list.
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Lemmy Caution
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:26 am
Location: East of Shanghai

Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#267 Post by Lemmy Caution »

3 Crowns is an exciting ride. Will make my list easily.

Wish I had seen earlier that people were looking for Yang's The Terroriser. It, along with a few other Yang's, was around in Shanghai this Summer. Not sure how good the quality was. I'm not much interested in Yang, so I only picked up A Brighter Summer Day which was a fairly rough "copy of a decent laserdisc" as it frankly stated on back. I'll see if The Terroriser is still available, but I doubt it. But there should be copies floating around the swap sites, I'd think, since the Dvd was here for months. Although now I can't recall whether it had English subs or not.
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Gregory
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:07 pm

Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#268 Post by Gregory »

GringoTex wrote:The supreme plasticity of the images is pure latino
What does that mean?
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GringoTex
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:57 am

Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#269 Post by GringoTex »

Gregory wrote:
GringoTex wrote:The supreme plasticity of the images is pure latino
What does that mean?
Latino art is traditionally concerned with representation rather than reality. That's representation of symbols, classes, history, etc., rather than individuals, individual identity, and especially perspective. So Ruiz is never concerned about perspective in Three Crowns. He foregrounds and backgrounds objects without worrying where he's cutting to (the opposite is Ozu, where you can measure objects in his shots/reverse shots with a laser).

The danger with this representational mode of filmmaking is that the audience fails to identify with the protagonist. I had no such trouble. I cried for the protagonist. Ruiz has his cake and eats it, too.
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Gregory
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#270 Post by Gregory »

It seems really reductive (which "tradition"?) and dependent upon using a number of terms in very specific senses with all kinds of assumptions about how they're related to one another categorically. But this isn't really the thread to discuss it, I guess.
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GringoTex
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:57 am

Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#271 Post by GringoTex »

Gregory wrote:It seems really reductive (which "tradition"?) and dependent upon using a number of terms in very specific senses with all kinds of assumptions about how they're related to one another categorically. But this isn't really the thread to discuss it, I guess.
Of course this is the thread for it. What, specifically, is reductive about my reading of the film- which readings am I disregarding? Which terms, specifically, am I making assumptions regarding categorical relations?
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Gregory
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:07 pm

Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#272 Post by Gregory »

This is a departure from discussing 1980s films because what I was asking for clarification about concerns not just this particular film (which I haven't seen, although I'm familiar with some of Ruiz's other work) but apparently the majority of art from Latin America (and possibly beyond, depending on your sense of "Latino") from all eras, or at least that's how I was reading your comments. I think it's reductive to place all such art in a single category (traditional Latino art) and I'd personally tend to avoid speaking of "traditional" characteristics of something without carefully delimiting what the tradition is and providing some context. That's part of why I was curious about your statement. Also, I didn't understand the sense of "plasticity." I'm also not sure I'm clear on how your distinctions work, between "representations" (the things you say this consists of are all highly ambiguous terms) and "reality."
Do you really think that in "traditional" Latin American cinema and literature, the reader/viewer generally fails to identify with a protagonist?
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GringoTex
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:57 am

Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#273 Post by GringoTex »

I thought you had seen the film and we would discuss it. You're right this is not the thread.
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domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#274 Post by domino harvey »

More thumbnails from the past week:

the Right Stuff Superbly cynical and ambiguous for a big budget prestige picture, which it only barely resembles, this was a pleasant surprise and will definitely be charting high. And Christ, Denis Quaid's smile is terrifying-- there's your Joker, Nolan.

the Accidental Tourist I can't remember the last film I enjoyed less than this drab dollhouse of sleepy actors. Geena Davis apparently was rewarded with an Oscar for staying awake through all the tiresome whimsy, though she's about as unbearable and illogical as anyone else on display here.

Hollywood Shuffle A sort of precursor to In Living Color's early, more successful seasons, this bit of low budget satire has something to say and says it with a rare clarity. It's unfortunate that Townshend and Wayans rally so effectively against black stereotyping only to indulge in homophobic jokes though. However, great moments like the black acting school taught by white people and the bizarre sitcom There's a Bat in My House coupled with a lesson learned still make this a successful venture.

Pretty in Pink The same story told a thousand times before and since, this mediocre version's eternal popularity with my generation is somewhat beguiling to me. Obnoxious characters and ostentatious wardrobe reinforce everything annoying about the eighties.
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Cold Bishop
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 1:45 am
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#275 Post by Cold Bishop »

With the list reaching its deadline, I feel I should atleast write about a few films. While most of these which will follow in the next few days could wait until the Defend Your Darlings thread, I feel I should atleast stick it out for a few in the hopes to change a few minds in the last second.

Two from my top 10

Come and See (Elem Klimov, 1985) Available from Kino R1
Easily my #1 pick, Elem Klimov’s film explodes the old Truffaut adage about the impossibility of making an anti-war film. Of all the films on the subject of war, I still have to say this is the most successful and my favorite (although that word seems obscene to describe a movie this horrifying). Klimov’s film dives headfirst into the carnage, but unlike, lets say, Saving Private Ryan (a film which this influenced) this film successfully presents war as a terrifying nightmare completely devoid of any glorification or excitement; a swirling, poetic fever dream which, I imagine, goes the limit as to how effective a narrative film can get in portraying the incomprehensible horror of war. It influenced Malick’s Thin Red Line also, and while its grimmer and more brutal than anything I could imagine him ever doing, one can see the affinity the film holds for Malick. The film is less a narrative than a succession of hallucinatory visions. After it, what you remember most are these short moments of savage poetry. A green field beautifully lit up by orange flares. The momentary deafness in the protagonist when a bomb drops nearby (directly cribbed, less effectively, by Spielberg). The tracking steadicam shots following the makeshift soldiers desperately searching for food. The German soldiers emerging from the fog like ghosts. The sweltering, agonizing journey through a crowded swamp filled with lamenting survivors (referencing Marketa Lazerová?) leading to a charred corpse.

Despite all the visceral carnage, the most memorably terrifying image from the film is the look of sheer terror on Aleksei Kravchenko’s face at the end of the film. This decade probably produced the two greatest performance from child actors I have ever seen: this film and Hector Barbenco’s Pixote. Crafting the film as a coming-of-age story, Kravchenko’s face, like Fernando Ramos da Silva in that film, seems to complete an impossible task: it seems to grow older, more world weary and numb, until the end where the realities of the event which has passed are devastingly impressed on their faces in a manner which seems impossible, short of actually experiencing the events yourself. That Klimov supposedly went Herzogian and had the actor hypnotized really can’t be blamed. It seems unbelievable to ask for such an performance from any child that age naturally.

The film’s only fault is that it veers near propaganda near the end with a somewhat one-dimensional portrait of the German soldiers. But this is expected: the film was commissioned as a propaganda film to commemorate the 40th anniversary of Russia’s victory. That Klimov manages to get away with such an uncompromising, unheroic vision that he does is remarkable enough, and can only be attributed to the Glasnost. Even then, he manages to portray the soldiers as naturally as possible, and there’s hint of madness in them which seems less “evil” than traumatic. There casualties of the insanity of war also. Any hint of the one-dimensional is quickly washed away by the films ending – an almost non-narrative-film-within-a-film – which posits the the atrocities of WWII and Nazism not as the result of inherently evil monsters, but of human beings potentially not unlike the victims. It’s a simple thought, but one which often gets lost when people, and especially films, try to comprehend the incomprehensible of the War and try to reimagine Nazism as a singular phenomenon. This film ultimately does away with all nationalism, and presents the war as the horror story it must be to all soldiers and civilians alike.


Les Destins de Manoel (Raoul Ruiz, 1985) Known subbed bootleg exists
I imagine I'll be this film's sole vote, which is a shame, but unavoidable considering the only way the film could be harder to see was if it was lost. I find it near impossible to try to write about this film. It seems like a work impossible to grasp in its totality after multiple viewings, let alone when you’ve only seen it once on a bootleg tape long ago (and even then, only the three part French version as opposed to the four part Portuguese). But from that one viewing, despite all the confusion and incomprehensibility, I can say it is definitely a masterpiece-of-masterpieces, and if it were ever released in its full form (by Criterion, lets say), I’d like to believe it would cause a sensation.

While Three Crowns of a Sailor and City of Pirates have both gotten some love in this thread – and both are great films which will make my 50 – I can’t help but feel that those two films (as well, I imagine, the still unseen-by-me adaptation of Treasure Island, although it may very well have been released after; you can never tell with Ruiz) feel like warm-ups for this monumental work. There’s descriptions of the film both on IMDB and rouge.com.au for those who want to know what its about. The best description I can give is that it’s a fairy-tale… not just a fairy tale, but THE fairy tale captured on film. It’s a labyrinthe phantasmagoria of dreams, fantasies, alternate realities, magical occurrences, shifting identities, colliding genres, narratives-within-narratives etc. etc. etc. A free-form web of images which could be rendered nonsensical if not for the master’s deft hand. It’s also a epic work (despite its 16mm low budget beginnings) which bears the influences and borrows freely from the works of Lewis Carroll, Robert Lewis Stevenson, H.G. Wells, the Brothers Grimm, Jorge-Luis Borges, Jacques Rivette, Luis Buñuel, Orson Welles, Sunset Boulevard and much, much more. I know a bootleg of a lone Australian broadcast is out there, and Google Video leads me to believe it may exist online in some form. It doesn’t help that the film is known under various titles, and I believe the bootleg is broadcast under Manoel dans l’île des merveilles/Manoel on the Island of Marvels (or perhaps Wonders). If anyone here more adept at tracking bootlegs down can find it, I sure hope you share. This is a lost film whose obscurity should be punishable by law.

More to come...
swo17 wrote:OK, I've checked my usual channels, and nothing. Any suggestions where to find this?
Hmm... I didn't have problems finding subtitles when I looked for it, but alas, I can't find anything now either. Only the unsubbed Chinese release. Makes me wish I kept them. I know they're out there, and they may have originated at KG, although I can't guarantee that.
Last edited by Cold Bishop on Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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