Kino

Vinegar Syndrome, Deaf Crocodile, Imprint, Kino, and more
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:46 pm

#801 Post by HerrSchreck »

Tommaso wrote:the cover blurp tells us that the off-screen commentary is read by Bergman, too. It isn't; the voice we hear is that of Erland Josephsson, which of course is equally great.
Not really true, Tom-- they say
Also featured on this DVD is Gösta Werner's 1981 documentary VICTOR SJÖSTRÖM, which recounts the life and career of the legendary Swedish director, with commentary by his longtime admirer, director Ingmar Bergman.
which seems to pretty much be advertising the fact that a huge portion of the doc consists of the onscreen comments of Bergman (obviously a major selling point).

Josephson provides the Narration for the doc from a script provided by the writers, but he doesn't personally comment on Sjostrom himself (nor would he really be in a position to, I don't think, anyway).

Nice to hear about A Man There Was, however.. I'll be picking that up now.
User avatar
nsps
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:25 am
Contact:

#802 Post by nsps »

kaujot wrote:Not a big fan of the score Kino uses for The General. Mont-Alto's is MUCH better (as is their current transfer).
I always assumed that Mont Alto had the same transfer (though not encode, of course) as the Kino. It's worth noting that the MK2 release has Joe Hisaishi's orchestral score as well as the Robert Israel version that appeared on the original Kino—not that it's better than Mont Alto's. It should be noted, however, that as long as Mont Alto didn't use the MK2 restoration, this new disc will still look WAY better.

It might be too late if Kino has already authored the disc, but perhaps we could write them some letters suggesting they add more score options (Mont Alto, Carl Davis), since the breathtaking restoration and two-discs of features will make this the definitive release of the film.
User avatar
swo17
Bloodthirsty Butcher
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:25 pm
Location: SLC, UT

#803 Post by swo17 »

I've been pretty underwhelmed by Kino's scores in general. I think I'd rather watch a slightly lower quality print if the score works better with the film. I'm curious what scores people like the most for these films:

- Sherlock Jr. (can't get much worse than the Kino)
- Caligari (I definitely prefer Tim Brock's score on the Image disc)
- Man with the Movie Camera
- The General (Mont Alto has been mentioned, but I don't know if I've heard it--does anyone know what score plays with this when they play it on TCM? I recall liking that one.)

- any other Keaton if you have a strong opinion about the score
Jonathan S
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:31 am
Location: Somerset, England

The General (Ultimate Edition)

#804 Post by Jonathan S »

What A Disgrace wrote:Looks like Kino is putting out the MK2 restoration of The General.
According to Jessica Rosner (Kino employee) on the Nitrateville forum:
It is not the MK2 version and will NOT have Railrodder or Keaton Rides
User avatar
Tommaso
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 2:09 pm

#805 Post by Tommaso »

HerrSchreck wrote:
Also featured on this DVD is Gösta Werner's 1981 documentary VICTOR SJÖSTRÖM, which recounts the life and career of the legendary Swedish director, with commentary by his longtime admirer, director Ingmar Bergman.
which seems to pretty much be advertising the fact that a huge portion of the doc consists of the onscreen comments of Bergman (obviously a major selling point).
Yes, but it is at least misleading; when I read 'commentary', I think of something being narrated all the time, whereas I would call the Bergman bits 'interview'. Especially as the end credits read "Kommentaren läst av Erland Josephsson", whereas Bergman is credited as "med personliga minnen av Ingmar Bergman" (which I believe might translate as 'with personal opinions of Ingmar Bergman"). But you're right of course that Erlandsson comments from a script not written by himself.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll love that other disc. I only hope that people here won't be put off from buying those discs because the quality of one of them is somewhat dubious.
User avatar
whaleallright
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:56 am

#806 Post by whaleallright »

The film comes from a German print, and as usual Kino replaced the original titles with English ones. These seem to come from a 19th century translation of the original Ibsen poem and work nicely, though they feel somewhat stilted. William Morris might have done this translation...
#-o The original intertitles were taken word-for-word from Ibsen's epic poem, so it's a shame that Kino has kept to their new-English-intertitles policy here. For those few who could read the original (which almost everyone in Scandanavia would have been able to recite by heart in 1917; not so sure about 2008) it's a shame to have it missing.

The original Variety review of A MAN THERE WAS, from about 1919, complained that for the US release, the Ibsen poem had been rendered in some kind of hideous mock-Olde English. I've seen video versions that used this translation. Hopefully Kino's translation is a bit better.
User avatar
Tommaso
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 2:09 pm

#807 Post by Tommaso »

jonah.77 wrote:The original Variety review of A MAN THERE WAS, from about 1919, complained that for the US release, the Ibsen poem had been rendered in some kind of hideous mock-Olde English. I've seen video versions that used this translation. Hopefully Kino's translation is a bit better.
I have the strong feeling that this is exactly the translation they used. It felt somewhat pseudo-archaic and made me smile occasionally. But there's no credit on the disc as to who did the translation. If it's indeed the 1919 one, at least we get something 'original' (though the title cards are definitely new).

A few words on "Outlaw and his wife", which I watched yesterday: I also have the feeling that the film runs too fast. Now we have learned from the recent "Metropolis" discussion that one's personal feeling about what looks like 'natural movement' can be very subjective, but one indication is that often the intertitles are on screen for a very brief time only, so much so that in a few cases I even couldn't read them completely.
However, that quick tempo didn't take too much off of my enjoyment of the film itself. Again, "Outlaw" isn't "Sir Arne", and in direct comparison I would prefer the more concentrated and lyrical "A man there was", but a lot of the landscape photography is just stunning, and Sjöström employs more often directly 'cinematic' means (lighting, for instance) than in the earlier film. I was pretty much blown away by the intensity of the ending, too. But I have to agree that the transfer quality is poor (well, it looks like the time it was made, 1986). That the print is in much worse condition than "Terje" doesn't help either, but this is hardly Kino's or the SFI's fault. Still, a hugely enjoyable disc all in all.
User avatar
Bete_Noire
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:08 am

#808 Post by Bete_Noire »

Not sure if anyone's mentioned this yet, but Imamura's Dr. Akagi has gone OOP. I think I got the last reasonably priced copy off Amazon.
User avatar
nsps
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:25 am
Contact:

Re: The General (Ultimate Edition)

#809 Post by nsps »

Jonathan S wrote:
What A Disgrace wrote:Looks like Kino is putting out the MK2 restoration of The General.
According to Jessica Rosner (Kino employee) on the Nitrateville forum:
It is not the MK2 version and will NOT have Railrodder or Keaton Rides
The good news is that it will have Carl Davis's score, a long-time favorite of many fans of the film. So we'll have a good score and a transfer that's…
NEWLY MASTERED IN HD FROM A 35MM ARCHIVE PRINT STRUCK FROM THE ORIGINAL CAMERA NEGATIVE

SPECIAL FEATURES:
- Three musical scores to choose from:
(1) Music composed and conducted by Carl Davis, performed by The Thames Silents Orchestra (in 5.1 Stereo Surround or 2.0 Stereo)
(2) Music arranged and directed by Robert Israel
(3) Theatre organ score by Lee Erwin
- A video tour of the authentic General, presented in association with The Southern Museum
- A tour of the filming locations, presented by John Bengtson, author of Silent Echoes
- Behind-the-scenes home movie footage
- Filmed introduction by Gloria Swanson
- Filmed introduction by Orson Welles
- The Buster Express, a brisk montage of train gags from throughout Keaton s career
So that begs the question—how will it compare visually? I really can't imagine anyone toping the MK2 re-master, but I certainly look forward to finding out. Time to poke around Nitrateville...

Here are the MK2 features, for reference:
Introduction By David Robinson
Restoration Featurette
Recording The 2004 Score Featurette
The Railroader
Buster Keaton Rides Again
Tinted Version Extract
Filming The General Featurette
Orson Welles Presents The General Featurette
Return Of The General Short Film
The Iron Mule Short Film
Alices Tin Pony Walt Disney Cartoon
The Great Locomotive Chase Disney Film Trailer
Filmography Featurette
Booklet
swo17 wrote:I've been pretty underwhelmed by Kino's scores in general. I think I'd rather watch a slightly lower quality print if the score works better with the film. I'm curious what scores people like the most for these films:

- Sherlock Jr. (can't get much worse than the Kino)
- Caligari (I definitely prefer Tim Brock's score on the Image disc)
- Man with the Movie Camera
- The General (Mont Alto has been mentioned, but I don't know if I've heard it--does anyone know what score plays with this when they play it on TCM? I recall liking that one.)

- any other Keaton if you have a strong opinion about the score
I like the Club Foot Orchestra's "Sherlock, Jr." score from the Kino release and Alloy's MwtMC score, but a lot of people don't like either of them. I was looking at Herr Schreck's Silent Film Music thread, which discusses the general crappiness that permeates Kino's releases. It really is disheartening, especially when you're trying to turn on people who aren't into silent film. If the score isn't working, it makes it a lot harder to get involved.
RodneySauer
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:25 pm
Location: Colorado
Contact:

#810 Post by RodneySauer »

nsps wrote:
kaujot wrote:Not a big fan of the score Kino uses for The General. Mont-Alto's is MUCH better (as is their current transfer).
I always assumed that Mont Alto had the same transfer (though not encode, of course) as the Kino. It's worth noting that the MK2 release has Joe Hisaishi's orchestral score as well as the Robert Israel version that appeared on the original Kino—not that it's better than Mont Alto's. It should be noted, however, that as long as Mont Alto didn't use the MK2 restoration, this new disc will still look WAY better.

It might be too late if Kino has already authored the disc, but perhaps we could write them some letters suggesting they add more score options (Mont Alto, Carl Davis), since the breathtaking restoration and two-discs of features will make this the definitive release of the film.
Hello from Mont Alto. My ears were burning :-)

Kino decided to use the Robert Israel score rather than ours -- they already had it available, and two "compiled from historic photoplay music" scores may have been a bit redundant, although we use different music (I compiled my score before hearing his, and we actually ended up with several identical pieces of music, although used for different scenes). Neither score is based on the original cue sheet, except for one single cue in the Robert Israel score. I hear that the Carl Davis score will also be on the new Kino disc, which is a nice addition to the available scores for GENERAL.

We did not use the same transfer as Kino. Our transfer was provided for us by David Shepard, and matches the one on the Image Entertainment disc released with the Alloy Orchestra score, and it looks beautiful and has been very well received by those who have compared them. I did my own tinting, however, and I replaced the original copyright and "The End" titles with creations of my own, so it's not really a "purist" release.

Our DVD is "self released" by a musician, and therefore has a bit more emphasis on the music than other DVDs. I made a set of optional subtitles that let you know what the title of each piece is, and who wrote it, that appears as it starts playing. I also did an optional commentary track with myself and movie critic Howie Movshovitz, with Howie talking about film-making and Buster Keaton, and me talking about musical selections and historic approaches to silent film scoring. I also created an "extra" where I go through the original historical cue sheet for the film, play some of the pieces, and discuss where I approached the film differently.

The Mont Alto DVD is self-released and not available through regular distribution channels, but you can pick it up at our shows and at www.mont-alto.com. There are links to reviews of the DVD there, which have been almost universally very positive.

And on August 27 we will be releasing a second title in our "Mont Alto Private Reserve" series, a new version of THE MARK OF ZORRO. This will feature a new transfer from a 35mm fine-grain safety; our score; a commentary track by myself, author John Tibbetts, and Denise Morrisson; and a very short feature describing how to go about scoring silent films using a music library. The film (in a more highly digitally-restored format) will also appear with the same score in the Douglas Fairbanks boxed set due out in November.
User avatar
nsps
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:25 am
Contact:

#811 Post by nsps »

Hi Rodney—thanks for all the details! (I was just discussing some other details with you on Nitrateville!)

It sounds like a very nice DVD, and I look forward to checking it out. (I was tempted to pick it up at the SF Silent Film Fest last month (nice work out there, by the way!), but was already over-budget and had to resist. I've seen the transfer in question, however, and it is nicer than the old Kino edition.

Keep up the good work!
User avatar
jsteffe
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:00 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

#812 Post by jsteffe »

This is PURELY idle speculation, but after seeing the specs for The General I'm wondering whether they're using some HD transfer supplied by Kevin Brownlow, since it's apparently not the MK2. That might help explain the presence of the Carl Davis score.

At any rate, I hope to see more Thames Silents versions revisted with new transfers, because they were always the ultimate class act. The Brownlow presentation of The Birth of a Nation towers over the competition, not to belittle the truly fine efforts of other people in this area.

I also hope that this HD transfer portends a future Blu-ray release. This is one silent that even newbies still readily connect with.
User avatar
justeleblanc
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:05 pm
Location: Connecticut

#813 Post by justeleblanc »

I just got an email from a friend telling em Eifel Tower has been postponed until further notice.
Jonathan S
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:31 am
Location: Somerset, England

#814 Post by Jonathan S »

justeleblanc wrote:I just got an email from a friend telling em Eifel Tower has been postponed until further notice.
Yes, Kino state that on their website now, without explanation. It must have been a very late decision as review copies appear to have been released.
Perkins Cobb
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:49 pm

#815 Post by Perkins Cobb »

Jonathan Rosenbaum also got a copy, per his latest CinemaScope column. Might be worth it for New Yorkers to check Kim's Video ... Kino titles sometimes street really early in NYC.
User avatar
Scharphedin2
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 11:37 am
Location: Denmark/Sweden

#816 Post by Scharphedin2 »

Kino has posted a clip from their new release of The Last Laugh on YouTube.
videozor
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:16 pm
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA

#817 Post by videozor »

I had a dream: Kino's Last Laugh would be an ultimate edition of this film.

But they did it again - a new, restored, version is presented with English translation of both intro and epilogue. Original, German, ones are moved to Extras(!).

A new dream/ wishful thinking: sometime in the future Australian Director's Suite will issue an edition, combining the best features of both MoC and Kino, and even adding a commentary (they did it with Mabase and Nosferatu, didn't they?)
User avatar
HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:46 pm

#818 Post by HerrSchreck »

CHAPTER THREE**

...the apartment was dark and quiet, save for the light rasp of air passing thru sluggish throats, dragging over dozing adenoids. Drool strung itself lightly from chin to pillow.

Suddenly, a motion, a sound. Noises of a restless sleep... knees sliding over sheets and blankets. Heavy breathing. Moaning, small wrist and feet-bones snapping as fingers ball up into fists and ankles tense up.

A sleeping Zor begins thrashing about, ratcheting up into a violence that jars his mate awake. His arms and legs start flailing in a motion vaguely resembling an attempt to swim across the surface of the bed... then as quickly as it started, the motion stops. Zor goes silent for a moment.

But it's not over. Beads of perspiration jump out onto his forehead. Zor begins shaking his head NO from side to side while muttering, slamming one side of his face onto the pillow, then repeating the motion driving the other side of his face to the downy plumpness. Suddenly he throws an arm out before him, palm out, as though trying to halt a heavenly throw of traffic--

"No!" he burps madly, chin and jaw working profusely, chewing on invisible words, working them into the manifesting compaint.. "Must not.. Ex-tra. Must no EXtra!" His eyes fly open for a moment then slam shut again, head still rocking to and fro in a never ending plea of NO. "Full German version NOW! In Feature NOWWAUUGGGHHHH!!!" Zor rocketing forward at the waist until he's sitting bolt-upright in the dark, bathed in sweat, his girlfreind standing there, staring tiredly at him from the floor, hands on her hips, eyes tired.

"Kino dream again?" she asks.

"Yeah," Zor says shyly, exhaustedly wiping sweat from his eyebrows.

"You don't mind sleeping in a cast iron box from now on do you?" she asks. "Normally don't have a problem with somnambulism but the thrashing and smashing izza bit of a problem you understand. You knocked my porcelain laminates offa my eyeteeth furchrissakes... again. Last time it was over the ghosting on Sir Arne's Treasure. Now it's Last Laugh or somesuch. So either you go inta the box or I sleep in knight's armor..."
User avatar
Jean-Luc Garbo
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:55 am
Contact:

#819 Post by Jean-Luc Garbo »

:lol: =D>
Andreas
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:11 pm

#820 Post by Andreas »

please excuse my bad english.

except from the Keaton box I bought a long time ago (and I'm not to pleased with it) I don't have any Kino-dvd's in my collection. Mainly becouse I often hear a lot of bad words about their releases + that they change original languese textsigns into english ones (hate that). But at the same time they have so many important films out on dvd, often as the only company supplying them, so I would like to ask you people with knowllege: what Kino releases are really good ones that you, without your fingers crossed, could recomend?
User avatar
skuhn8
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:46 pm
Location: Chico, CA

#821 Post by skuhn8 »

Andreas wrote:please excuse my bad english.

except from the Keaton box I bought a long time ago (and I'm not to pleased with it) I don't have any Kino-dvd's in my collection. Mainly becouse I often hear a lot of bad words about their releases + that they change original languese textsigns into english ones (hate that). But at the same time they have so many important films out on dvd, often as the only company supplying them, so I would like to ask you people with knowllege: what Kino releases are really good ones that you, without your fingers crossed, could recomend?
You're in luck: look no further than this thread dedicated to Kino titles and their quality. While you're at it, open a bottle of port and raise a toast to the monumental labors of Scharphedin2. HerrSchreck is also a wealth of information regarding the Kino catalogue (one-man PR rep); and then there's the DVDBeaver.com for the more negative-slanted assessment, but the screencaps are there for your own conclusions.
Andreas
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:11 pm

#822 Post by Andreas »

and so it has happend again, you sit and dream about the most
amazing thread just to find out it allready exists

thanks alot
Last edited by Andreas on Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Tommaso
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 2:09 pm

Re: Kino

#823 Post by Tommaso »

Gary vs Kino, part 57.

And I can't help it: the old Eureka still looks best to me (sorry, MoC).
User avatar
Thomas J.
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:32 pm
Location: Monticello

Re: Kino

#824 Post by Thomas J. »

Did Kino ever explain why they didn't put out STRIKE and OCTOBER? They announced those for Spring 07 iirc, and I never heard anything after that.

Thanks.
User avatar
HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:46 pm

Re: Kino

#825 Post by HerrSchreck »

About a week ago my eyes passed over my Kino Potemkin and was thinking the same thing.

Another thing which was supposed to be on track (for late '08 in this case) was the 'new restoration' of Bondarchuk's War And Peace. Naary a word on this now either, and the new catalog was just released.

Still, the all-time award for Pathetically Premature Press-Realease TriggerPulls must go to WB for chatting multiple times on HTF that those Metro silents (Greed, The Wind, The Crowd, Chaney box two, Scarlet Letter, etc) were just around the corner... first slated for '06, then "rescheduled" for late 07. Now slated for the year two-thousand-and-never.
Post Reply