Silent Film on DVD and BD

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Tommaso · #401 Post by **Tommaso** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:55 am

I think I mentioned it briefly in the Kino thread; but it's a film I've been enthusing about ever since the BFI released it last year. A wonderful, wonderful film, pure eye candy. Great location shoots, spectacular settings, somewhat like a 'realist' version of "Thief of Bagdad". A friend of mine told me recently this is generally seen as a blueprint for the Indian Bollywood epics of the 50s. Thankfully noone is singing here, and with only 75 min. the film is much more concentrated and well constructed. Don't miss it!

colinr0380 · #402 Post by **colinr0380** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:24 am

If you don't mind Viacom finding out your viewing details, here is a nice video for the film.

Kinsayder · #403 Post by **Kinsayder** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:57 am

I notice that Sjostrom's [i71]The Wind[/i71] and Vidor's [i71]The Crowd[/i71] are both available in Italian DVD editions (here and here).

Has anyone seen these discs? Are they any good?

myrnaloyisdope · #404 Post by **myrnaloyisdope** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:54 pm

[quotef8="Kinsayder"]I notice that Sjostrom's [if8]The Wind[/if8] and Vidor's [if8]The Crowd[/if8] are both available in Italian DVD editions (here and here).

Has anyone seen these discs? Are they any good?[/quotef8]
I would be very surprised if they are anything more than dubs from VHS or Laserdisc.

Kinsayder · #405 Post by **Kinsayder** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:15 pm

Well, I've ordered [ia4]The Wind[/ia4] to make up a parcel with that Italian Ophuls DVD. (I already have a good Laserdisc rip of the Thames Silents edition of [ia4]The Crowd[/ia4].)

I'll report back on [ia4]The Wind[/ia4] when it arrives.

Kinsayder · #406 Post by **Kinsayder** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:37 am

And here it is...

[imgcf]http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5577 ... 001yo0.jpg[/imgcf]

Quite fuzzy, probably from videotape as suggested above. English intertitles with optional Italian subs. Runtime (PAL) is 1:15:04. It looks like it's the Thames Silents version, but with a new orchestral score by Alessandro Marenga.

The only extra is a 3 min introduction by Lillian Gish (in English), which was part of the original Thames broadcast:

[imgcf]http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8507 ... 002vh6.jpg[/imgcf]

Luke M · #407 Post by **Luke M** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:07 pm

I understand Kino's The Man Who Laughs appears to be the best available. Is there any news that Eureka may release this overseas? Or that some company is working on a better version?

HerrSchreck · #408 Post by **HerrSchreck** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:50 pm

I don't even know that there's another one available for it to even [i7d]be [/i7d]"the best"! As far as I know it's the only dvd release of the film, made in conjunction w Universal (who restored the preservation audio tracks) and the digibeta resulting from the excellent photochemical restoration in Italy by Cineteca del commune/Bologna & L'Immagine Ritrovata (the same guys who do all the lab work for FW Murnau Stftung, Martin Koerber, Munichfilmmuseum's Nero releases, etc). It's not owned by the Murnau foundation-- say, like Leni's Waxworks-- since it was made in America and the rights are maintained by Universal who licensed it directly to Kino (that batch a couple yrs ago that included the 2 Mamoulians, the Wylers and perhaps 1 or 2 others that escape me now). The pq of the resto is at CC levels (definitely better than say Pandora or even Vampyr).. although if someone does release it in Europe, they might have the advantage because I THINK the master is PAL.. I'm not positive though. You can be sure they'll be working from the same wonderful master.

The disc has a nice booklet by Jon Soister on the making of the film, and a bevy of digital extras. So many more people need to see the films of Paul Leni it's just not funny. And the day I get to upgrade my blecchy old vhs bootleg tape of the super-rare, impossible to see [i7d]The Last Warning[/i7d], I will fucking leap with joy.

Oggilby · #409 Post by **Oggilby** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:57 pm

Any advice on the right R2 DVDs to get for Buster Keaton's films?

From what I can find...

The MoC box seems the best for the shorts (all the Arbuckle collaborations, plus all of Keaton's two-reelers). The MK2 set has all the pre-MGM features except for The Saphead, with top quality for most of the films.

Are the two boxes the right ones to import for an alternative to Kino's box set? Any thoughts on the music scores?

HerrSchreck · #410 Post by **HerrSchreck** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:03 am

Yea those Kino Keatons, though amazing undertakings at the dawn of the dvd age, have been superceded qualitatively by those Pal editions (though some of them still hold up pretty well). I'm just going by what Ive seen on the Beaver comps and heard thru word of mouth. I don't own any of those feature sets. But if you're PAL-able, MK2 is definitely the way to go, it'd seem.

Cold Bishop · #411 Post by **Cold Bishop** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:38 am

Plus, The Saphead isn't a particularly good film outside of the stock exchange scene.

Luke M · #412 Post by **Luke M** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:59 am

[quote2b="HerrSchreck"]I don't even know that there's another one available for it to even [i2b]be [/i2b]"the best"! As far as I know it's the only dvd release of the film, made in conjunction w Universal (who restored the preservation audio tracks) and the digibeta resulting from the excellent photochemical restoration in Italy by Cineteca del commune/Bologna & L'Immagine Ritrovata (the same guys who do all the lab work for FW Murnau Stftung, Martin Koerber, Munichfilmmuseum's Nero releases, etc). [/quote2b]
Thanks a lot. From what I saw there's another release from Sunrise Silents that can be ordered here.

HerrSchreck · #413 Post by **HerrSchreck** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:09 am

O jeez... wrong projection speed (144 min!?), gaudy electronic color tints over 16mm encoded on a dvd-r... no extras & 21 bucks?? ach! gott im himmel!.

Scharphedin2 · #414 Post by **Scharphedin2** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:14 am

[quote13="Oggilby"]Any advice on the right R2 DVDs to get for Buster Keaton's films?

From what I can find...

The MoC box seems the best for the shorts (all the Arbuckle collaborations, plus all of Keaton's two-reelers). The MK2 set has all the pre-MGM features except for The Saphead, with top quality for most of the films.

Are the two boxes the right ones to import for an alternative to Kino's box set? Any thoughts on the music scores?[/quote13]
I think this thread should be of help to you.

Danny Burk · #415 Post by **Danny Burk** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:23 pm

[quote02="Luke M"]Thanks a lot. From what I saw there's another release from Sunrise Silents that can be ordered here.[/quote02]
Ewwww. I hadn't heard about that one.....it doesn't count. Don't consider anything but the Kino.

Michael · #416 Post by **Michael** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:31 pm

Color tinted? NO no no NO! That's so wrong. I just saw [b44]The Man Who Laughed[/b44] (Kino) and god, it has some of the most luxurious, haunting use of black & white, that harrowing contrast of black & white on the Man's face in the mirror would be horribly lost if tinted in color.

Michael Shetina · Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:59 pm

[quote49="HerrSchreck"]And the day I get to upgrade my blecchy old vhs bootleg tape of the super-rare, impossible to see The Last Warning, I will fucking leap with joy.[/quote49]
I had no idea that watchable copy of [i49]The Last Warning[/i49] was still extant!

HerrSchreck · #418 Post by **HerrSchreck** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:55 pm

My vhs is cruddo, but the film itself underneath the dupe noise (some say this is a 16mm, which may be possible, but an excellent one) is near pristine. I believe you see an excerpt of it in Universal Horror, where the spider dangles way down in front of the actress causing her (I think its a her, havent watched it in awhile) to swoon.

The opening montage of Broadway is absolutely sublime. Devilishly stylish all the way thru, in fact. John Boles from Frankenstein has a big turn in this. As well as Margaret Livingston, the girl from the city in Sunrise.

Bret Wood was talking about bringing this film out to dvd viz Kino... if The Man Who Laughs did well. Also Reinert's [i44]Opium[/i44].

Michael Shetina · Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:11 pm

The rather creepy and wonderfully atmospheric clip in Universal Horror is the only actual footage I've seen of it and Brownlow was ambiguous as to its survival status (one of the interviewees expresses doubt as to its existence), so this is great news for me.

Jonathan S · #421 Post by **Jonathan S** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:54 am

[quote67="Metropolisforever"]Browsing the forums, I was surprised to find that there were no topics about Grapevine Video ...

If you want to share your experiences with Grapevine, go ahead[/quote67]
As a silent film enthusiast, I have dozens of Grapevines. They are extremely variable in quality; although the worst might be described as "very poor" I find many of them very acceptable (even when I project onto a large wall screen) and some - usually those transferred from 35mm (most are 16mm) - are quite impressive for a one-man band. Of course, none of them reaches the heights of the best releases from MoC, etc. I think one has to judge them by different standards as many of their films will probably never be released elsewhere.

All except two of Grapevine's releases are DVD-Rs (oddly the two replicated discs are among the worst quality, especially [i67]The Perils of Pauline[/i67]). As a rule of thumb, their releases of European silents are to be avoided, partly because they tend to be US release prints. Their best quality titles tend to be silent American B pictures, and these are the kind of films nobody else is likely to issue. Many of them have very nice music tracks, compiled from old recordings but expertly synchronised; in fact, due to their period flavour, I often prefer them to the anachronistic musical offerings that sometimes accompany silents on better-known labels.

I don't have their [i67]Zvenigora [/i67]but it probably is poor. If there are any other titles you are interested in, I'll check if I have them. Incidentally, Grapevine offer a no-quibble refund if you are dissatisfied with any of their discs.

Felix · #422 Post by **Felix** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:36 pm

[quote54="Jonathan S"] I don't have their [i54]Zvenigora [/i54]but it probably is poor. [/quote54]
It is, but it could be worse (on a 32" LCD). It is better than Facets PD silent films but a bit worse than the usual versions of Earth doing the rounds. Where the image is fairly simple, such as faces, the detail is fine, but it falls down on the more complex shots and the definition goes. The music is OK, cobbled together from various sources, Rimsky-Korsakov for one, but cut to fit the sequences and if isn't great at least it doesn't contradict the images.

So, given what one's expectations would be, it isn't too bad. More to the point, given how under-represented Dovzhenko is on DVD, anyone who has enjoyed Arsenal and Earth should consider this, even if it isn't as good a film.

Scharphedin2 · #423 Post by **Scharphedin2** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:54 pm

There is some further discussion of Grapevine and other labels like it in this thread.

HerrSchreck · #424 Post by **HerrSchreck** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:02 pm

There's also a thread on Dovzhenko they might want to check out since it mentions Grapevine if I remember correct.

nsps · #425 Post by **nsps** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:25 pm

[quotec6="HerrSchreck"]Yea those Kino Keatons, though amazing undertakings at the dawn of the dvd age, have been superceded qualitatively by those Pal editions (though some of them still hold up pretty well). I'm just going by what Ive seen on the Beaver comps and heard thru word of mouth. I don't own any of those feature sets. But if you're PAL-able, MK2 is definitely the way to go, it'd seem.[/quotec6]
I saw the MK2 versions of The General, College and Steamboat Bill, Jr. when they premiered at Cannes, and can vouch for their outstanding picture quality. Three Ages was also restored, and those four restored films are available outside of the big boxed set from Cinema Club in the UK (The General in one two-disc release—same as in France—the remaining three in another). From what I understand, the print quality is the same on the others, but the new encodes are better. Depending on your budget, you might want to consider grabbing those four films, and sticking with Kino for the others, especially if you already own the Kinos. If not, I guess evaluate your finances. If you buy the French box, you'll have a cool booklet that's French only, so if you can't read the language, it might be a disappointment.

The contents of the French and UK releases of The General are the same, so you can pick your favorite based on package design and available pricing. They contain Joe Hisaishi's new score and Robert Israel's old one.

Many still hold Carl Davis' score for The General (which I haven't heard) in very high esteem, but it is only available with the "Buster Keaton Chronicles" release, which is not in the same league as the MK2 restorations in terms of PQ.

The MoC shorts release is supposed to be quite good (they're progressive vs. the interlaced French set from Arte, and have three minutes of the Cook that were missing from the Arte release) but the price of importing it has kept me away thus far. If you don't already have the Kino releases and/or the Arbuckle-Keaton shorts, it might just be worth it to just import the French box and the shorts box.

Also, if you live near Costco, I recently saw TCM's Keaton set at the one near my house for $18— which is $12 cheaper than you can usually find it. That'd be a nice way to round out your collection with the beginning of the MGM era. (It's a bit sad to see how much freedom Keaton loses in the span of two movies, but the set is worth having for "The Cameraman" and the better moments of "Spite Marriage." I don't know if all Costcos stock the same DVDs all the time or not, but I thought I'd share.

The four new MK2 Keaton transfers would be a great way for silent film to enter the HD market, but I'm not sure if it'll ever happen or not.

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