'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.1

[JHunter]

Two oft-repeated words: Chico Ejiro. Peace.

Let me guess, the box will be called "New Nigerian Cinema".

It will feature a sticker on the front reminding retailers to periodically wipe the dust off the set.

[Cinephrenic]

[Gregory]

Gregory's post makes an incorrect assumption. The films which remain in the art house periphery today are those films and directors that have been kept alive via academic critical teaching and writing. There is more written about the German films you mention than the Latin American ones, and it is the continued visibility of discussed films which keeps them alive. You want save a film? Write about it, and not on the internet.

Just in case there was any confusion, my point wasn't that Latin American films are as marketable as films by Lang and Fassbinder. It was a parallel-universe kind of thought experiment to show that a lot of the arguments people make about why people shouldn't press for quality affordable DVDs of films from a given area have everything to do with their own prejudices and tastes. Someone whose tastes run a little bit more to the mainstream would probably argue that it's completely understandable that it took Criterion so long to release any Mizoguchi on DVD because, after all, so few people know anything about or even care about that stuff. They would have a point, unfortunately, but that doesn't mean it's wrong to press Criterion to take a risk and release things as much as possible just because they're important, to some of us at least.

But to address your point, there is vastly more writing on classic Latin American film than there is availability of those films on DVD or even VHS. I know people who teach courses on Latin American history who include a film component, and while they have no problem finding texts they have to enlist my help and that of specialist librarians finding a few relevant DVDs or tapes to show the students. I could cite an extremely long list of scholarly sources on the topic, but if you look at the films they discuss almost none of them are available for the average person to see. Many students read John King's book Magical Reels in courses that deal with Latin America and film, for example, but it's pretty much impossible to see 98% of the films he discusses, no exaggeration. There is no shortage of scholarly writing on this topic (and I do hope to add a bit to it in the future) but few people even among cinephiles, would seek out and read this stuff. There is a shortage of critical writing on this, because few critics really care about these films, and part of the reason for this is that so little of it is available. While scholars will watch films in libraries and archives on 16mm, critics mostly watch older films in arthouse retrospectives and on DVD, etc. It's a vicious cycle that plagues many forgotten films, and one of the best things about Criterion, and to an even greater extent MoC, Second Run, Kino, and Milestone, is that they're often on the cutting edge of re-introducing things like this.
But as far as the types of films I'm discussing, this problem doesn't stop Facets from releasing this stuff, so I don't see why it should stop all the better labels from doing the same for their part. If New Yorker can release Vidas Secas, I don't see why Eclipse (for example) couldn't put out similar stuff.
(Sorry to add to an off-topic discussion.)

[Thomas J.]

Jeff,

In short, the way to "fix it" is for we as a culture to collectively push back against hegemony. Heck, a poster already wrote that film students don't even know who Mizoguchi is, and Mizoguchi is in every Intro to World Cinema / Film History book. I was already operating on the grounds that Mizoguchi is a vastly known entity.

If we collectively can generate a groundswell of opinion that corporations can't afford to ignore, then we'll have accomplished our goal, because they'll be forced to break the mold. One of the first steps to take to accomplish this goal is to stir the waters of acceptance of hegemony, as I'm doing in some meager fashion. A lot of people naturally accept the status-quo, and this applies to film culture as well. Therein lies the challenge and conflict.

Do I think this goal WILL be accomplished -- In all likelihood, judging from related cultural events, "the problem" won't really reach mass recognition until it's too late (e.g. global warming). I've grown somewhat cynical about it -- and when Criterion announces "Last Year at Marienbad" next month for their monthly French release, I'll continue to laugh out of resignation.

[swo17]

So how long will it take after Criterion adopts your business plan until you start complaining about the monthly release from Uganda?

[depositio]

Just to add one more installment in the unfortunate digression from the "random speculation"... seems to me that Gregory and ThomasJ are simply pointing out that the limits of the Criterion Collection are such that it has a kind of built in obsolescence. It is the finest in world cinema a la Bordwell. That said, they sure make beautiful DVDs.
The arguments that some Criterion cultists around here bandy around about bottom lines are the typical wallpaper of bulletin boards which focus on things that people love (to have, to do, to be, to become) in our time.... Global cinema is vastly bigger than any angle Criterion's ever established on it--which is not to dispute that the angles Criterion has taken on it have had (at times more, at times less) authentic elegance and excellence. Still... it's understandable that many tempers flare when someone points out the incompleteness of something they have regarded and protect as integral. Feeble on its face (by contrast with most posts on films) the cries of "market dictates" that so many rally to... The explanation about "family business" that's been suggested by a few may have a stronger foothold. But there have been transitions in Criterion's profile in the past and there will be in the future. Affirmative action at its best.

[Steven H]

If we collectively can generate a groundswell of opinion that corporations can't afford to ignore, then we'll have accomplished our goal, because they'll be forced to break the mold. One of the first steps to take to accomplish this goal is to stir the waters of acceptance of hegemony, as I'm doing in some meager fashion. A lot of people naturally accept the status-quo, and this applies to film culture as well. Therein lies the challenge and conflict.

I would love to be enlightened about all the directors Criterion has been neglecting. One of the most fascinating aspects of this forum is the exposure many heretofore relatively neglected great filmmakers have gotten (at least for me.) Why don't you write reviews of all these non-hegemonic films we're missing out on? Get people excited about it. Just saying "hey Criterion, do it for me" isn't good enough. If there's so much "challenge and conflict" expose it, but be specific. Some of our best members are the ones that are passionate about films they feel have been unjustly ignored.

[magicmarker]

If we collectively can generate a groundswell of opinion that corporations can't afford to ignore, then we'll have accomplished our goal, because they'll be forced to break the mold. One of the first steps to take to accomplish this goal is to stir the waters of acceptance of hegemony, as I'm doing in some meager fashion. A lot of people naturally accept the status-quo, and this applies to film culture as well. Therein lies the challenge and conflict.

You're hardly 'stirring the waters of acceptance of hegemony.' You are proposing that Criterion include more films from non-European/North American countries (Japan doesn't count). Asking a DVD company like Criterion to sell some 'non-canonical films' is hardly forcing it to break its mold. Indeed, Criterion's mold (and mission statement) can adequately accommodate Latin American, African, avant-garde etc. films. And what you are implying is that Criterion is ignoring such films because of a Eurocentric bias.

But other factor are at play here. Let's forget 'market forces' for a while (though they are related). You are ignoring are the complexities of securing rights, and finding and restoring prints. Part of the reason Criterion releases the French and Japanese films that so offend you is because they have well established relationships with the likes of Rialto and Shochiku. But even these connections can be difficult to negotiate (see the OOP Studio Canal releases). Additionally Criterion benefits from the work of publicly funded institutions such as the Bundesarchiv and Cineteca di Bologna (see Threepenny Opera and Vampyr). That there aren't comparable relationships with African or Latin American production and distribution companies or film archives has less to do with Criterion and more to do with broader economic considerations. We can lobby Criterion for a Rocha or a Guzman film all we want, but if they can't license the film or find a partner to do the restoration, they won't be able to release it.

Take for instance the Eisenstein Silents. Here we have a perfectly 'marketable' director, sufficiently European, and well established in film history and academia, but Criterion has been unable to produce the long-promised box-set because of problems with getting access to adequate prints and holding on to distribution rights. On the other hand, they did release the By Brakhage set, even though it is certainly on the periphery of 'hegemonic film culture'.

While I'd desperately like to see Hour of the Furnace, Battle of Chile, Land in Trance, Where is the Friend's House? and others released in high quality editions, I also am not going to accuse Criterion or other members of this forum of being ignorant (willfully or otherwise) of world cinema (though I might tell them about a wonderful film I saw and why they should too).

So please, lobby Criterion to release whatever neglected film you like (which ones are they again?), but also lobby your regional and federal governments (and those of others) to adequately fund film libraries, archives, and independent distributors, exhibitors and producers who help make these Criterion releases possible. And if you want to fight hegemony, perhaps radicalizing a DVD forum should be second on your list. Maybe don't buy DVDs at all... but now I'm being condescending... My apologies.

EDIT: Back to speculating... whatever happened to the Cinema Novo titles that Robert Stam apparently had convinced Criterion to license?

[GringoTex]

In short, the way to "fix it" is for we as a culture to collectively push back against hegemony. Heck, a poster already wrote that film students don't even know who Mizoguchi is, and Mizoguchi is in every Intro to World Cinema / Film History book. I was already operating on the grounds that Mizoguchi is a vastly known entity.

So by ensuring that there are no Mizoguchi DVDs available in the U.S., Criterion would be pushing back against cultural hegemony?

I think your Critical Cultural Studies 101 is interfering with common sense.

[CSM126]

"By God, if you won't give me my Chico, you can't have your Bergman!"

I love the "we either both suffer or both prosper. No middle ground, dammit!" attitude. Worked so well for communism.

[MuzikJunky]

"By God, if you won't give me my Ejiro, you can't have your Bergman!"

Yeah, your 64-film Chico Ejiro single DVD was really funny. All that’s missing is a Criterion logo on the upper left. ’Specially since he’s directed even more than 64 movies.

After Chico Ejiro, you can add Halie Gerima, Kiyoshi Kurosawa, Mani Ratnam, Guru Dutt, Theo Angelopoulos, Abbas Kiarostami, and the Ramsay brothers; and the films Yûreka, Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge, and Asoka to the list. Peace.

[Cinephrenic]

"By God, if you won't give me my Ejiro, you can't have your Bergman!"

Yeah, your 64-film Chico Ejiro single DVD was really funny. All that’s missing is a Criterion logo on the upper left. ’Specially since he’s directed even more than 64 movies.

After Chico Ejiro, you can add Halie Gerima, Kiyoshi Kurosawa, Mani Ratnam, Guru Dutt, Theo Angelopoulos, Abbas Kiarostami, and the Ramsay brothers; and the films Yûreka, Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge, and Asoka to the list. Peace.

That was just the sticker suggestion. Maybe Swimminghorses will design a cover soon. Lol. A little humor wont hurt. Peace.

[Doctor Sunshine]

I feel like I'm getting off topic here but maybe it'll seem less so once the bulk of this gets moved to the Thomas J: Difference Maker navel gazing thread.

Marc Walkow confirms some of our speculation on the Nikkatsu Action sets. It looks to be two Eclipse sets and likely two Criterion releases in 2009.

For those keeping track, A Colt Is My Passport will be in one of the Eclipse sets. Janus has held the rights to Velvet Hustler, The Warped Ones (incidentally, Something Weird have the dubbed, truncated version on VHS and DVD-R as The Weird Lovemakers), Red Handkerchief and a couple other Suzukis since at least 2001. Four titles come from the Outcast retro--which, unless Walkow's including the titles Janus already owned, means they have to be Glass Johnny: Looks Like a Beast, Roughneck, Plains Wanderer and Colt--and the other three are likely the early Suzukis and maybe something else (hopefully Slaughter Gun or Black Sun.)

A couple other companies are also pursuing these films, including Kino who've picked up Suzuki's Detective Bureau 23: Go to Hell, Bastards!

[starmanof51]

I was already operating on the grounds that Mizoguchi is a vastly known entity.

So now that Blindeside has pointed out that just isn't true (which I find hard to believe you ever thought; really? Mizoguchi "vastly known"?) I suppose you're no longer laughing at the idea of the Mizo Eclipse box?

[swo17]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the only available R1 releases of Mizoguchi films are the ones that Criterion has put out. Seems like a pretty good delivery on the mission statement if you ask me.

[Napier]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the only available R1 releases of Mizoguchi films are the ones that Criterion has put out. Seems like a pretty good delivery on the mission statement if you ask me.

I have the Image disc of 47 Ronin. I'll sell it for a cool $120.00

[swo17]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the only available R1 releases of Mizoguchi films are the ones that Criterion has put out. Seems like a pretty good delivery on the mission statement if you ask me.

I have the Image disc of 47 Ronin. I'll sell it for a cool $120.00

That opens an old wound. I made the mistake of not catching 47 Ronin when IFC aired it several months ago, because I thought I had seen that it was available on Netflix. Turns out the version they have is (a remake?) directed by Ichikawa.

[Napier]

Eventually Criterion will get around to Mizoguchi's 47 Ronin since it is an Image disc and Image distribute Criterion. While not having seen Ichikawa's take on the age old tale of the loyal 47 retainers, Hiroshi Inagaki's Chusingura is great, and in print. But I will still sell my disc for $120.00.

[mteller]

Turns out the version they have is (a remake?) directed by Ichikawa.

Not a remake, just one of MANY adaptations of the same story. I love Ichikawa, but his take on it is the dullest of the three I've seen (Ichikawa, Mizoguchi, Inagaki). Although the subtitles on the DVD are horrible, so that didn't help.

[JonoQ]

If you're looking for DVDs of Patricio Guzman's films, Criterion can't help you. The rights to all his films are controlled by First Run/Icarus. A VHS of Battle of Chile can be yours for the low price of $490.

[magicmarker]

Perhaps now that First Run/Icarus are selling their Marker films on DVD for reasonable prices they might put out other parts of their catalogue for non-institutional rates.

[HerrSchreck]

It's difficult to make a convincing argument when the example you put forth to refute my assertion of monthly "French Criterions" is itself a French Criterion.

Actually I said

Nothing for Shepitko, Klein, Vampyr, Missing, Ophuls... notwithstanding the desert of Mizo in R1.

Thomas "The affirmative-action-dvd-troll" J, ladies and gentlemen.

Dude, you're colorlessly nuts. I can't even read your posts anymore. It's just too tiresome.

First, you're still not refuting my point about Ophuls being a French Criterion release. Just admit you messed up. It's not a big deal. This is just the Internet -- no need to be embarrassed.

If standing up for equal representation is tiresome to you, then just keep it moving and don't read my posts. Fact of the matter is that I've received multiple messages from people who agree with me. Not to mention that these matters are a big component of academic film theory these days.

Again, I'm happy for the Shepitko, VAMPYR, etc.

Moving on...

Brand Upon The Brain, Vampyr, Mon Oncle Antoine, Small Black Room, The Furies, William Klein, Larissa Shepitko, Before The Rain, Missing, Mishima-- A Life In 4 Chapters, Thief of Bagdhad, Blast of Silence, Death of a Cyclist, Mafioso, The Ice Storm, Walker, Two Lane Blacktop, This Sporting Life, The Naked Prey, Miss Julie, Sawdust & Tinsel, Under the Volcano, Days of Heaven, Aki Kaurismaki, Lubitsch Musicals.

Yep-- nothing but Japanese & French stuff. Just look over the past approx six months. A clunky, staid, fast-as-molasses stereotype wedged into quicksand of Tokyo and Paris. (Sneeze)

Tom, here's a word of friendly advice, as you're a not-unintelligent guy (I'm feeling kindly today). It doesn't give a you a veneer of intelligence, there's no (raise index finger to the sky) "AHA!!" quotient by saddling up and riding into town on the board and "calling" criterion on it's releasing patterns. Anyone can see that they are bound to the Janus library, and-- beyond licensing agreements for previously not-distributed titles (i e Days of Heaven, Blast of Silence, etc) that sees them getting a little adventurous/unpredictable-- they are going to hew to the demands of the heap of films passed down to them. Fact is the Janus label is responsible for bringing all those bergmans & Kurosawas to US consciousness in the 60's, they helped "make" their names and reputations.. so it would be absurd for them not to milk their inherited cash cows.

Everybody has their own special wish... muzikjunky comes in out of the fog, dries his leather jacket, begs for Bollywood and Chico Ej, raises his two fingers, and -- "Peace"-- disappears into the mist to sounds of motorcycles. I wish they'd handle more silent and impressionist films. But we're not going to get them because they are who they are and-- unfortunately-- the "By Brakhage"s are always going to be few and far between. Overintellectualizing the discussion viz "cultural studies 101" is not really relevant. This is not the Public Library... your tax dollars are not at work wherein you expect to be served a rounded platter of culture. It's a private company that does what it will, and it doesn't have the flexibility it had on the LD line owing to inventing/having a lock on the technology. Back in the LD days they could grab anything they wanted because it was their niche. Nowadays they're surrounded by competitors, and they do what they do according to their existing model/library.

Regarding support in your Inbox-- everybody here has something they'd love to see CC do. I do, Jeff does, we all wish our favorite films could get the CC treatment. You are not cradling an obscure truth in your rarefied, eclectic, avant arms.. a truth that the sun rarely touches, a truth truly for those who Know, for those who have It. It's the oldest complaint-- however most people start out with their own set of demands, rather than just jump on and rake the company itself as though it were a mere parody of it's once glorious self. And I disagree about it being all Japanese & French-- look at the past year.

And fyi Ophuls is no more French than Carl Dreyer was when he made his French films, or Sirk was American when he made his films. Or Lang was in America, etc. He was an expat German who moved over to France, and frankly his films bear about as much resemblance to "classic French cinema" as does Dreyer's The Passion of Joan of Arc.. or Sunrise did to a Fairbanks epic or Lloyd comedy of 1927.

[swo17]

A preview of Thomas J.'s response:

Yep-- nothing but Japanese & French stuff...Tom, here's a word of friendly advice,...I...a...m...absurd...Everybody has their own special wish...I...love...You....the company...were a mere parody of it's once glorious self. And I...agree about it being all Japanese & French-- look at the past year...Ophuls...films bear...a...resemblance to "classic French cinema"...

Your response makes me laugh almost as much as Criterion's release schedule. Thanks for finally agreeing with me though.

Regards, TJ

[tryavna]

Turns out the version they have is (a remake?) directed by Ichikawa.

Not a remake, just one of MANY adaptations of the same story. I love Ichikawa, but his take on it is the dullest of the three I've seen (Ichikawa, Mizoguchi, Inagaki). Although the subtitles on the DVD are horrible, so that didn't help.

Fukasaku also adapted the story in 1979 (and it's released in the U.S. as Swords of Vengeance). Unfortunately, it's probably his stodgiest film.

To Swo17: Not to fear about missing IFC's showing of Mizoguchi's version. IFC has a fairly small library of samurai films that it works its way through about every 30-40 weeks, so both parts will almost certainly show again within the next nine months. (Much rarer, however, are the occasional Nakagawa films they suddenly show without fanfare. I'm still kicking myself for missing the last one.)

To revert back to Criterion's raison d'etre: I think I'm in agreement with Jeff and Schreck. As much as Criterion has played around with its "brand"/"mission statement," the key to its identity (for me, anyway) has always been its connection to Janus. That's a legacy that Criterion has inherited, and while that also means that they've also inherited responsibility for the international art-house canon (which Janus helped to build), they would be silly not to build a business model around it.

By the way, as much as I usually agree with Gregory, I'm really surprised that he's questioning the economic explanations that so many members here have used to explain (and perhaps even excuse) Criterion's seemingly willful blindness to "Third World" cinema. I mean, it's not like we're operating totally in the dark here. We get quite a bit of information about the economics of niche DVD labels from Peerpee and MicahelB -- both of whom offer some chilling insights into just how razor-thin the margin of error is for this business. Of course, Criterion probably has more stability and buffer-room in this area than most, but I imagine that some of their decisions about what to exclude are made regretfully -- based on what they think they can afford.

Having said all that, I also want to echo StevenH's comments about how much this forum in and of itself has helped break down the "hegemony" for me. Within the past year or so, I feel like I've made two pretty major discoveries (Rocha and Angelopoulus), thanks to members of this forum. And since I'm fully multi-regional, that's happened without Criterion's involvement. Let's face it, Criterion is not the last (or only) word on international cinema -- not even in the United States (though, as Gregory points out, some of the alternatives don't put as much effort into their releases as they should: Facets, New Yorker, etc.).

[Gregory]

If you're looking for DVDs of Patricio Guzman's films, Criterion can't help you. The rights to all his films are controlled by First Run/Icarus. A VHS of Battle of Chile can be yours for the low price of $490.

Exactly -- and that's why I mentioned that as an example of how bad things are, not as a suggestion for a possible future Criterion release. I guess it's no use lamenting that Facets, First Run/Icarus, and New Yorker own the rights to so many things they'll never get around to releasing, or will release with VHS-quality image and/or terrible subtitle translations. That's the way things have turned out. I also realize that Criterion is what it is, and I am not suggesting that they cut back on films from France, Japan, etc. With the advent of Eclipse, the number of films the company releases per year has gone up substantially. Criticism of Eclipse for playing it safe is relevant here, although that's a discussion that's already taken it's course.
Again, to distinguish my own position from Thomas J.'s, I see this as a problem that covers the whole home video market, not just a problem with what Criterion is or isn't doing. Kino, for example, has released a small handful of 20th century African titles, but only one Latin American film from the same period (Hour of the Star -- and it looks absolutely terrible, has burned in subs, etc., but as disappointing as that is it's somewhat beside the main point I'm making about the mere problem of making films available to individuals). So, while I sympathize with Thomas J's frustration in some ways, I'm not sure it's fair to single out Criterion for something that is in fact very widespread.

I don't mean to ruin anyone's fun by repeatedly trying to introduce nuanced points into this discussion or by suggesting that there might be some areas on which all can agree. I'll let everyone get back to the row focused on Thomas J now.