MoC Forthcoming, Wishlist, and Random Speculation

[StevenJ0001]

It's disheartening to learn of sluggish sales for such a magnificent set of discs. Then again, mass public taste rarely fails to disappoint me.

Hopefully they'll continue to sell over the coming weeks and months as discerning people discover them.

zone_resident, I'm curious: what about Blu-Ray technology do you see as unimpressive? Or are you just happy enough with DVD image quality that you don't see the need to upgrade?

[Perkins Cobb]

Future acquisitions will be geared around Blu-ray releases.

Ominous, given how many of MOC's best releases thus far (i.e., black & white Academy ratio) are not exactly poster children for Blu-ray upgrades. It's hard not to interpret this as pressure for MOC to release a larger ratio of films from the '80s & beyond.

I, too, am distressed to learn that the Mizoguchi and especially the Naruse DVDs undersold and that this may have delayed or cancelled plans to license more. A real shame.

[Skritek]

I really don't see the problem here. Why it is certainly sad for many that there won't be more Japanese classics coming, there still are more than enough films and directors who deserve to get a quality release (see Pialat, Dumont), many that are even less known than Naruse or Mizoguchi.


Sometimes it seems like people on this board always want the same things instead of being happy that something different and maybe unexpected will come.

[Steven H]

Sometimes it seems like people on this board always want the same things instead of being happy that something different and maybe unexpected will come.

We're a hardheaded lot with a lot of passion about specific favorites, yeah. Its a blessing and a curse.

I for one have been hearing *nothing* but good things from all the people that recently caught Okamoto's Age of Assassins (Epoch of Murder and Madness) at the Nakadai retro in NY recently. Now *that* film needs to come out somewhere, sometime, very very soon. Its hilarious. Maybe MoC should take a dip in the Intelligent Extremely Entertaining 60s Japanese Comedy pool?

Also, I can't help but think that the dollar's downward turn has affected possible MoC-US sales. I know I've had to think twice about a number of overseas purchases lately I wouldn't have a few years ago.

[StevenJ0001]

I really don't see the problem here. Why it is certainly sad for many that there won't be more Japanese classics coming, there still are more than enough films and directors who deserve to get a quality release (see Pialat, Dumont), many that are even less known than Naruse or Mizoguchi.

I want to see more Pialat etc released in good editions also, but if they are released and sell no better than the Mizoguchis, what then? I think the pity is that quality doesn't always sell, and yet what sells often determines what is produced in future. Just one of those unfortunate truths, I guess. Luckily for us, companies like MOC and others remain fairly gutsy about what they release, despite not everything they put out being a guaranteed moneymaker.

[ZizouJuve]

We'd very much like to release more Mizoguchi, and had hoped to release more in the future (this hope may have been the source of Gary's comment) but at the moment, the eight we've just released have not sold as well as Eureka had hoped.

The only thing that keeps me from snatching up all of those Mizoguchi's is the horrible exchange rate right now with the dollar. I'm sure if things level out sometime we'll see a huge rise in purchases. Its a shame that in a great year of Region 2 releases the dollar hasn't cooperated.

[Michael Kerpan]

The only thing that keeps me from snatching up all of those Mizoguchi's is the horrible exchange rate right now with the dollar. I'm sure if things level out sometime we'll see a huge rise in purchases. Its a shame that in a great year of Region 2 releases the dollar hasn't cooperated.

Pre-ordering these from Amazon UK wasn't too exorbitant. Not sure if the prices go up thereafter....

Even with the lousy exhange rate, one can sometimes find MOC releases on sale somewhere -- at some semblance of an affordable price.

[Felix]

Future acquisitions will be geared around Blu-ray releases.

Ominous, given how many of MOC's best releases thus far (i.e., black & white Academy ratio) are not exactly poster children for Blu-ray upgrades. It's hard not to interpret this as pressure for MOC to release a larger ratio of films from the '80s & beyond.

I, too, am distressed to learn that the Mizoguchi and especially the Naruse DVDs undersold and that this may have delayed or cancelled plans to license more. A real shame.

I have real concerns that just when we hit the brightest time ever for high quality films released for the home market, it will all be taken away from us as companies pursue the Blu-ray market and instead of continuing with the tremendous releases of back catalogues items, never available before and never shown on-screen due to the decline of rep cinema, we will get more of the same, and the companies will become very conservative with their releases. To me it is a bit like hi-fi where you can spend enormous amounts of money on minor improvements to the sound-been there done that,-instead of buying loads of records or CDs (sniff) to listen to. So, no Blu-ray for me for a long time yet and I still have my (slight) doubts whether it will really take off. When folk say Blu-ray has won the format war, they mean against HD, not SE. Things could get very, very bad in Europe, especially the UK, and ditto the US, and there is a whole generation out there who do not know what recession really means. New players and replacing pretty damn good DVDs with even better ones, to encourage you to buy bigger and better equipment for viewing it on could be pretty low on people's priority lists when things do get messy. (And those Blu-ray cases are really, really fucking ugly...)

wrt both the Mizoguchis and the Naruse, I don't know that MoC did themselves any favours with the way they were released. For the Mizoguchis, it was a lot of films in a short space of time and for that reason I think the sales may well remain steady and look not too bad in a year's time. Clearly, MoC and BFI know something I don't but I think releasing a relatively unknown, even for members of this forum, director such as Naruse in 3-disc sets would not encourage casual viewers to take a chance, whereas a single release first might have encouraged folk to dip their toes in the water.

MoC distribution seems very poor, in Scotland at least, and since FOPP went belly-up, I have not seen an MoC in the shops, which discourages the casual buyer for any of their releases. That may be as much to do with the now almost complete domination of HMV/Virgin on the high street.

For myself, and perhaps for others in the UK, a reminder to buy MoC releases new, not secondhand, unless there is an enormous price difference, and to go for MoC as opposed to Criterion where they are broadly similar (Vampyr). I am gagging for Phantom but after reading Nick's post I will wait until MoC get round to it. Criterion have a bigger market over there while the exchange rate will be hurting MoC and Europe already offers so many good releases (not too many MoC Mizoguchis sold in France I wager). It is also easy to forget that Nick and co do not run Eureka, they manage the MoC offshoot and we should be very thankful that Eureka let them do so and hope they too do not go belly up. Whatever the future release schedule and regardless of any criticism in my comments above, MoC have released probably as many Mizoguchis and Naruses as were ever available in the VHS days, certainly in the UK and for that alone, my great thanks (and for the 70-80% of other MoC releases which I have). Us old timers certainly appreciate how lucky we are... (I am old enough to remember early sell through videos going for nearly £50 and I still have later ones with the common price sticker of £16 from the early 90's.)

Lord knows how the Ichikawa releases will go though The Key could certainly do a La Notte if marketed correctly... I also think Terayama could do the same but I live more in hope than expectation. (And I would love to see Le Grand Meaulnes released to target the enormous The Magus market, so woefully catered for by that dismal film...)

[Finch]

MoC distribution seems very poor, in Scotland at least, and since FOPP went belly-up, I have not seen an MoC in the shops, which discourages the casual buyer for any of their releases. That may be as much to do with the now almost complete domination of HMV/Virgin on the high street.

For what it's worth, Felix, I'm based in Edinburgh and while I realise this may be the exception to the rule, I always find MoC titles (some even reduced to £10 - Onibaba, Faust, Kuroneko) in the world cinema section at HMV in Princes Street. I personally can't imagine that distribution is any worse in Scotland than it is in the rest of the UK.

Btw, I couldn't agree more about your take on Blu-Ray. I'm also inclined not to upgrade and would not have been even if our economy was still in great shape and no fears of recession looming. I'm actually prepared to skip this generation of new hard- and software and wait for ultra-high definition to come along. With the bleak economic outlook in Europe, it's by no means a guarantee that Blu-Ray will overtake SD DVD and I would not be surprised if it eventually goes the way of the Laserdisc.

[Felix]

For what it's worth, Felix, I'm based in Edinburgh and while I realise this may be the exception to the rule, I always find MoC titles (some even reduced to £10 - Onibaba, Faust, Kuroneko) in the world cinema section at HMV in Princes Street. I personally can't imagine that distribution is any worse in Scotland than it is in the rest of the UK.

Btw, I couldn't agree more about your take on Blu-Ray. I'm also inclined not to upgrade and would not have been even if our economy was still in great shape and no fears of recession looming. I'm actually prepared to skip this generation of new hard- and software and wait for ultra-high definition to come along. With the bleak economic outlook in Europe, it's by no means a guarantee that Blu-Ray will overtake SD DVD and I would not be surprised if it eventually goes the way of the Laserdisc.

I am delighted to stand corrected and should have made reference to Aberdeen and Dundee as I haven't got to Edinburgh for a while (I will check the next time). The World Cinema sections in both cities tend to be the usual cheapos.

Yes, there could be parallels with Laser disc; I guess it depends on the current market penetration of Blu-ray and how quickly the economy goes to rat-shit. Personally, I think we are there already and this time round the economy will struggle to recover. Recession may be the least of it.

I also wonder how many people out there have big DVD libraries that they will want to replace. LP to CD yes (though only because most people had either never heard a real turntable or wanted to sit and not get off their ass to change the LP over), Video to DVD, yes, but DVD to Blu-ray? I think it was you who said you "only" had 200 DVDs which may be small beer here, but the majority of my colleagues at work will have nothing like even that amount.... They may buy new Blu-ray but replacement of existing DVDs?

I am also not convinced that the majority of people out there are that concerned about the nth degree of picture quality, given that we still seem stuck in the mindset of getting the picture to fit the most of the screen. I recently got a 32" LCD, and this from one of Scotland's best HiFi retailers, and when it was installed, the guy showed me the button for Smart and said you won't be using any other setting... When I asked him about 4:3 he gave me a baffled look and asked why I would want to use that...

[Andrian Film Revival]

Ha! I had the same reaction from a retailer in Tottenham Court Road when looking to buy a projector. I thought - this must be the only guy in the business who was entirely ignorant about life before widescreen. I think he went so far to ask why anyone would want to watch anything made before 1953!

[tojoed]

I found it interesting that in MoC's Last Laugh, which I recently bought, there is an instruction on how to watch the film on a widescreen TV. So they must think that some of their customers might be watching a zoomed in picture. I must admit, I was surprised by that.

[peerpee]

I found it interesting that in MoC's Last Laugh, which I recently bought, there is an instruction on how to watch the film on a widescreen TV. So they must think that some of their customers might be watching a zoomed in picture. I must admit, I was surprised by that.

I would estimate that something like 90% of widescreen TVs up and down the land are being viewed in a setting which does not allow 4:3 to be displayed properly. Even just with family members, the number of times I see a 4:3 image zoomed in (cropped), or stretched to 16:9 sideways, is very alarming. It's clear that the average person hasn't a clue about aspect ratios, so we make a point of devoting a page to it in our booklets. I'm heartened to hear that you understand about aspect ratios!

[Finch]

I also wonder how many people out there have big DVD libraries that they will want to replace. LP to CD yes (though only because most people had either never heard a real turntable or wanted to sit and not get off their ass to change the LP over), Video to DVD, yes, but DVD to Blu-ray? I think it was you who said you "only" had 200 DVDs which may be small beer here, but the majority of my colleagues at work will have nothing like even that amount.... They may buy new Blu-ray but replacement of existing DVDs?

I am also not convinced that the majority of people out there are that concerned about the nth degree of picture quality, given that we still seem stuck in the mindset of getting the picture to fit the most of the screen.

Yes, it was me who has the comparatively tiny library of films. Actually, when I showed my friends my collection they couldn't believe how many titles I had, so that supports your own anecdote about your colleagues at work. I also agree that the majority of people are likely to be ignorant of or indifferent to the improved picture/audio quality of Blu-Ray - friends were impressed enough with seeing SD DVDs upscaled (have an Oppo player) on my 50 inch plasma screen.

[Felix]

Yes, it was me who has the comparatively tiny library of films. Actually, when I showed my friends my collection they couldn't believe how many titles I had, so that supports your own anecdote about your colleagues at work. I also agree that the majority of people are likely to be ignorant of or indifferent to the improved picture/audio quality of Blu-Ray - friends were impressed enough with seeing SD DVDs upscaled (have an Oppo player) on my 50 inch plasma screen.

Ah, that is interesting, I was looking at Oppos from a link on another thread but weren't sure if the electrics would work in the UK. I take it you got it online and that it fits the bill? (I am currently paranoid about them stopping making SE DVD players, especially for multi region and my Toshiba which was dirt cheap and has given me five good years service, will not last forever)

[MichaelB]

Btw, I couldn't agree more about your take on Blu-Ray. I'm also inclined not to upgrade and would not have been even if our economy was still in great shape and no fears of recession looming. I'm actually prepared to skip this generation of new hard- and software and wait for ultra-high definition to come along.

I wouldn't hold your breath - given the costs of HD mastering and restoration, I think we're going to be looking at 1080p as an upper quality threshold for domestic viewing for a very long time to come.

Yes, there could be parallels with Laser disc; I guess it depends on the current market penetration of Blu-ray and how quickly the economy goes to rat-shit.

But there are a couple of crucial differences. Firstly, one of the reasons DVD succeeded in penetrating the mass market where laserdiscs didn't is because an increasing number of home computers and laptops were able to play them - so many people found that they were DVD compatible almost without making an effort. The same is increasingly true of Blu-Ray - my boss recently took delivery of a new work laptop with a built-in player, and he didn't even ask for one! (And building a Blu-Ray player into the PS3 was a major - possibly the critical - reason why it won the format war)

And the second difference is that Blu-Ray disc prices are much, much lower than laserdiscs ever were. They were priced as an expensive niche product, which certainly isn't true of Blu-Ray titles - even though the RRP is slightly more, you can usually get them for prices matching the DVDs.

I also wonder how many people out there have big DVD libraries that they will want to replace. LP to CD yes (though only because most people had either never heard a real turntable or wanted to sit and not get off their ass to change the LP over), Video to DVD, yes, but DVD to Blu-ray? I think it was you who said you "only" had 200 DVDs which may be small beer here, but the majority of my colleagues at work will have nothing like even that amount.... They may buy new Blu-ray but replacement of existing DVDs?

I have absolutely no intention of replacing my DVD library, which is why I've ordered an upscaling Oppo player, and only about a quarter of my Blu-Ray discs duplicate titles I already own on DVD - and even then, the Blu-Ray editions of Blade Runner and 2001 are considerably better than my (original) DVD editions, even without the picture enhancement.

But I'd also argue that unlike the LP/CD or VHS/DVD transition, there's no reason why DVDs and Blu-Ray discs can't happily coexist for a very long time to come.

[Felix]

But there are a couple of crucial differences. Firstly, one of the reasons DVD succeeded in penetrating the mass market where laserdiscs didn't is because an increasing number of home computers and laptops were able to play them - so many people found that they were DVD compatible almost without making an effort. The same is increasingly true of Blu-Ray - my boss recently took delivery of a new work laptop with a built-in player, and he didn't even ask for one! (And building a Blu-Ray player into the PS3 was a major - possibly the critical - reason why it won the format war)

And the second difference is that Blu-Ray disc prices are much, much lower than laserdiscs ever were. They were priced as an expensive niche product, which certainly isn't true of Blu-Ray titles - even though the RRP is slightly more, you can usually get them for prices matching the DVDs.

First quote wasn't actually mine Michael. You are right about the different number of technologies that use Blu-ray and Blu-ray is here to stay, I'm just not convinced it is here to stay for DVD. But I am speculating and I have no pony to ride here. At my age and having invested so much in DVD over the last few years, they would need to be issuing Blu-ray only discs, which I am sure they will in time, before I jump.

The second comment is interesting though. If the means of playing is cheap, and with PS3 it presumably is, and the cost of the discs is cheap, what do the companies get out of it? I struggle to see what and I wonder if they have read the market right (I guess all the moderators must be asleep still as we are well off-topic).

[Finch]

Just to reply specifically to your last question, Felix and then I'll leave it there so as to not take the thread further off-topic: I ordered my Oppo player on amazon marketplace (may actually have been the Oppo shop itself with their link on Marketplace, can't remember) and it plays all discs just fine.

Re: Blu-Ray, I won't take the plunge either unless or until they start doing Blu-Ray exclusives on all future titles (contemporary films and classic titles alike) and I'm hoping they won't go down that path for another three years at least.

[John Hodson]

I've had an Oppo 971H for over two years now and it's been superb, best player - and I've had a few - I've ever owned. I'll be sorry in some ways to retire it; my Oppo 983H should be shipping from the States in a couple of days.

Sorry to read about the Mizoguchi's peerpee; I shall make it my mission to buy whatever you put out.

[peerpee]

Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere; I see the BBFC has passed 'The Devil & Daniel Webster', 'The Clouded Yellow' and 'The Horse's Mouth' for Eureka - are these to be in the MoC line?

Only THE DEVIL AND DANIEL WEBSTER.

[John Hodson]

Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere; I see the BBFC has passed 'The Devil & Daniel Webster', 'The Clouded Yellow' and 'The Horse's Mouth' for Eureka - are these to be in the MoC line?

Only THE DEVIL AND DANIEL WEBSTER.

Even owning the Criterion, I must admit I'll be fascinated to see what you can bring to the table. Excellent and thanks for that.

Just managed to squeeze it in ;

[finally]

I would like to know if there are proposals to produce any supplementary material for these releases.

I imagine material from the Criterion release would be of use for The Horse's Mouth, at least the Ronald Neame video interview.

I do not know if you have any plans for The Clouded Yellow but I understand associate producer Vivian Cox is still well. I have his address somewhere if Eureka want any help.

[What A Disgrace]

Any chance that the '73 and '92 could be Djibril Diop Mambety's Touki Bouki and Hyenas? I've only seen the latter (though the former is arriving from Blockbuster soon), but I think that between those two titles and the inclusion of his shorts (I believe those are his only two features?), MoC could release his entire filmography.

[What A Disgrace]

I can't help but wonder if spines 67-69 will all be films related by director. I'll safely assume 73-76 are all Pialat films.

[Stefan Andersson]

Please, MoC, consider including Pialat´s LE GARCU in the series! It´s only available in France in one of the box sets, or as a rare and expensive older separate dvd. At least MAISON SOUS LE BOIS is available separately and at a nice price.