Zeitgeist Films

[MichaelB]

Zeitgeist had been doing so well in terms of converting from PAL, too (at least I thought, given their fine Quay/Greenaway ports)...

I can't vouch for the Greenaways, but the Quay set was largely sourced from HD masters, so PAL-NTSC conversion wouldn't have been an issue for the most part.

The Phantom Museum and most of the extras on disc two would have been SD-sourced thanks to being partly or entirely shot on PAL video, so the BFI edition is still the one to go for if you're a total technical purist - but you shouldn't have any conversion side-effects with the bulk of disc one.

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

Here's the inside:

According to the DVD Talk review, this IS the packaging. Ugh. At least I'll finally have Blue and finally get to see Caravaggio.

[Cronenfly]

Zeitgeist had been doing so well in terms of converting from PAL, too (at least I thought, given their fine Quay/Greenaway ports)...

I can't vouch for the Greenaways, but the Quay set was largely sourced from HD masters, so PAL-NTSC conversion wouldn't have been an issue for the most part.

The Phantom Museum and most of the extras on disc two would have been SD-sourced thanks to being partly or entirely shot on PAL video, so the BFI edition is still the one to go for if you're a total technical purist - but you shouldn't have any conversion side-effects with the bulk of disc one.

My mistake about the Quay set-and though I don't think the Greenaways are perfect (Draughtsman at least is interlaced according to the Beaver), I do believe that they are properly transferred from PAL to NTSC (I think that Zeitgeist's wanting to get the conversions right was the reason Zed/Draughtsman were delayed, in fact) so I cannot understand their falling down on the job with the Jarman set.

And the Jarman set's packaging is indeed unfortunate to boot.

[Tribe]

It's sort of inexcusable to hear that about the Jarman titles. I had come to expect better from Zeitgeist.

[Cronenfly]

I know it will probably do no good, but here is Zeitgeist's contact info page in case anyone wants to register their disappointment with the mishandling of the Jarman titles.

It's also worth noting that The Hut has the three BFI Jarman titles for 11.93 pounds apiece, as well as the Artificial Eye Blue for 6.73; I wish I'd known the Zeitgeist box was so fatally flawed when the 10% off sale was still on...alas and alack.

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

It's also worth noting that The Hut has the three BFI Jarman titles for 11.93 pounds apiece, as well as the Artificial Eye Blue for 6.73; I wish I'd known the Zeitgeist box was so fatally flawed when the 10% off sale was still on...alas and alack.

Why does the US dollar have to be so low right now? Ugh. This is the first real home video retrospective of Jarman's work and the uniformly great Zeitgeist drops the ball. I am so disappointed because it's not like Jarman couldn't have used the boost. Years of just being a gay director for gay audiences and weirdo cinephiles and this will do nothing to help. Sorry to vent, but Jarman is one of my all-time favorites and to hear that these R1 editions I've waited long for are in less than optimum condition really grieves me. This is Zeitgeist here; not freakin' Facets. If anyone wants to sell me a region free DVD player, please, PM me. Until I can get a polite response to Zeitgeist written I may just have to go R2 finally or just sell my Jarman box.

[jbeall]

Here's an interesting article on Zeitgeist from this week's Village Voice:

Zeitgeist's Art-House Anniversary: Celebrating 20 Years of Cautious Distribution

[drdoros]

Here's an interesting article on Zeitgeist from this week's Village Voice:

Zeitgeist's Art-House Anniversary: Celebrating 20 Years of Cautious Distribution

"Years of Cautious Distribution" Cautious? Not the word I would use. Emily and Nancy take more chances in a year than most distributors take in five. Though I'm close friends with most of the distributors, I admire Zeitgeist the most.

Dennis
Milestone F&V

[Cronenfly]

There's no caution at Zeitgeist for sure; releasing a DVD boxset of 4 major works by a noteworthy director in unconverted PAL transfers (though this may be expected practice from the likes of New Yorker or Facets, I've come to expect more from Zeitgeist [and feel that they don't need a reputation tarnisher like this one]) is surely not the work of a cautious distributor...

I know that isn't fair (and I'll try to harp no more on the matter, as the damage is done and it's not a matter worth sinking Zeitgeist over), as I feel Zeitgeist should be commended in a lot of ways, but why'd they need to trip up now in their DVD production, with some of their most important/high-profile titles? I know it was surely a money matter, but to my mind it was a mistake to compromise, as I'm sure many Jarman fans who were waiting for this will leave Zeitgeist's boxset in the dust for the superior R2 edtions. And if they don't (not everyone's region-free/can plunk down the extra cash for the R2s), then they'll just be miserable with the R1 box, which is no good for Zeitgeist either. I know I'm not ordering another Zeitgeist DVD again until I see a review first from now on (if not just opting for alternate region releases of titles they own the rights to where available), and that's not something I'm pleased to do.

[jbeall]

The NY Times plugs MoMA's Zeitgeist retrospective.

[skattaway]

It's also worth noting that The Hut has the three BFI Jarman titles for 11.93 pounds apiece, as well as the Artificial Eye Blue for 6.73; I wish I'd known the Zeitgeist box was so fatally flawed when the 10% off sale was still on...alas and alack.

Why does the US dollar have to be so low right now? Ugh. This is the first real home video retrospective of Jarman's work and the uniformly great Zeitgeist drops the ball. I am so disappointed because it's not like Jarman couldn't have used the boost. Years of just being a gay director for gay audiences and weirdo cinephiles and this will do nothing to help. Sorry to vent, but Jarman is one of my all-time favorites and to hear that these R1 editions I've waited long for are in less than optimum condition really grieves me. This is Zeitgeist here; not freakin' Facets. If anyone wants to sell me a region free DVD player, please, PM me. Until I can get a polite response to Zeitgeist written I may just have to go R2 finally or just sell my Jarman box.

Just want to set the record straight on the transfers for our Glitterbox release. Contrary to what DVD Beaver has reported in his never fact-checked review, both Caravaggio and Wittgenstein were down-converted to NTSC by the BFI for Zeitgeist from remastered HD sources (just like our Quay Shorts box). Blue and Angelic Conversation were indeed converted from PAL sources, which were the best masters available to us.

Shannon Attaway, Director of Home Media Production, Zeitgeist Films

[MichaelB]

Blue and Angelic Conversation were indeed converted from PAL sources, which were the best masters available to us.

I can't speak for Blue, but in the case of The Angelic Conversation I doubt Zeitgeist (or any other distributor in NTSC land) would have had any choice but to accept a PAL master.

The film was shot on Super 8, and then transferred to video by filming it off a wall with a PAL video camera, since Jarman couldn't afford a proper telecine, and the postproduction sound was recorded onto that video master (hence the lack of a celluloid source today). As a result, the master is inescapably in SD PAL.

[Cronenfly]

Just want to set the record straight on the transfers for our Glitterbox release. Contrary to what DVD Beaver has reported in his never fact-checked review, both Caravaggio and Wittgenstein were down-converted to NTSC by the BFI for Zeitgeist from remastered HD sources (just like our Quay Shorts box). Blue and Angelic Conversation were indeed converted from PAL sources, which were the best masters available to us.

Fair enough on Blue and The Angelic Conversation, but the run time on DVD Beaver (unless it's incorrect) for Caravaggio being the same for both the Zeitgeist and the BFI DVDs (no review of the BFI Wittgenstein is posted, but the run-time posted in DVD Times' review of the BFI indicates that it's run-time is the same as the Zeitgeist DVD too) bear out Beaver's conclusion that Caravaggio at least is from an unconverted PAL source (I'm pretty sure that down-conversion from HD to NTSC doesn't result in the same run-time as HD to PAL). At the very least, Beaver does point out ghosting/combing throughout the Zeitgeist Caravaggio and Wittgenstein, so I think it's safe to say that something is awry on the part of the Zeitgeist transfers (although the degree to which this is the case is arguable I'm sure).

That's just the way I see things though, and I fully admit that I could be wrong, and to that end I'll leave it to others who are better informed on these matters to set the record straight. It isn't my desire to slander either Zeitgeist or Beaver, and I don't want to start a pissing match either; all I want to do is get to the bottom of the matter at hand. Juste's points below are all valid (to a degree), but in the case of this particular release it remains to be seen who's in the wrong (Beaver or Zeitgeist), I think.

[justeleblanc]

I actually trust Zeitgeist on this.

DVDBeaver is an invaluable source, but at the same time its reviews all aim to highlight this particular perspective, that virtually all non-Criterion Region 1 DVDs are an abomination. It's tiresome and as slanted as Sean Hannity, and for all the work and investment that other North American DVD companies have put into their releases in the last few years, it's more of an abomination that Beaver operates under an out-dated narrative: giving the benefit of the doubt to his favorite labels, and shitting on the usual suspects.

It's not unlike combing through Obama's speeches to find the gaffes, and only showing those clips on the air, while only showing the better moments of McCain's speeches.

I hate to be a prick about this, but as someone who's been working very hard to encourage people to venture into more obscure and commercially viable directors in the history of cinema, and to not simply assume that if Criterion releases it it's important, and if they don't then it's worth skipping (a plague that seems to affect North America more than Europe), I have nothing but praise for companies who take risks in trying to inundate the market with the more obscure, and often better, pieces of cinema history. And instead of encouraging this, Beaver just knocks them down.... again and again and again.

[videozor]

encourage people to ... not simply assume that if Criterion releases it it's important, and if they don't then it's worth skipping (a plague that seems to affect North America more than Europe)...Beaver just knocks them down.... again and again and again.

A state of mind that assumes the Criterion release makes a film worth not only watching, but buying for a collection, indeed exists, and looks to me as being shared by most of this forum's members. But it's existence couldn't and shouldn't be blamed on Beaver.

If Beaver is advocating for something it is to be a Region free. Beaver is a consumer-guide-type site that does it's best to give you a chance to make an informed choice while choosing between different DVD editions of a particular movie. You are making a final decision on what's most important for you (region, price, extras, etc.).

Beaver's review of Zeitgest's recent Greenaway disks also mentions the issue of them probably being incorrectly converted from PAL. And I do remember BFI disks looking much better, but I bought Zeitgest's since they have English subtitles - this was more inportant for me than the running time, ghosting, blurring etc.

[Tribe]

At the very least, Beaver does point out ghosting/combing throughout the Zeitgeist Caravaggio and Wittgenstein, so I think it's safe to say that something is awry on the part of the Zeitgeist transfers (although the degree to which this is the case is arguable I'm sure).

That combing/ghosting is indeed present on Caravaggio and Wittgenstein. I'm not a Zeitgeist hater, on the contrary...but whether or not DVD Beaver had its facts correct or not, the fact is the issues it alerted regarding these releases are correct.

I don't get the sense that Beaver has any particular bone to pick with Zeitgeist.

A state of mind that assumes the Criterion release makes a film worth not only watching, but buying for a collection, indeed exists, and looks to me as being shared by most of this forum's members.

Any folks who have ever professed this are clearly in the minority. If anything, people tend to slam Criterion way too much for trifling issues. But if your comment is addressed to a certain Criterion-centric point of view...this is, after all, the Criterion Forum.

[justeleblanc]

Sorry, I didn't mean to say that Beaver is responsible for Criterion's relationship with revisionist film history, nor am I blaming Criterion for this.

But because of Criterion's inadvertent impact in North America, it's very difficult for other companies, who don't have the deep pockets of Criterion, to compete, especially when the core of the market isn't listening. And Beaver continually criticizes the non-Criterion North American companies as if this were an even playing field. Yes, Beaver wants people to go region-free, but its strong bias for this often corrupts fair judgment when reviewing discs.

It just may come down to whether or not you think Criterion takes enough risks and whether you think the risks taken by smaller companies (New Yorker, Kino, Koch Lorber, etc) outweighs their shortcomings.

[Tommaso]

Yes, Beaver wants people to go region-free, but its strong bias for this often corrupts fair judgment when reviewing discs.

I'm not getting this. You can only arrive at a fair judgement if you compare a disc with other editions (if there are others) in order to find out what is technically possible with a given film or transfer. And if the BFI discs are superior it should hardly be deemed an unfair judgement if Gary points out that in that special case Zeitgeist may not have done the utmost that is possible. He does the same with Kino or with MoC releases (pointing out, for example, that the new R1 of Ford's "Shark Island" looks superior to the MoC R2). Whether these differences weigh enough for an US costumer to import the BFI discs instead of buying the Zeitgeist discs is a totally different question and is up to everybody's personal decision. Just the same as deciding to remain region-locked or not.

[justeleblanc]

Look at how Beaver slams Koch Lorber for the Joy House DVDs, and ask if that was maybe a little too harsh given the evidence. Yes, the Koch Lorber disc is inferior, but is it really the abomination Beaver says it is? That's what I mean when I say his bias gets in the way of fair criticism.

[domino harvey]

Well, not every Koch Lorber release gets slammed by DVDBeaver though-- Comedy of Power was given high marks, for instance.

[foggy eyes]

Irma Vep at last!

[Cronenfly]

Irma Vep at last!

Kick-ass specs:

SPECIAL FEATURES
- 16:9 Anamorphic transfer, available for the first time in North America
- Audio commentary: a discussion with director Olivier Assayas and critic Jean-Michel Frodon
- 30 minutes of never before seen on-set footage, plus an additional audio essay by Assayas and Frodon
- "Man Yuk: A Portrait of Maggie Cheung" (1997), a short film by Assayas
- Black-and-white rushes of Cheung as Irma Vep on Parisian rooftops
- Original French theatrical trailer
- Optional English subtitles for the deaf and hearing impaired
- 16-page booklet with essays on Maggie Cheung and Les Vampires director Louis Feuillade by Assayas, and a new appreciation by critic Kent Jones

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

Irma Vep at last!

YES!!! Wonderful news as I'd hoped it'd street late 2008 rather than anytime 2009!

[foggy eyes]

Glenn Kenny on Irma Vep (and Day for Night), with screen captures.

[foggy eyes]

Beaver on Irma Vep.

Slightly disappointed with Zeitgeist - I hoped this release would be definitive. Extras aside, I guess it boils down to interlacing vs. removable subs (which means I'll be picking up the Second Sight disc after all, thanks also to the weak £).