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Awesome Welles
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:02 am
Location: London

#476 Post by Awesome Welles »

Oedipax wrote:It would be nice if they included a subtitled version of 2 x 50 Years of French Cinema
This was commissioned by the BFI so they may hold UK rights to it. I doubt the BFI plan on releasing it as it is very specialised and if they were to group all the films together it would be too big a set there are twelve films I believe, of which only Scorsese's A Personal Journey... has been released on DVD, that I know of.

The films I know of:

Cinema of unease: a personal journey, written and directed by Sam Neill and Judy Rymer
40,000 years of dreaming: a century of Australian cinema, written and directed by George Miller
The Russian idea, directed by Sergei Selyanov
100 years of Polish cinema, directed by Pawel Lozinski
2 x 50 years of French cinema. Directed by Anne-Marie Miéville & Jean-Luc Godard
Night of the filmmakers. Directed by Edgar Reitz
I am curious, film. Directed by Stig Björkman
100 years of Japanese cinema, written and directed by Nagisa Oshima
The cinema on the road, directed by Jang Sun-Woo
Yang & yin : gender in Chinese cinema / directed by Stanley Kwan
Typically British, a personal history of British cinema directed by Mike Dibb and Stephen Frears
Irish cinema, ourselves alone? directed by Donald Taylor Black
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The Fanciful Norwegian
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:24 pm
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#477 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian »

Rosenbaum's (partial) review of the series also mentions a Latin American installment (Cinema of Tears by Nelson Pereira dos Santos) and a Jean-Pierre Bekolo film on African cinema (Aristotle's Plot) that was apparently rejected. A Russian outfit called Karmen Video released Oshima's contribution on DVD, which has been fansubbed and is floating around on P2P networks. I don't know if they've released any of the others -- I can't find much information about them, at least not in English.
accatone
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 12:04 pm

#478 Post by accatone »

"All" (?) the discs are available seperatly in Germany - and in a box set. Actually i think that this must be old news to the forum - but who knows?
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colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:30 pm
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#479 Post by colinr0380 »

The Fanciful Norwegian wrote:Rosenbaum's (partial) review of the series also mentions a Latin American installment (Cinema of Tears by Nelson Pereira dos Santos) and a Jean-Pierre Bekolo film on African cinema (Aristotle's Plot) that was apparently rejected. A Russian outfit called Karmen Video released Oshima's contribution on DVD, which has been fansubbed and is floating around on P2P networks. I don't know if they've released any of the others -- I can't find much information about them, at least not in English.
Yes, both of those were shown in the Century of Cinema series by Channel 4 in 1995-97 when they showed each country's documentary with an associated film

To be more specific they did an enormous season in 1995 to go with the Scorsese documentary - both a season of Scorsese's films that followed each Sunday night segment of his Personal Journey as well as a good couple of months worth of American films in general at every time of the day and night. Then at the end of 1995 they showed the Frears British documentary with a month worth of British films on during weekend evenings. Then in 1996 the bulk of the other programmes were shown late on a week night with one programme and one film representing that country (e.g. Oshima/Japan/Death-Japanese Style; Neill/New Zealand/Crush; Irish Cinema - Ourselves Alone?/High Boot Benny; Scandinavian Cinema - I Am Curious/The Match Factory Girl; Reitz's film The Night of The Film Makers was paired with The Nasty Girl; Cinema on the Road paired with To The Starry Island; Godard's film was paired with Les Amants du Pont Neuf; Cinema of Tears was paired with I-The Worst Of All.

Then without much warning the last few films trickled out in the summer of 1997: Aristotle's Plot paired with Guelwaar and Hyenes; Yan and Ying with Raise The Red Lantern (it sort of made sense to hold this one back since there were tons of China/Hong Kong programmes on British television in that year due to the handover); The Russian Idea paired with Urga and finally Miller's Australian documentary turned up a couple of months later paired with the premiere of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.

I can definitely attest to the Latin American and African programes being in the series as Channel 4 showed it, but sadly I must have missed the Polish documentary - either it wasn't shown on television or I missed it due to the erratic scheduling.
Jeff wrote:I've not seen the Frears film, but it sounds like it has a very different format than the Scorsese.
I'll post my response to Jeff's comment here rather than in the Scorsese thread.

I think the Frears film was constrained by the hour format, reducing many of the clips to uncredited montage sequences (of train sequences, people having a cup of tea after a crisis, that kind of thing!)

Not really the best of the Century of Cinema season as it veered dangerously close to becoming an EPK for the film Frears was working on around that time, Mary Reilly, at the beginning! It didn't really come close to the Scorsese, of course, but also the Godard, Oshima (though Oshima's film also walked a tightrope of merely just using Japanese cinema as something to break up the clips from his films(!) but he talked of how the clips influenced his filmmaking) and Sam Neill's film felt like better 'personal journeys' because they felt, well, more personal!

It has been a while since I last saw it, so I might see it differently now but the Frears film aside from a few moments where he talks about the first films he saw in boarding school, felt rather impersonal and more just a narration of a potted history of British cinema that he was given to read.

It was a difficult series to judge because the truly great films were less about the clips and more about the different individual approaches of the contributors to their idea of their culture and while I could see the point of celebrating the development of cinema in various territories and their unique characteristics there was some concern in the films about whether dividing the film world up by national boundaries might work academically and from a funding point of view but was a wrong-headed approach. It makes a good selling point for the films to deal with Australia or Britain but whenever the films came up against difficult situations such as co-productions with the US etc or of influences from outside the particular country in question the sense that cinema is a bigger concept unconstrained by borders kept recurring. It felt like a good problem to be made aware of though - it felt as if cinema, for all the culturally specific films that are made in every territory, truly can be a more international medium as throughout the series it continually refused to fit neatly into national boundaries!

There was also a difficult balance between wanting to honour cinema through clips or wanting to honour the personal journey idea. It could be argued that the Godard and Reitz documentaries, as well as the Bekolo one, were almost impenetrable to anyone wanting to 'learn' about the cinematic history of the countries involved in an orthodox manner (though the Godard and Bekolo say a lot about the country's wider - i.e. outside of cinephile - attitude to cinema). I guess those documentaries got a lot of flack because they didn't fit into the idea of the series of showing enticing clips of films! (If you want that kind of thing for French cinema you are better off searching out Les Enfants du Lumiere).

I think the series broadly fell into three categories - excellent, personal documentaries (the Scorsese of course, the Oshima, surprisingly enough Sam Neill's film was a highlight, the Godard (though most of it went over my head as the only 'late Godard' I'd seen at that point!), Yan and Ying)

Average - I'd put Aristotle's Plot here because it is a strange piece(!) but most of the others are average because they fall more into the category of showing clips without too much insight. It therefore fell on the clips themselves to get the viewer excited: the Australian documentary (at the high end of average), The Russian Idea (a solid film that was the most straightforward showcase of film clips in the series), the Irish, Korean and Latin American programmes.

Then there would be the disappointments: Typically British, I Am Curious - Film (I seem to remember feeling the documentary was mostly a disappointment because it lumped all the Scandinavian countries together with the consequence that there's not enough time devoted to any subject, not even Bergman!)

Night of the Filmmakers was certainly the misfiring lowlight of the season - the concept of having all the famous German filmmakers from the past hundred years gathered together in a cinema was interesting but sadly it felt badly handled - the filmmakers were composited into their seats in a rather slapdash manner and the footage of them was looped every few seconds so you got the impression of seeing a lot of people with nervous tics fidgeting about! I think the other problem was that none of participants were identified so unless you were familiar with German cinema (which I confess I'm still not really up with!), there was not really a point of entry. I was left with the feeling that I was at a party were everyone was surely meant to be there but I didn't know exactly why!

(Though the German themed night luckily was completely redeemed by the fantastic Nasty Girl!)
Last edited by colinr0380 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:08 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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MichaelB
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#480 Post by MichaelB »

colinr0380 wrote:but sadly I must have missed the Polish documentary - either it wasn't shown on television or I missed it due to the erratic scheduling.
According to my records it was shown on 8 July 1997 - though I'd already caught the London Film Festival screening, where it played in a bizarre double bill with Peter Jackson's spoof Forgotten Silver. As a result, the packed cinema was full of Jackson fans, most of whom left either before or during the second half, when they realised that it was a perfectly serious documentary that had absolutely no connection either literally or thematically with Jackson's film.

I did stay the course, but it was frustrating in the extreme because it consisted of various Poles reminiscing about their favourite Polish films - or rather, about their favourite moments in Polish films, hardly any of which were identified for the benefit of outsiders (either verbally or onscreen). I'd like to see it again now that I'm much more familiar with Polish cinema, but it was clearly intended primarily as a nostalgia-fest for a Polish audience.
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zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:24 pm

#481 Post by zedz »

Great info about this elusive series above. Thanks Colin et al. I helped with a 'complete season' of the films back in 96, but found out pretty soon that several films had not been completed on schedule (the 'second wave' Colin refers to, I guess), so it ended up as a somewhat patchy collection (about eight or nine of the films, heavily weighted towards the English language cinemas).

Scorsese's really stood out head and shoulders above the rest as a detailed, intelligent examination (and I'm no real fan of his subsequent Italian project, which is much more a 'beginner's guide').

Godard was interestingly perverse, but all his 'death of cinema' twaddle was tired even back then. The Oshima was competent but disappointing - I expected something with more edge and personality. Dos Santos was good - it had an autobiographical thread which gave it a bit of structure some of the others lacked, but mainly I was hungry to see clips from then- (and some still-) unknown films.

The Frears had some witty sequences (e.g. a montage of 'let's have a nice cup of tea' shots) but, as noted above, was pretty shallow, and unfortunately tied to his upcoming turkey-to-be (after all, what better hook could there be to the history of British cinema than Julia Roberts?). As I recall, he did note the important role of television in the 60s / 70s, which impressed me. I can hardly remember the Irish or Australian episodes, and don't even know which of the German, Swedish and Korean installments I saw (at least one, maybe two). I really dislike the Sam Neill film, but that's partly to do with the politics surrounding it (and partly to do with its lazy thesis).
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jbeall
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:22 pm
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#482 Post by jbeall »

The AE disc of 4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days is excellent. The two interviews with Mungiu (one of which is in English) are fairly extensive, providing about as much info as a commentary track would. Nice work AE! =D>
Perkins Cobb
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:49 pm

#483 Post by Perkins Cobb »

Has anyone else noticed that the six films Artificial Eye is including in its upcoming Satyajit Ray sets -- Mahanagar, Charulata, Mahapurush, Kapurush, Nayak, and Joi Baba Felunath -- are exactly the same six titles that Netflix currently carries for rental in the US, in inferior editions from the Bollywood Entertainment label? (Beaver trashed the PAL DVD of Charulata, but they must have produced NTSC versions as well if Netflix has them.)

Why am I getting a bad feeling about this? Would AE actually be cheap enough to just rerelease the same transfers?
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What A Disgrace
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#484 Post by What A Disgrace »

Well, I have noticed that Amazon UK no longer lists the first Ray set at all. I think something similar to this happened a few months back, with Les Vampires.
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Cash Flagg
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:15 am

#485 Post by Cash Flagg »

Histoire(s) du Cinema is now listed as "currently unavailable".
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Oedipax
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:48 pm
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#486 Post by Oedipax »

Cash Flagg wrote:Histoire(s) du Cinema is now listed as "currently unavailable".
For what it's worth (not much), Amazon UK sent me an e-mail estimating my new delivery date for this as somewhere between July 23rd and August 7th. I hope they're using the extra time to actually improve upon the release (perhaps adding some extras or additional subtitling for the HdC itself).
Queiroz
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:28 pm

#487 Post by Queiroz »

Histoire(s) du Cinema back on Amazon with a Sept 22 release date.
Zobalob
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:34 am
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#488 Post by Zobalob »

Going back to the AE "Les Vampires", is this worth getting if I already have the Shepard edition from years ago (which I have).
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What A Disgrace
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#489 Post by What A Disgrace »

Amazon has a listing for California Dreamin'

September 8.
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perkizitore
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:29 pm
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#490 Post by perkizitore »

Has this version of Histoire(s) Du Cinema the interaction of the Japan Edition?
But that's a good price even if it's similar to the French version (which is listed for 50 euro and not easily available,i think).
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MichaelB
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#491 Post by MichaelB »

Zobalob wrote:Going back to the AE "Les Vampires", is this worth getting if I already have the Shepard edition from years ago (which I have).
Yes - I haven't done a direct side-by-side comparison (Beaver has, though), and I definitely preferred the AE presentation. Quite aside from anything else, it's much truer to Feuillade in that the intertitles and onscreen text are in the original French with optional subtitles.

Incidentally, both transfers are interlaced, but I understand that's an unavoidable side-effect of running the film at the correct projection speed.
Zobalob
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:34 am
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#492 Post by Zobalob »

MichaelB wrote:I definitely preferred the AE presentation ...

Incidentally, both transfers are interlaced, but I understand that's an unavoidable side-effect of running the film at the correct projection speed.
Thanks, I've ordered the AE from Am. :) Interlaced schminterlaced, as long as I can see the thing in good quality, I don't care.
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HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:46 pm

#493 Post by HerrSchreck »

With these exchange rates, and with the negligibe dif in PQ, I wouldn't go near the AE. No contemporary intertitles exist, so the vintage spell is going to be broken anyhow by electronically recreated intertitles in either language (and I don't speak French)... the only time original language intertitles interest me is when they are from an original release print. If I spoke French it might be a different case... Some of the Image intertitles recreate the "feel" of the contemporary Gaumont titles by printing "into" an era Gaumont frame, with a black background created in the center. The improvement I do notice in the Gaumont/AE is that in some frames (especially the episodes that survived only in 16mm reductions) the tinting has obliterated the detail that survived time and reduction and contrast blasting from duping.

But these exchange rates are killing me. Christalmighty, even with backchannel assists my kevyip is nowhere near as close to my eyebrows as it should be. And I know even though the price isn't so bad (actually just checked and amazon uk has it for approx 40 dollars) I'd hafta grab some other stuff and presto! cleanout city..
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Gregory
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:07 pm

#494 Post by Gregory »

But what about the short films? Aren't you dying to see what is basically a French, slapstick, circa 1908, version of the sequence in The Girl Can't Help It with Jayne Mansfield walking down the street melting the ice man's ice, breaking eyeglasses, and causing milk bottles to explode?! At least that was the connection that seemed unmistakable to me when I watched "A Very Fine Lady" on this set and had the non-purist urge to play Little Richard along with it.

I sympathize about the exchange rate, though.
Zobalob
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:34 am
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#495 Post by Zobalob »

I will miss the tinting, I'm a sucker for tinting, and booklets.... I do like a good booklet, which, unfortunately the AE doesn't have.
Now my problem will be in persuading my wife to watch it again...."...but look, the pictures a little sharper in this bit and the music's different. What d'you mean the last one was in colour, that was tinting for atmospheric effect and this one doesn't have it. No, I don't know why....Let's just watch the extras then..... no, they're different ones and one of them at least is tinted..." :)
HerrSchreck, I sympathise with you re the exchange rate, not good for traders over here, or tourism. If we want to buy from you guys though, it's much cheaper, to the point where I thought briefly about buying the Criterion "Vampyr" as well as the MOC, before deciding that that's going a bit too far for basically a different book, tempting though.
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HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:46 pm

#496 Post by HerrSchreck »

Gregory wrote:But what about the short films? Aren't you dying to see what is basically a French, slapstick, circa 1908, version of the sequence in The Girl Can't Help It with Jayne Mansfield walking down the street melting the ice man's ice, breaking eyeglasses, and causing milk bottles to explode?! At least that was the connection that seemed unmistakable to me when I watched "A Very Fine Lady" on this set and had the non-purist urge to play Little Richard along with it.
Those are actually the things (the ones that dont replicate the cool Feulliade shorts already on the Shepard) I yearn for most so dammit stop reminding me. :wink:

What amazed me most watching the Shepard / Waterbearer edition was how much better preserved the short films were than the feature! (For the Children is pristine!)
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Matango
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:19 am
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#497 Post by Matango »

Amazon UK just sent me a delay notice on the Ray Boxset 1 for the fourth or fifth time. I've had both Boxes on preorder for many weeks now, but just cancelled both. Too bad.
zone_resident
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:33 pm

#498 Post by zone_resident »

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What A Disgrace
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:34 am
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#499 Post by What A Disgrace »

Eh. It doesn't sound...that bad...I keep telling myself.

If Volume 2 is of the same quality, I may buy it at a later date, but for now, I'll skip it. I've been to eager to see volume 1 to let a little combing kill the purchase.

Hurry up, Criterion?
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MichaelB
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#500 Post by MichaelB »

It looks considerably better than Mr Bongo's The Adversary - which is arguably a superior film to anything included in the new box.

Indian films are a nightmare when it comes to sourcing decent materials, which may be why Criterion's catalogue currently features nothing from that part of the world. There's a reason why normally conscientious labels like Artificial Eye, the BFI and Second Run don't seem to do that much better than the fly-by-night merchants!
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