Jacques Rivette

[Stefan]

Ah! So that's the reason. Thanks for telling.

And since we're at it - how is the picture quality on that DVD? I saw two older releases (one coming from England, the other from France) which seemed a tad too dark and lacked nuance.

[domino harvey]

It's soft but anamorphic and progressive

[Stefan]

Thanks again for telling. Most likely, Bluebell didn't bother with a new transfer but "borrowed" a former one (like with "Hurlevent", which looks exactly like the one in the French box set).

[Stefan Andersson]

MERRY-GO-ROUND is also available in Italy. I forget if it´s separate or a double-bill with another title. Well, saves interested Rivettians the cost of double-dipping on the German set just to get that film, though German subs might be considered useful while watching Rivette films that lack English-friendly DVD releases.

[MichaelB]

DVD Times' Noel Megahey slates Don't Touch the Axe (DVD and film).

Not a fan, clearly (of either the film or Rivette in general).

[Michael Kerpan]

DVD Times' Noel Megahey slates Don't Touch the Axe (DVD and film).

Not a fan, clearly (of either the film or Rivette in general).

He seems to have watched a totally different film from the one _I_ saw in the theater here. (Just got the DVD, but won't be watching it for awhile).

[Tommaso]

Have finally watched my TV recording of "Don't touch the axe", and comparing the image to the screen caps of the AE as posted at dvdtimes, I'd say neither the cap from the trailer nor the one from the film proper seems correct (the film cap looks indeed too dark, the one from the trailer is clearly contrast boosted). Of course I don't know how accurate the TV broadcast was in this respect, but the film in any case looked comparatively dark (not even sunlit scenes looking really bright, just as Noel describes it), but not as dark as the caps and with very natural and absolutely ravishing colours of the costumes. So, has anyone actually seen the AE now? I think I'd love to have this on disc, but not if the colours are misrepresented.

As to the film itself: I have somewhat mixed feelings about it. I don't know why, but I actually find it a little too 'stilted', which may have to do with Rivette's apparently very careful approach to Balzac's story (which I haven't read), and for me the film lacks both the over-the-top character and the emotional depth of his best works. I also find Depardieu a little too one-dimensional (which may be due to the story again, not to the acting), thus making the shift from forlorn lover to kidnapper somewhat unconvincing for me. But Balibar's acting is gorgeous all around, and my God, if any film had deserved an academy award for both costumes and cinematography in recent years, this one must be it. I was constantly amazed about the look of this film, the extreme care of the compositions and the colour schemes. Pure eye candy in every shot, as if you're not watching a film, but a series of paintings (and I mean that in a very laudatory way). So, while this may pale in comparison to some other works by Rivette (as a literary adaptation, "Hurlevent" surely works better, for instance), it's still one of the best new films I've seen recently.

[Michael Kerpan]

I like this better than Hurlevent, which looked gorgeous but was close to totally humorless (the author's fault -- not Rivette's). I find Axe to be much lighter in tone (just about right for the source story).

Still haven't watched the DVD.

[Stefan]

As I got the French DVD of "Ne touchez pas la hache" some months ago I didn't bother with the AE release. All I can say is that the film looks quite fine on the latter (but is, indeed, a bit too dark - compared to a screening I had attended during the Berlinale in 2007 -, but not as mushy as the screen captures posted on DVD Times). If AE has "referred" to the French release there shouldn't be a real problem, I think.

By the way, there's an interesting interview with Rivette regarding his adaption of "Hurlevent" (given to a French student of anglistics) :

And, while we're at it - has anyone heard some news about the rumored releases of "Out 1" ("Noli me tangere" and/or "Spectre") or "Le pont du nord"?

[ptmd]

And, while we're at it - has anyone heard some news about the rumored releases of "Out 1" ("Noli me tangere" and/or "Spectre") or "Le pont du nord"?

Nothing has happened with either version of Out 1, but Le pont du nord is out on DVD in Japan with removable Japanese subtitles only and a very good transfer. I don't think it's likely that it will receive a release with English subtitles in the near future unless a company like Masters of Cinema decides to take the plunge.

[Tommaso]

I like this better than Hurlevent, which looked gorgeous but was close to totally humorless (the author's fault -- not Rivette's). I find Axe to be much lighter in tone (just about right for the source story).

Well, there are some lighter touches in "Axe" indeed, for example in the role of Balibar's butler, and also in Piccoli's part. But as a whole, not a lot of laughs from me (and probably also not intended). I wouldn't call "Hurlevent" humourless, though; it's just perhaps more tragic (and I can tune in more to the problems of Bronte's characters than to those of Balzac's) and certainly more 'metaphysical', which is one of the characteristics I prefer in those Rivette films I like most, like "Noroit" and "Marie et Julien", but I guess that's just a matter of taste.

Stefan, thanks. Precisely: the broadcast looked very dark, but never as murky as on the AE caps, and I assumed that the French disc would probably be superior to the AE. I really wonder what's so difficult for all those companies releasing Rivette with English or German subs; they'd simply have to put subs onto the existing arte transfers (all gorgeous, but unsubbed), but they all seem to somehow feck it up...

And no help from CC or MoC
Let's hope that the BFI will pick up "Duelle/Noroit", otherwise it's a bad situation for those whose French is far from perfect. Still I habitually return to the arte box when I want to watch Rivette, even if I understand only half of the dialogue...

[Michael Kerpan]

I find a lot more humor in Balzac than in any of the Brontes (or all put together). ;~}

Our hero's (often) besotted colleagues were pretty funny -- including their straight-faced discussion of whether to spirit the heroine away or pretend to be pirates and destroy both town and convent as part of their masquerade. And Bulle Ogier's character exhibited plenty of wry humor.

BTW -- a translation of Balzac's story is available online.

[Tommaso]

I find a lot more humor in Balzac than in any of the Brontes (or all put together). ;~}

I guess I need to read some Balzac sometime. I'd even agree about the Brontes: I can't stand Charlotte, and find Anne completely insignificant; but despite (or perhaps because) its serious tone, Emily's "Wuthering Heights" for me is one of the most intense and captivating novels in the English language. And thank god Rivette resisted the invitation for melodrama that is so dangerous with an adaptation of the book (Wyler's version comes very close to this danger, apart from its other problems). "Hurlevent" is certainly serious, but still has that typical, slightly distanced Rivette 'touch' (others would say 'mannerisms').

[Stefan]

Oh! The Japanese edition of "Le pont du nord" has removable subtitles? I thought it featured only a dubbed version. Actually, a friend of mine got in touch with amazon.jp and asked about it - they told him the DVD had only a Japanese version of the film. Of course, we didn't order it after that information. Now things look differently. Thanks a lot for telling, ptmd. (Just to make sure - can you confirm that the Japanese DVD features the original French version?)

In case of any Rivette fans from Germany being around - the "Arsenal" cinema in Berlin will have two screenings of "L'amour fou" next month (on June 15th and 18th) - a very rare event. Though it's a pity that no DVD of that film has been released so far, nothing beats the "real" 4-hour-screening in a movie theater. Therefore: go and see it, if you can.

[David Ehrenstein]

"Our hero's (often) besotted colleagues were pretty funny -- including their straight-faced discussion of whether to spirit the heroine away or pretend to be pirates and destroy both town and convent as part of their masquerade. "

They were "The 13." In Out One "the 13" are a secret society suggestive of the sinister. in Don't Touch the Axe they're more like the Keystone Kops.

[Michael Kerpan]

They were "The 13." In Out One "the 13" are a secret society suggestive of the sinister. in Don't Touch the Axe they're more like the Keystone Kops.

We were reminded of Monty Python, but I guess the principle is similar. ;~}

[ptmd]

(Just to make sure - can you confirm that the Japanese DVD features the original French version?)

Yep, I just put it in again and it is indeed the original, complete French version with removable Japanese subtitles.

[justeleblanc]

They were "The 13." In Out One "the 13" are a secret society suggestive of the sinister. in Don't Touch the Axe they're more like the Keystone Kops.

We were reminded of Monty Python, but I guess the principle is similar.

Seriously, why does everyone keep quoting DE on this one. The 13 in the latest Rivette film are more Howard Hawks than they are Keystone Kops. I hate how Keystone Kps has become a big word that means nothing to describe humor, just as Busby Berkly is that for musical numbers. Rivette has always had more of a likening toward Hawks and this is just an extension.

I dont want to get into a spat with DE, given how tenacious he is, even after he's proven to be incorrect, so before that begins I'll simply agree to disagree with him. But for everyone else, seriously now, its Hawks. It's always been Hawks. Think of Rivette's 13 as merely an extension of the cast in The Thing.

[mirabeau]

I dont want to get into a spat with DE, given how tenacious he is, even after he's proven to be incorrect, so before that begins I'll simply agree to disagree with him. But for everyone else, seriously now, its Hawks. It's always been Hawks. Think of Rivette's 13 as merely an extension of the cast in The Thing.

This is my first post, so I don't want to get into any spats either, but I, too, wanted to say something about DE's post about "The 13." I'm just tired of reading the same old glib, uninformative "factoids" (and/or misconceptions) about certain aspects of Rivette's work.

I have no opinion about the keystone kops characterization of "The 13" in Ne touchez pas la hache, but to state that, in Out 1, "The 13" are a secret society, is just inaccurate. One of the best parts of the film is that we never know if such a group truly exists, if they exist mostly in Colin's mind, if maybe they existed but don't any longer, if they did exist and don't any longer but are considering a comeback, etc. Whatever the case, they are not Balzac's Treize. They may be a group of people who were inspired to form a kind of secret society after having read Balzac's preface to his Histoire des Treize, a collection of three stories (that's it, just three: Ferragus [who is named, by the way, in Ne touchez pas la hache], La Fille aux yeux d'or and La Duchesse de Langeais). And in those three stories, Balzac rarely mentions the 13 outside of the preface.

In Out 1, Colin is given three messages (I hope that's right!). The first two are taken from the preface of the Histoire des Treize. The first message is this: "Réunis, le soir, comme des conspirateurs, ne se cachant aucune pensée, usant tour à tour d'une fortune semblable à celle du Vieux de la Montagne ; ayant les pieds dans tous les salons, les mains dans tous les coffre-forts, les coudes dans la rue, leurs têtes sur tous les oreillers, et, sans scruples...." The second is this, "Le lecteur, pendant quatre volumes, de souterrains en souterrains, pour lui montrer un cadavre tout sec, et lui dire, en forme de conclusion, qu'il lui a constamment fait peur d'une porte cachée dans quelque tapisserie, ou d'un mort laissé par mégarde...." The third was written by Rivette and Suzanne Schiffman: "Deux chemins s'ouvrent devant toi/Treize pour mieux chasser le snark/Place moi comme je dois l'être/Ils n'auraient rencontré le boo/Sainte fut notre ambition/Jum qui les vit s'évanouir/Au port où tu dois aborder/Passe le temps qui les gomma/Une main guidera la tienne/D'autres treize ont formé un étrange équipage."

The key line is probably the last one, i.e. that "other thirteens have formed a strange crew, " though "chasser le snark" also seems a pretty significant intertext in the sense that the allusion to The Hunting of the Snark also calls into question the actual existence of any group, as it (Carroll's poem) has been described as "the impossible voyage of an improbable crew to find an inconceivable creature" (wikipedia has the reference; I'm too lazy to transcribe it here).

There's a part in the film where Thomas, while speaking to Lucie and Etienne, suggests that he might like to get the group back together. And another part where Lucie and Warok vaguely discuss a group that they may have tried to form, but it would seem that not all the "members" took it seriously. At least that's what Warok seems to be saying. Etienne also seems ambivalent about this group to which he may or may not have belonged. And another bit where Sarah enigmatically says, "Je suis le treize." And if one were to try to make a list of all the characters who might be members of this rumored secret society, one would be hard-pressed to come up with 13. Whatever. The point I'm trying to make is that they were not The 13 introduced by Balzac. If they were indeed a group (in the film), they were inspired by Balzac's description of "The 13."

Anyway, I'm sure this post has long since disintegrated into a quasi-psychotic tirade, but I just needed to get it off my chest. Oh, and nothing personal, I swear.

[Stefan]

Thanks for telling, ptmd. This is a splendid information. Amazon.jp will soon have mail ...

About the "13": what complicates things even more is that there's at least one other secret society in "Out 1" (long version), perhaps even two: "Les compagnons du devoir" and "Les devorants". Both are mentioned in some of the letters that Juliet Berto/Frédérique had stolen, but it's never clear if they're one and the same. Alain Libolt/Renaud, with whom she falls in love, makes part of the first group, though. Near the end of the film he meets with two other members who lend him a gun. Pierre, the "great unknown" (and basic founder of the 13), who never shows up in the film, asks himself in one of those letters if "he is, perhaps, a member of 'Les compagnons du devoir'", too. Apparently, he doesn't know for sure but has only a guess. This very much resembles Jean-Pierre Léaud's/Colin's question he asks Pauline/Bulle Ogier and Jean Buise/Warok: "Am I one of the 13?" (of course, they answer only evasively). Later, Warok tells Francoise Fabian/Lucie that Pierre had told him that he "sets his greatest hopes in Colin" - ironically, after Colin renounced from investigating further about the group. So, possible and even factual members of both groups have strong incertitudes whether they make part or not.
It would be interesting to know whether "Les compagnons du devoir" and/or "Les devorants" are mentioned in Balzac's "L'histoire des treize". If so, it would betray Rivette's assertion that he had "read only the foreword to the novels" before shooting begun. Perhaps, someone can tell about this?

[David Ehrenstein]

In Out 1, Colin is given three messages (I hope that's right!).

Who gives him the first (and most important) message, Mr. Know-It-All?

[cinemartin]

This is too funny.

[mirabeau]

It would be interesting to know whether "Les compagnons du devoir" and/or "Les devorants" are mentioned in Balzac's "L'histoire des treize". If so, it would betray Rivette's assertion that he had "read only the foreword to the novels" before shooting begun. Perhaps, someone can tell about this?

In fact, they are, again in the same preface. Ferragus is the head of the Dévorants (and one would have to assume that le Treize and les Dévorants are one and the same "tribe"). And les Compagnons du Devoir are described as their rivals:

"FERRAGUS est, suivant une ancienne coutume, un nom pris par un chef de Dévorants. Le jour de leur élection, ces chefs continuent celle des dynasties dévorantesques dont le nom leur plaît le plus, comme le font les papes à leur avènement, pour les dynasties pontificales. Ainsi les Dévorants ont Trempe-la-Soupe IX, Ferragus XXII, Tutanus XIII, Masche-Fer IV, de même que l'Eglise a ses Clément XIV, Grégoire IX, Jules II, Alexandre VI, etc. Maintenant, que sont les Dévorants? Dévorants est le nom d'une des tribus de Compagnons ressortissant jadis de la grande association mystique formée entre les ouvriers de la chrétienté pour rebâtir le temple de Jérusalem. Le Compagnonnage est encore debout en France dans le peuple. Ses traditions, puissantes sur des têtes peu éclairées et sur des gens qui ne sont point assez instruits pour manquer à leurs serments, pourraient servir à de formidables entreprises, si quelque grossier génie voulait s'emparer de ces diverses sociétés. En effet, là, tous les instruments sont presque aveugles; là, de ville en ville, existe pour les Compagnons, depuis un temps immémorial, une Obade, espèce d'étape tenue par une Mère, vieille femme, bohémienne à demi, n'ayant rien à perdre, sachant tout ce qui se passe dans le pays, et dévouée, par peur ou par une longue habitude, à la tribu qu'elle loge et nourrit en détail. Enfin, ce peuple changeant, mais soumis à d'immuables coutumes, peut avoir des yeux en tous lieux, exécuter partout une volonté sans la juger, car le plus vieux Compagnon est encore dans l'âge où l'on croit à quelque chose. D'ailleurs, le corps entier professe des doctrines assez vraies, assez mystérieuses, pour électriser patriotiquement tous les adeptes, si elles recevaient le moindre développement. Puis l'attachement des Compagnons à leurs lois est si passionné, que les diverses tribus se livrent entre elles de sanglants combats, afin de défendre quelques questions de principes. Heureusement pour l'ordre public actuel, quand un Dévorant est ambitieux il construit des maisons, fait fortune, et quitte le Compagnonnage. Il y aurait beaucoup de choses curieuses à dire sur les Compagnons du Devoir, les rivaux des Dévorants et sur toutes les différentes sectes d'ouvriers, sur leurs usages et leur fraternité, sur les rapports qui se trouvent entre eux et les francs-maçons; mais ici ces détails seraient déplacés. Seulement, l'auteur ajoutera que sous l'ancienne monarchie il n'était pas sans exemple de trouver un Trempe-la-Soupe au service du roi, ayant place pour cent et un ans sur ses galères; mais de là, dominant toujours sa tribu, consulté religieusement par elle; puis, s'il quittait sa chiourme, certain de rencontrer aide, secours et respect en tous lieux. Voir son chef aux galères n'est pour la tribu fidèle qu'un de ces malheurs dont la Providence est responsable, mais qui ne dispense pas les Dévorants d'obéir au pouvoir créé par eux, au-dessus d'eux. C'est l'exil momentané de leur roi légitime, toujours roi pour eux. Voici donc le prestige romanesque attaché au nom de Ferragus et à celui de Dévorants complètement dissipé (emphahsis mine)."

[justeleblanc]

If I remember correctly, Ferragus is a member of two societies, one being the 13, one being something less clandestine. I think both were criminal, right? Someone who's read the book or who has it onhand might know better.

Also, I do think the intro to History of the Thirteen mentions other societies.

Do answer DE's question, Jacques Rivette sends the message to Colin.

[David Ehrenstein]

No dear, it's Hermione Karagheuz -- who also has the last shot of the film.