Criterion Blu-ray

[Darth Lavender]

Which Criterion films do you have on HD-DVD?

Personally, I only have "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" on HD (which I bought more to show off HD's superior color than for the movie itself (I just never quite 'got' Gilliam at all))

But you'll be happy to see (as mentioned above) that there's a few others already on HD (although 'Ran' seems to be a debatable upgrade; colors are a lot different (better? worse?) and there's edge enhancement which means it's probably still better than most DVDs, but falls short as HD)
and there's a lot more which I'm sure will get onto HD eventually wether released as R1 Criterion's or as R2s by Fox, Paramount, Studio Canal, etc.

But really, Gringo, doesn't your question belong in the "lists" section? (Which, admittedly, I never read)

[jedgeco]

I've discussed this elsewere (and my view, essentially, is that being "the best" is particularly central to Criterion's reputation and they simply cannot continue to be "the best" when other companies are, more and more, releasing HD movies.
You put in a Criterion disk and expect to be amazed by the clarity of the image, and it's increasingly difficult to be amazed by the clarity of a new Criterion DVD when I have a shelf full of HD-DVD.

I feel 100% the same way (except change HD DVDs to Blu-rays). I'm really surprised at how pronounced the difference between HD and SD is, and how unsatisfying SD is now that I've gotten used to something better.

[jedgeco]

Laserdiscs were a niche market and I imagine there's more blu-ray machines in homes than laserdisc players when Criterion started.

There were about 2M laserdisc players in use; there are currently 2.7 million Blu-ray devices in use, although that counts all PS3s, only 23-50% of which are being used for Blu-ray playback.

[Antoine Doinel]

Laserdiscs were a niche market and I imagine there's more blu-ray machines in homes than laserdisc players when Criterion started.

There were about 2M laserdisc players in use; there are currently 2.7 million Blu-ray devices in use, although that counts all PS3s, only 23-50% of which are being used for Blu-ray playback.

That is a huge margin to be playing with.

[jedgeco]

Laserdiscs were a niche market and I imagine there's more blu-ray machines in homes than laserdisc players when Criterion started.

There were about 2M laserdisc players in use; there are currently 2.7 million Blu-ray devices in use, although that counts all PS3s, only 23-50% of which are being used for Blu-ray playback.

That is a huge margin to be playing with.

Yeah, it is. I assume that it's pretty difficult to get a solid handle on it. There was a survey a couple months back that pegged the number at 23%, but the sample size was small and not necessarily reliable. Someone over at High Def Digest ran some numbers based on the number of actual discs sold theorized that the number must be 35-50%, otherwise Blu-ray owners are buying a ridiculously high number of discs.

It's probably also always in flux, since someone might start using it for BD capabilities months after purchasing it.

[fdm]

Laserdiscs were a niche market and I imagine there's more blu-ray machines in homes than laserdisc players when Criterion started.

For the record, 't'wer'n't me who wrote that.

Well, one step closer to Criterions in hi-def... how much closer, who knows....

[pro-bassoonist]

Well, one step closer to Criterions in hi-def... how much closer, who knows....

Actually, very, very close. Together with two smaller distribs.

Dr.A

[Luke M]

The upcoming release of The Rock has the Criterion extras. It's a bit hard to swallow buying the movie in High Def with the same extras for around $7 less.[/b]

["membrillo"]

Criterion already Tested in Blu-ray

Does anyone have any information regarding this? Any idea what title was tested?

With the recent Warner announcement, it would appear that we are one step closer to Criterion Blu, or at least I can hope. Personally, I think a film like Apocolypse Now would be the perfect first release for Criterion in HD. Since the PQ / AQ of this film BEG for an HD release - but I believe its US distribution rights are owned by Paramount - therefore rendering any liscensing to Criterion a moot point - at least for the next 12 months. Im sure there first release in HD is already in the current library though.

On a side note, looks like Criterion will be the first to get the Samsung SP-A800B 1080p projector. I'd kill to see what kind of picture it throws. I hope they get an Anamorphic Lens (ISCO III) to go with that projector. Too bad they went with the DTR 8.8 - probably couldn't get a hold of the DTC - 9.8 like the rest of the world.

[domino harvey]

I maintain we will not see Criterion Blu-Rays possibly ever and at best not for several years-- the returns are simply too small for Criterion to invest in until the players saturate more households.

["membrillo"]

I maintain we will not see Criterion Blu-Rays possibly ever and at best not for several years-- the returns are simply too small for Criterion to invest in until the players saturate more households.

1) Manufacturing costs for Blu-ray are steadily decreasing. One would assume the move by Warner would further push this decline.
2) A good portion of the catalog is already mastered in HD. The real question here is the licensing cotracts for HD releases.

Criterions profit margins are slim - they always have been in comparison to more mainstream companies. Since their volume is thin, they have learned to manage expenses both in manufacturing and marketing. They seem, to me at least, to be a well run small company.

One would think standalone player "saturation" would have nothing to do with the decision since Criterions margins will not be lower than they were with Laser Disc releases - that was niche - Moreover, its not like they waited until 2002 or 2003 to release DVD's. The first DVD to ever be released was in 1996, its not like Criterion waited very long after that. If memory serves me well, wasn't Criterion at one point releasing Laser Disc and DVD at the same time? ***Just my mediocre thought process***

[domino harvey]

Blu-Rays are simply novelties at this point. The possibility of recouping, much less making money is the number one concern and reason why we won't be seeing anything materialize. Go peruse the DVDTalk forum right now, where posters are bragging about how they have stopped buying regular DVDs and are just waiting for everything to come out on Blu-Ray. Imagine Criterion releases Seven Samurai Blu-Ray. Average consumer who buys Crits at Borders sees a Criterion Blu-Ray and figures, "Well, I guess I better wait on this copy of Pierrot le fou until it comes out on Blu-Ray." Even if Criterion were by some magical chance to release a title or two in Blu-Ray, they will never be concurrently releasing new titles in both formats, and they would lose some degree of sales from shoppers wishing to "wait" for a Blu-Ray of each month's new releases-- sales poison.

[MichaelB]

It's also worth noting that Criterion have traditionally been extremely cautious when moving into new technologies - remember the way they were literally years behind the curve when it came to anamorphic transfers - the stated reason being that they believed the majority of their customers (prior to mid-2000) had non-anamorphic televisions and would see the picture quality suffer.

Much the same rationale is given for their controversial windowboxing policy - they're favouring what they see as the majority of their market with overscan televisions instead of the niche purchasers with overscan-free monitors and flatscreen televisions.

So while they probably will move into HD at some point - especially given that they've been mastering their stuff in high definition for ages - the chances are it will be done extremely slowly, with maximum attention paid to their customers who don't have the latest gear.

[denti alligator]

the stated reason being that they believed the majority of their customers (prior to mid-2000) had non-anamorphic televisions and would see the picture quality suffer.

What's a "non-anamorphic television"? Just a regular 4x3 TV? And how exactly would an anamorphic transfer be noticeably different on such a TV.

I, for one, hope Criterion seriously considers releasing Blu-rays. And I don't think it's out of the question that this wouldn't happen as early as 2009 (though I seriously doubt it would be sooner).

[MichaelB]

What's a "non-anamorphic television"? Just a regular 4x3 TV?

A television that doesn't recognise anamorphic enhancement. I didn't write "a regular 4:3 TV" because quite a few of them do have an anamorphic mode, including mine.

And how exactly would an anamorphic transfer be noticeably different on such a TV?

If I remember rightly, Criterion issued a statement to people who complained about their initial reluctance to embrace anamorphic transfers, explaining that with non-anamorphic televisions, the player would have to downconvert the anamorphic picture to create a lower-resolution letterboxed one.

They argued that with the vast majority of setups at the time, this might produce a lower-quality picture than would be the case if the DVD picture had been non-anamorphic in the first place, because the user had little control over precisely how the player reduced the image resolution.

Presumably they changed their minds by mid-2000, as virtually all their widescreen releases have been anamorphically enhanced since then - but it does illustrate Criterion's reluctance to make major changes to their methods until they're entirely certain that they're doing the right thing.

[Darth Lavender]

Blu-Rays are simply novelties at this point. The possibility of recouping, much less making money is the number one concern and reason why we won't be seeing anything materialize. Go peruse the DVDTalk forum right now, where posters are bragging about how they have stopped buying regular DVDs and are just waiting for everything to come out on Blu-Ray. Imagine Criterion releases Seven Samurai Blu-Ray. Average consumer who buys Crits at Borders sees a Criterion Blu-Ray and figures, "Well, I guess I better wait on this copy of Pierrot le fou until it comes out on Blu-Ray." Even if Criterion were by some magical chance to release a title or two in Blu-Ray, they will never be concurrently releasing new titles in both formats, and they would lose some degree of sales from shoppers wishing to "wait" for a Blu-Ray of each month's new releases-- sales poison.

Thats already happened, wether Criterion likes it or not.
I have, currently, a ridiculously large collection of unwatched DVDs (and an even larger collection of favourites that I could rewatch ad nauseum) so I can certainly wait on something like, say, The Leopard (which would obviously benefit from HD, and for which a master exists) a few more months or years until Studio Canal or some other HD studio releases it (besides, there's a copy at the university library...)
There are exceptions, of course; "The Complete Mr Arkadin" and "F for Fake" which interest me more as an analysis of Orson Welles than for the films themselves; I have happily bought in SD and have no interest in seeing HD. Older titles, like Haxan, which are unlikely to be much improved by HD I'll still buy from Criterion (but, as Herr Shreck has pointed out on numerous occasions, there's dismally few of those) and certainly the eclipse Ozu set, which I bought as a relatively cheap and convenient way to get into one of my most-overlooked directors (also, I am pleased to note, Early Spring (which I'm in the middle of watching) preserves the soft-greys one associates with Japanese cinema and could not be improved by HD)

Someone else, not sure who, completely summed up my own approach to HD & DVD buying... I'm really only likely to buy the most niche titles now, which I'm certain will never be released on HD and couldn't be much improved anyway.

Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again in bigger letters; Criterion needn't EXCLUSIVELLY release on HD
Here's my understanding of the costs/work involved in getting a movie released on DVD & Bluray (or, heck, DVD, Bluray and HDDVD. HDDVD did start off as the 'film-lovers' format with all those classics (as opposed to Bluray) Criterion could certainly throw HD users a bone)

Criterion negotiates rights to SD (as usual) and HD releases.
Criterion makes the necessary agreements with Bluray partnership, etc. (and possibly HDDVD)
Criterion assembles some extras (as usual)
Criterion cleans up their HD master (as usual)
Criterion prints off (or sends off a computer file to be pressed, or whatever) Bluray disk (and possibly HDDVD disk; extras on one disk movie on the other to accomodate space differences)
Criterion downconverts HD master to NTSC (as usual) does a little more fine-tuning with sharpness, contrast, etc. (as usual)
Criterion sens off NTSC disks to be pressed (as usual)

Perhaps I'm missing some details there, but my main point is that there is absolutely no reason why Criterion can't release in both SD & HD (rather than just HD, as some people seem to assume)
Heck, can you folks think of a single release from any studio that has been exclusively HD?

[HerrSchreck]

Nearly all of the sublabels like CC, which are not studios: basically MoC, CC, Kino, Milestone, etc.

[sacredchao]

Now that the format war is over, when will Criterion go Blu-Ray? Anyone know?

[Tribe]

Now that the format war is over, when will Criterion go Blu-Ray? Anyone know?

If Criterion is still photoboxing 1:33 images purportedly because of overscan issues with consumers equipment, I don't see them changing over to the new fangled discs until many more consumers start buying the equipment than already do.

Tribe

[TheThe]

I think I'll stop buying Criterion DVD's for now (or any other DVD's for that matter). I just got a free Blu-Ray player with the purchase of a new plasma Tv and now that I have seen the light I can never go back... HD is a must for cinephiles!!!

I was really tempted to pre-order the upcoming "last Emperor" box set, but I know it eventually will be available in HD... and the visuals in that movie deserve to be in HD. So come on, Criterion, what are you waiting for? Please release some HD magic!

[domino harvey]

I think I'll stop buying Criterion DVD's for now (or any other DVD's for that matter). I just got a free Blu-Ray player with the purchase of a new plasma Tv and now that I have seen the light I can never go back... HD is a must for cinephiles!!!

I was really tempted to pre-order the upcoming "last Emperor" box set, but I know it eventually will be available in HD... and the visuals in that movie deserve to be in HD. So come on, Criterion, what are you waiting for? Please release some HD magic!

[keeproductions]

I think I'll stop buying Criterion DVD's for now (or any other DVD's for that matter). I just got a free Blu-Ray player with the purchase of a new plasma Tv and now that I have seen the light I can never go back... HD is a must for cinephiles!!!

Good FILMS are a must for cinephiles. Higher resolution is great, but just icing on the cake.

My wife still laughs at the fact that we shelled out the money for a 43" plasma TV with a 5.1 sound system so that 90% of the time I can watch a 1.33:1 ratio, B&W, mono, foreign movie with subtitles.

Does seem a bit silly when you think about it.

[TheThe]

Good FILMS are a must for cinephiles. Higher resolution is great, but just icing on the cake.

I agree... but there is a difference in watching a movie (for general enjoyment or edification or whatever) and investing money in an expensive 'definitive' set meant to live a long time on our shelfs when we are right in between two technologies.

I am just trying to prevent the potential waste of money if they do in fact rerelase all recent CC films on Blu-ray. I cannot see how this is faulty or disrespectful or 'worst case scenario' thinking. Yes, we all agree that good films are sacred and that one 'must own them no matter what'... but all I am saying is if you have a choice, wouldn't you all also go with the better definition of HD? Well, it looks like soon we will have that choice. So why spend the money now? In the mean time you can either rent them or get them for free from the library. So what's there to argue?

[Tribe]

I think I'll stop buying Criterion DVD's for now (or any other DVD's for that matter). I just got a free Blu-Ray player with the purchase of a new plasma Tv and now that I have seen the light I can never go back... HD is a must for cinephiles!

But, if you're going to stop buying DVDs...isn't that Blu-Ray player sort of redundant?

Tribe

[TheThe]

I think I'll stop buying Criterion DVD's for now (or any other DVD's for that matter). I just got a free Blu-Ray player with the purchase of a new plasma Tv and now that I have seen the light I can never go back... HD is a must for cinephiles!

But, if you're going to stop buying DVDs...isn't that Blu-Ray player sort of redundant?

No. Because I said I would stop buying DVD's... not Blu-Ray's. See, Blu-Rays are not DVD's. And also I have my large collection of existing DVD's to choose from, and also as mentioned above... you can always rent or borrow CC from the library.