Pier Paolo Pasolini on DVD

[zedz]

Re: Porcile vs Teorema.

I first saw both at about the same time (maybe even as a double feature), and was blown away: such visual and thematic imagination!

Finally revisiting Teorema more than ten years later, I was disappointed. However cryptic it may be, it's also schematic (basically applying f(x) = y to each family member, where f stands for 'fuck' as much as 'function'), and unless you try to concoct some extremely elaborate individual allegory for each encounter (which I think Pasolini effectively resists) it all drills down to what seems to be a pretty simplistic and naive meaning ("sexual liberation would destroy bourgeois society"). Scene for scene, it's still impressive, but it doesn't add up to a satisfying whole for me.

I've only just had a chance to revisit Porcile in the wonderful Tartan set, and was delighted to find it had stood up.

The film is a model of intriguing construction. The ancient half is wordless and determinedly asymmetrical; the modern story is logorrhoeic (any action is reported action) and presented in queasily off-centre symmetrical compositions (or, taking it a bit further, almost matching mirrored shots). The two halves deal with similar themes and motifs (consumption, rebellion, institutionalised murder, familial betrayal), but what I like about the film is how they fail to add up to any clear message. Pasolini seems instead to be provocatively playing with concepts - bouncing them between the stories - without resolving them. Are the modern fascists to be compared with the cannibalistic pagan or the repressive Church in the ancient story? Or both? Is Leaud's rebellion against societal norms really relatable to Clementi's? I find Porcile to be a really effective dialectical film that opens up its areas of concern rather than closing them down. I'm not sure of the exact timing involved, but it seems to me very much a post-68 film, with Pasolini having a far more jaded and pessimistic (and thus more stimulating) perspective on societal rebellion. Plus, it's technically stunning. I don't know of any director who made better use of real locations (Medea is probably the pinnacle of this tendency).

[Tommaso]

Great analysis, zedz. I agree about "Teorema" having been a slight disappointment after re-watching it (in my case, it must have been almost 20 years before I saw it again on the R1 dvd), for precisely the reasons you mention. I only think that the Stamp character stands not just for 'sexual liberation', but also and perhaps more so for the 'divine' in the wider sense of the word, i.e. everything that doesn't fit into the materialist/capitalist/bourgeois world that Paso was criticizing. In connection with his other work of the time, one could add the 'mythic' or 'archaic' as well, though this is less apparent in the film if you consider it on its own.

As to "Porcile", I tended to read the 'pagan' part as allegorical for the working classes, those who have to struggle for life and being literally speechless, while those in power make endless and empty talk. Not having any power, the poor engage in an endless and useless war against themselves (the cannibalism part). But this might be a too narrow way of seeing things. What about the Ninetto Davoli character? He appears in both parts, and in the 'pagan' part he is even doubled. Does this mean he is a 'reflector', an indication that the two parts indeed belong together? For instance, the industrialists do everything to hide their 'animal' parts, otherwise the son's desire for pigs wouldn't have been such a problem for Klotz in the first place. But their interactions are as cannibalistic (metaphorically) as those of the pagans.

Do you see any connections with the superb Edipo Re Zedz? The backwards and forward time shifts. The mythical and the ordinary.

This connection is there in all films from the late 60s I would say, starting already with "Uccelacci e uccellini" (a film I find terribly underrated, the episode with the medieval monks being among my favourite things in all Pasolini). But while in "Edipo Re" the mythical part presents us with a world which - despite Oedipus' crime - still functions, "Porcile" shows us a mythical world which is as bleak as the modern one. One could argue that this is much more to the point, and one would then have to discount the whole of the Trilogy of Life as taking back a statement, an insight that he already had, and romanticizing the 'past'. Still I would argue that what happens in the Trilogy is not a look into the past, but into a utopia not located in any temporal relation to the modern world.

I'm not sure of the exact timing involved, but it seems to me very much a post-68 film, with Pasolini having a far more jaded and pessimistic (and thus more stimulating) perspective on societal rebellion. Plus, it's technically stunning. I don't know of any director who made better use of real locations (Medea is probably the pinnacle of this tendency).

It was made in 1969, directly after "Teorema", and before "Medea". I would also say that "Medea" is his most impressive film, for a lot of reasons (and Maria Callas being not the least of them), but as for location shooting, I would easily add "Arabian nights" as being as impressive.

[zedz]

As to "Porcile", I tended to read the 'pagan' part as allegorical for the working classes, those who have to struggle for life and being literally speechless, while those in power make endless and empty talk. Not having any power, the poor engage in an endless and useless war against themselves (the cannibalism part). But this might be a too narrow way of seeing things. What about the Ninetto Davoli character? He appears in both parts, and in the 'pagan' part he is even doubled. Does this mean he is a 'reflector', an indication that the two parts indeed belong together?

All of these readings seem worth pursuing, and I think that's a testament to the richness of the film. The sheer awkwardness of the modern story is so carefully contrived that i find it fascinating.

As for Davoli, he seems to me to serve a similar function in many of Pasolini's films, being present as a messenger or witness (he very clearly serves both functions in Porcile; he announces the advent of Terry in Teorema; even in Hawks & Sparrows, where he has a much larger role, it's primarily as Toto's foil / follower). This seems to me to be a very personal meaning for Pasolini that transcends the specific significances of the individual films, so I'd be wary of reading his role very deeply into Procile - it seems to me more of a meta- thing.

As for comparisons with Edipo Re and the other films, I've yet to watch the Tartan disc, so I'll get back to you (it used to be up there with Porcile and Medea), but Pasolini has remained one of the inexhaustible 1960 / 70s directors for me (probably outdone only by Oshima for the richness of his legacy in such a short time). Even the films I find less successful (Mamma Roma), minor (Comizi d'amore), or even frankly bad (The Canterbury Tales) are fascinating and reward scrutiny. Even the Trilogy of Life, which I think is basically a washout (and maybe even a sellout), includes The Arabian Nights, which is so ingenious and thought-provoking that it makes you want to look closer at the first two films. And the audacity of Salo serves as pretty strong evidence that 'selling out' was the last thing on PPP's mind.

[Tommaso]

You're probably right about Davoli being a sort of witness in all the films he appears in, perhaps representing the childlike or 'innocent' bystander not or little affected by what is going on around him. It's certainly not "Porcile" specific. The question is why Pasolini presented us again and again with that character (coming relief and the personal relationship between Paso and Davoli aside).

Even the films I find less successful (Mamma Roma), minor (Comizi d'amore), or even frankly bad (The Canterbury Tales) are fascinating and reward scrutiny.

I totally agree. After having first seen almost all his films when I was still a youngster, I had somehow lost track of Pasolini in the 90s due to the absence of any suitable home-video editions and my interests going elsewhere. But it's been an amazing and thought-provoking pleasure to have been able to re-watch them all in the last few years when they became available on good dvds. And they haven't aged a bit for the most part, and their social and ( partly) even ecological issues seem to be more pertinent than ever today. I'm not sure whether one can really call any of his films minor, because they all add up to the specific statement he wanted to make, like a mosaic. That includes even "Canterbury Tales", which I also find bad for the most part. Still I wouldn't want to go without his Chaucer impersonation. And still I wonder whether the roughness and amateurishness (that awful editing non-technique!) of "Canterbury Tales" and partly also "Il Decameron" was carelessness or also part of the artistic statement he wanted to make (i.e suggesting a rough, 'uncivilized' way of filming and living).

Even the Trilogy of Life, which I think is basically a washout (and maybe even a sellout), includes The Arabian Nights, which is so ingenious and thought-provoking that it makes you want to look closer at the first two films. And the audacity of Salo serves as pretty strong evidence that 'selling out' was the last thing on PPP's mind.

I never thought the Trilogy was a sell-out, it just appears like that to a casual viewer not aware of the rest of his work. The films have been accused both of naiveté or as an unexplicable adaption to commercial 70s soft porn cinema. While both is true to a certain degree, the aspects of utopia and poetry are much more in the forefront. While "Arabian Nights" is pretty flawless anyway and clearly by far the best of the three films, I would like to speak up for "Il Decameron" a little, if only for the sheer beauty of the photography, the setting and the characters. So a purely emotional reaction, and I would have my diffculties defending it in a more intellectual discussion. It's probably not really great, but it's an incredibly uplifting film, very much fitted for watching on warm summer evenings, and somehow it manages to disarm my usual critical distance.

[Anonymous]

The thing with Pasolini is that the more familiar one is with his overall body of work, the more appreciative one is to the achievements that might at first look odd. If one is familiar with Pasolini's worldview, his ideals and wishes (not only from the films but also from the books, poems, essays and interviews) then the Trilogy of Life becomes an astonishingly beautiful work. If you just encounter it without a lot of prior knowledge of PPP, then you may be put of by it (I know a lot of people who were). I saw Il fiore delle mille e una notte at the best imaginable time: absolutely obsessed by Pasolini, seeking out every information of him that I could find. I saw it in a (to my surprise) sold-out theatre one a big screen in a beautiful print and it was amazing. It was a manifestation of a will to live and enjoy the world before Pasolini realized that it was all too late for him, that he must defend this world (or better: his world) with a vengeance. That then resulted in Salò. The transition from the Trilogy of Life to Salò is absolutely extraordinary, because truly unprecedented. It was as if PPP was dreaming of a better world for all these years and then suddenly realized that he couldn't go on. He realized that he as an artist had a mission to accomplish, which was tell the world something about itself. For that honesty he was murdered. Only proof how right he was with Salò.

Still, I must say that the most enjoyable PPP films for me remain Teorema and Il Vangelo Secondo Matteo as well as the shorts La sequenza del fiore di carta and Che cosa sono le nuvole?. They show the artist at perfect balance with himself and explore the conflict of Eros and Thanatos very profoundly. Also, the two shorts are hilariously funny and entertaining at times.

[zedz]

I'm not sure whether one can really call any of his films minor, because they all add up to the specific statement he wanted to make, like a mosaic. That includes even "Canterbury Tales", which I also find bad for the most part. Still I wouldn't want to go without his Chaucer impersonation. And still I wonder whether the roughness and amateurishness (that awful editing non-technique!) of "Canterbury Tales" and partly also "Il Decameron" was carelessness or also part of the artistic statement he wanted to make (i.e suggesting a rough, 'uncivilized' way of filming and living).

I love the rough, slab-like nature of Pasolini's editing. The brutality of the juxtapositions in Porcile lend it an awful lot of its power. But in Canterbury Tales it does seem more sloppy than deliberate. The redeeming feature of the film for me is Franco Citti's appearance as Death in the Pardoner's Tale. He brings a real gravity to the role which anchors the entire sequence and makes me wish the rest of the film were as good.

On a semi-related matter, cricket-loving Pasolini fans should check out this. Much better than Peckinpah's Salad Days!

[Tommaso]

If you just encounter it without a lot of prior knowledge of PPP, then you may be put of by it (I know a lot of people who were). I saw Il fiore delle mille e una notte at the best imaginable time: absolutely obsessed by Pasolini, seeking out every information of him that I could find..

Strange, "Arabian Nights" was I believe my very first Pasolini, and I didn't know anything about the man then, but I nevertheless loved it immediately. Probably it was just a sort of exotistic pleasure for me at the time.

the shorts La sequenza del fiore di carta and Che cosa sono le nuvole?. They show the artist at perfect balance with himself and explore the conflict of Eros and Thanatos very profoundly. Also, the two shorts are hilariously funny and entertaining at times

Both of them didn't do too much for me, although I liked them. But I found them never as provocative or intense as "La ricotta", for instance. Having Ninetto as the only protagonist of a film, like in "La sequenza", seems a little problematic as well. I like his Chaplinesque appearances in general, but they work better in the context of a full movie for me.
Which reminds me of another Paso short/episode I've never seen, "La terra vista della luna" from "Le streghe". Is that out somewhere with English subs?

The brutality of the juxtapositions in Porcile lend it an awful lot of its power. But in Canterbury Tales it does seem more sloppy than deliberate.

That's precisely what I had in mind. Paso's editing was never fluent, but while in all his other films there is a controlled roughness, in "Canterbury Tales" it just appears rushed and unintentional.

On a semi-related matter, cricket-loving Pasolini fans should check out this. Much better than Peckinpah's Salad Days!

LOOOOOL!! I had totally forgotten about this. But it also shows that Paso at times could be pretty predictable, otherwise a parody like this wouldn't have been possible.

[MichaelB]

That's precisely what I had in mind. Paso's editing was never fluent, but while in all his other films there is a controlled roughness, in "Canterbury Tales" it just appears rushed and unintentional.

From what I hear, Pasolini took a shine to one of the assistants in the London post-production studio when he was finishing The Canterbury Tales, which distracted him somewhat. Working in a foreign language probably didn't help either (although all soundtracks are post-synced, the English version is definitely the versione originale, and not just because of Chaucer's nationality - Tom Baker in dubbed Italian is a travesty!)

[knives]

Any feelings on how the Water Bearer discs hold up compared to the other editions. BN has Vol 2 for twenty bucks right now and I just want to ensure I'm not cheating myself to save a couple of bucks.

[Tommaso]

By all accounts, they should be avoided. If I remember correctly, they even mixed up some reels in "Porcile". Go for the BFI and Tartan (if you can still find them) releases, they're really worth it.

[richast2]

The Water Bearer discs are atrocious.

[onedimension]

Any hopes for more good Region A/1 releases?

[Hail_Cesar]

Any hopes for more good Region A/1 releases?

I Hope you have enough money for a region B/2 player...