Avant-Garde, Experimental & Non-narrative Films

[ouatitw]

But anyway, the set is fantastic I truly hope they release more, since this seems to be selling so good, hopefully I can cross my fingers, I'm extremmely curious about In Extremo and Medea.

I am really hoping for the same thing. I think that the booklet said that they had something like 50 of his films total, so hopefully a second set is coming soon. I would love to see more.

[planetjake]

So, how many of us knew about this?

Wonder what films are going to be on it.

Nevermind.

Found this on another thread. So with the Criterion Brakhage disc, do we have all of the Psychodramas? Can't want to see Venom and Eternity again.

[vertovfan]

Does Blue Moses count as one of the psychodramas? I wish that one would turn up someplace...

[Zillertal]

re:voir is going to release venom and eternity the full two hours on DVD with subs in several languages, I doubt the kino set will have the full venom and eternity, most likely its other films he made. But this is truly amazing news!!!! I cant wait to finally after all this time actually see Markopoulos!!!!!! Does anyone know the titles on the set? I tried looking in kino website and there is no info about this upcoming dvd...

[Guest]

Joseph Cornell's wonderful Rose Hobart is now available at UBU WEB.

Are the films of Robert Beavers available anywhere?

[ptmd]

No, he controls all the prints himself, and, much like his partner Gregory Markopoulos (and, for that matter, Peter Kubelka), he doesn't want them released on video. The only reason that the lone, atypical Markopoulos film on the Avant-Garde 2 set is getting released is because he lost control of the print in the early 1950s. I would really love to see DVD releases of "Swain" (1950), "Twice a Man" (1963), and "The Iliac Passion" (1967), but I'm quite certain that it won't happen as all of the early films are now intended for screenings only at the Temenos. Both Markopoulos and Beavers are absolutely astonishing filmmakers, however, and it's worth going to great lengths to see their films when projected (Beavers just had back-to-back retrospectives at the Whitney Museum in New York and the Tate in London).

[fred]

re:voir is going to release venom and eternity the full two hours on DVD with subs in several languages, I doubt the kino set will have the full venom and eternity, most likely its other films he made. But this is truly amazing news!!!! I cant wait to finally after all this time actually see Markopoulos!!!!!! Does anyone know the titles on the set? I tried looking in kino website and there is no info about this upcoming dvd...

Geography of the Body (Willard Maas, USA, 1943, 7 mins.)
The Mechanics of Love (Maas/Ben Moore, USA, 1955, 5 mins.)
Visual Variations on Noguchi (Marie Menken, USA, 1945, 4 mins.)
The Potted Psalm (Sidney Peterson/James Broughton, USA, 1946, 18 mins.)
The Cage (Peterson, USA, 1947, 28 mins.)
House of Cards (Joseph Vogel, USA, 1947, 16 mins.)
Christmas, U.S.A. (Gregory J. Markopoulos, USA, 1949, 13 mins.)
Adventures of Jimmy (Broughton, USA, 1950, 10 mins.)
Interim (Stan Brakhage, USA, 1952, 24 mins.)
Unglassed Windows Cast a Terrible Reflection (Brakhage, USA, 1953, 29 mins.)
The Way to Shadow Garden (Brakhage, USA, 1954, 11 mins.)
The Extraordinary Child (Brakhage, USA, 1954, 13 mins.)
Rebus-Film No. 1 (Paul Leni, USA, 1928, 15 mins.)
The Fall of the House of Usher (James Watson/Melville Webber, USA, 1928, 12 mins.)
Pacific 231 (Jean Mitry, France, 1949, 10 mins.)
Arriere Saison (Dimitri Kisanoff, France, 1950, 15 mins.)
Traite de bave et d'eternite (Venom and Eternity, Jean Isidore Isou, France, 1951, 111 mins.).

I'm not sure how excited I would get about the Markopoulos film. I've never heard of anyone considering it to be a particularly great film. Kino also gives a different running time than the Whitney catalog (8 mins) which makes me wonder if they aren't erroneously presenting it at the wrong speed (the film is silent). In any event, it's a very early black and white film by one of the supreme colorists in the history of cinema.

[sevenarts]

This looks at least as exciting as the first set to me. Great to see more Brakhage, even really early ones. Great to see more Kirsanoff, Menilmontant was one of my favorites from the first set. Great to see Venom & Eternity, saving me from blowing $50 on the undoubtedly excellent re:voir disc. And the rest looks like an excellent and intriguing selection of rarities.

[vogler]

Kino also gives a different running time than the Whitney catalog (8 mins) which makes me wonder if they aren't erroneously presenting it at the wrong speed (the film is silent).

Oh No! Cue cheap casio organ and tweeting bird sounds.

I have not seen Christmas, U.S.A. by Markopoulos but I agree it's unlikely to be as amazing as his later films, with their incredible rapid montage and stunning visuals. I hope I'm wrong though - another of his early films, Psyche from 1947, is spoken of very highly by P. Adams Sitney in his excellent book on the American avant-garde, Visionary Film. Christmas U.S.A. is not even mentioned in the lengthy chapter on Markopoulos. This book is absolutely essential for anyone interested in American avant-garde film. Sitney relies a little too much on labels and categories for my liking, he invented many of the terms that are now used to describe different perceived types of experimental work such as Structural film, but it is by far the most thorough and intelligent book on the subject that I've come across.

[Zillertal]

I can understand why Kubelka doesnt wish to release his films, flicker films dont result well on video, the tv refresh rate is not compatible with the flicker pattern, Tony Conrad explianed me that in an email. So any video reproduction of his work would be bad. But I would truly love to see his films at home whenever I desire.

I think its possible to book a screening with Beavers to show Markopoulos films, one pays 500 euro fee for the prints themselves I think, and the travel and accomodations expenses of Beavers, he goes everywhere with the prints. I have an email from frameworks explaining that in closer detail.

Its amazing to see Markopoulos on dvd even if its a bad one, not to mention Sidney Peterson... I never thought to see the day that would happen, as for Brakhage and the rest of them, i'm not surprised at all, Marilyn Brakhage wrote in frameworks of a second Brakhage volume coming from criterion. And I bet a few more years and they will release a massive box set with everything (so I hope).

I just ordered the new DVD release of Re:Voir of Garrel's Le lit de la vierge which comes with a shorter film also from zanzibar, by Frédérique pardo called 'Home Movie' recorded on the set of le lit de la vierge.

[David Ehrenstein]

Le lit de la Vierge was the first Garrel I ever saw. Wide screen black and white with Pierre Clementi, Zouzou, and Tina Aumont. Songs by Nico.

Really great.

[ptmd]

I think its possible to book a screening with Beavers to show Markopoulos films, one pays 500 euro fee for the prints themselves I think, and the travel and accomodations expenses of Beavers, he goes everywhere with the prints. I have an email from frameworks explaining that in closer detail.

That's true, Beavers is willing to let Markopoulos' films be shown under certain circumstances although, as he often explains, this is primarily to generate interest in and support for the Temenos screenings. This is also a recent development, as he insisted for several years after Markopoulos' death that the films could *only* be shown at the Temenos. Things changed in the late 1990s when the comprehensive Whitney retrospective of Markopoulos' work was organized and when Beavers began to show some of his own work in the US (beginning at the 1997 New York Film Festival). Some of the films are occasionally shown in New York or in Princeton (where P. Adams Sitney teaches), but the screenings are usually not advertised widely.

[carax09]

I haven't seen The Potted Psalm or The Cage, but Peterson's The Lead Shoes is an absolute delight. My girlfriend in high school showed it to me, and it made an indelible impression---somewhat akin to hearing those Harry Smith old-timey folk anthologies for the first time. I am just over-the-moon that these wonderfully potent American cultural artifacts are slowly being made available to the public.

Has anyone actually seen these Peterson works, and can provide their impressions?

[Zillertal]

Peterson reminds me a bit of the experimental films of the 1920's, and I'm, his works are extremely 'intellectual' meaning its necessary to have a background in literature to fully appreciate them (this is just my impression), I've seen some 4 films of his, being Mr. Frenhaufer and the Minotaur the one I most liked. But I do must say his choices in soundtrack leave much to be desired unfortunately, some are extremely disconcerting.

Maybe here you can find more usefull information.

Le lit de la Vierge was the first Garrel I ever saw. Wide screen black and white with Pierre Clementi, Zouzou, and Tina Aumont. Songs by Nico.

The first Garrel I ever saw was le Berceau de Cristal which completely took me out of this sphere, its perfect! And a darn shame only Cicatrice Interieur made it to dvd in Japan with hardcoded subtitles and some horrible fogging in Clementi's genitalia. I hope to live to see the day of Garrel's 70's films being released on dvd. But if Dowskin and Zwartjes made it to dvd which I thought would never ever happen and now Peterson & markopoulos, I guess I'm ready and willing to believe in anything!

Speaking of which I dont know if it has been mentioned in this thread, but there is a dvd out of Clementi's experimental films, really great transfers. I loved Visa de Censure X and La révolution n'est qu'un début, on continuons.

[David Ehrenstein]

The Japanese ALWAYS fog genitalia. Major hang-up.

I've written about Garrel in my book Film: The Front Line -- 1984 (Arden Press)

Markopoulos and Beavers insistence on their utopian Temenos project has kept their work away from audiences for far too many years. Back in the 60's, Markopoulos films like Twice a Man, Galaxie, Himself As Herself and The Illiac Passion always drew crowds. Beavers' work is largely unkonwn by most people.

Eros O Basileus, the film Markopoulos made of a young, very beautiful and absolutely stark naked Beavers is quite something.

[carax09]

Peterson reminds me a bit of the experimental films of the 1920's, and I'm, his works are extremely 'intellectual' meaning its necessary to have a background in literature to fully appreciate them (this is just my impression), I've seen some 4 films of his, being Mr. Frenhaufer and the Minotaur the one I most liked. But I do must say his choices in soundtrack leave much to be desired unfortunately, some are extremely disconcerting.

Again, it's been a while since I saw The Lead Shoes, and that is the extent of my Peterson experience, but I thought the sound/audio choices were great (children's voices/handclaps/feedback-type noise--if I remember correctly). On the other hand the quality of the sound-on-film was very poor on the 16mm print I viewed. It is my understanding that the film was created in workshop setting where participants brought in props (i.e. a deepsea diving suit), and a loose narrative was constructed around the props. This doesn't sound like the type of situation where state of the art recording equipment was available. Was The Lead Shoes one of the four films you've seen?

[milkcan]

Could someone please elaborate on the Celestial Subway Lines / Salvaging Noise DVD for me? I've read where it was originally part of a four-part performance several years ago. I'm guessing New York Ghetto Fishmarket 1903 is a complete film, but this other one- is it an actual film, or two films on one dvd, or did the DVD producers just edit footage together from various pieces to make this one?

[Gregory]

Celestial Subway Lines/Salvaging Noise was culled from footage of four performances at Anthology Film Archives in 2004 using the Nervous Magic Lantern, accompanied by John Zorn and Ikue Mori. New York Ghetto Fish Market was from a decade earlier and was made with Jacobs's Nervous System (which uses twin projectors to look closely at short lengths of film).

[Zillertal]

Peter Rose now sells two dvd's one with film works and another with video works, for 40 dollars each, 'The man who could not see far enough' is a true classic, not to be missed.

[Gosvig]

I can understand why Kubelka doesnt wish to release his films, flicker films dont result well on video, the tv refresh rate is not compatible with the flicker pattern, Tony Conrad explianed me that in an email. So any video reproduction of his work would be bad. But I would truly love to see his films at home whenever I desire.

Hm, I don't agree completely with you. Last year a couple of his films were screened in Copenhagen where I live as part of the Cph:Dox festival, and I missed this screening as I was out of town. The Danish Film Institute has one of his films in their archive - Schwechater - his beer-commercial from 1958. If I would want to watch the film I would either have to pay for the whole screening myself or arrange a group of people wanting to watch the film and get it for free under the circumstances that these peoples were students of some kind (not sure how many, but quite a lot I suppose...). Considering that these expenses/efforts would be necessary in order to watch this one film I think that I would be able to live with having a DVD with an insufficient version of Kubelkas films. That the DVD medium would not be able to fully respect the nature of his films is really a pity, however a DVD would secure him a much larger audience, an audience that he deserves. Peter Tscherkassky takes some of the "DVD-problems" in consideration in the booklet to the "Films from a Dark Room"-release from Index, and makes pretty much the same point: that the DVD lacks the technical abilities to offer a completely respectable reproduction of his works, but that it brings his films to the audience in a "fixed" version and make repeated viewings and close studies of his films possible. However when dealing with films that deals with the very texture of film it is a dilemma if you should release it on DVD or not...

[J Wilson]

re:voir is going to release venom and eternity the full two hours on DVD with subs in several languages, I doubt the kino set will have the full venom and eternity, most likely its other films he made. But this is truly amazing news!!!! I cant wait to finally after all this time actually see Markopoulos!!!!!! Does anyone know the titles on the set? I tried looking in kino website and there is no info about this upcoming dvd...

Venom is 111 minutes, for what it's worth. It's unclear from the packaging whether this is the original theatrical length (the original cut was apparently 4.5 hours), or just what Kino could restore. Oh, and the English subs are on the print and occasionally hard to read (that old pure white subtitle font).

[Tommaso]

Savant's review of the Kino Avant Garde Vol.2 set.
Good thing: "All are in B&W, and all are in surprisingly good condition." Bad thing: that Marotta guy is involved again on some of those silent films.... How bad does it get this time?

[gelich]

The following website has quite a lot of interesting and unusual videos for sale, including a number of experimental and avant-garde films. This website is really worth exploring in depth. Also of interest.

[gubbelsj]

I've been enjoying the first Kenneth Anger dvd collection from Fantoma, and eagerly awaiting the release of the second set, but am slightly confused about the soundtracks for these early films. I can't figure much out from Anger's own commentary, and the booklet doesn't delve into much details. Clearly, these soundtracks were added later - I think the Capris' "There's a Moon Out Tonight" wasn't released until nearly a decade after Rabbit's Moon was first filmed, and Jonathan Halper's music for Puce Moment is late 1960s rather than late 1940s. When were these songs added? What was originally in their place, if anything? And when did Anger decide on the final soundtracks?

[Cold Bishop]

I've been enjoying the first Kenneth Anger dvd collection from Fantoma, and eagerly awaiting the release of the second set, but am slightly confused about the soundtracks for these early films. I can't figure much out from Anger's own commentary, and the booklet doesn't delve into much details. Clearly, these soundtracks were added later - I think the Capris' "There's a Moon Out Tonight" wasn't released until nearly a decade after Rabbit's Moon was first filmed, and Jonathan Halper's music for Puce Moment is late 1960s rather than late 1940s. When were these songs added? What was originally in their place, if anything? And when did Anger decide on the final soundtracks?

My guess at this is, considering both films are unfinished to begin with, he never got around to making a "final" version until much later. Maybe he showed them in one form or another before, but I have always assumed he didn't put the finishing touches on these films until much later.

Of course, anyone is free to correct me.