397 Ivan's Childhood

[ellipsis7]

Point accepted!... AE transfer made through vaseline smear or suchlike...

[feckless boy]

Even with picture-boxing, I'm pretty sure Criterion transfer is going to better one from Ruscico.

Here are devlinnn's caps of the Distinction Series-disc (AUST, R0). As far as I understand the Distinction release is a Ruscico PAL-port. I think it's going to be hard for Criterion to vastly improve the image.

[Tommaso]

I really have to re-watch the AEye to see how bad I find it. Damn, had Criterion included "The Steamroller and the Violin" it would have been a no-brainer, but with no real extras to speak of I hesitate to double-dip. Nice to see they're finally doing Tarkovsky again anyhow.

[Ashirg]

The Steamroller and the Violin is still owned by Facets, so I don't see how Criterion can include it in the set. They should have included There Will Be No Leave Today (aka Segodnya uvolneniya ne budet).

[Tommaso]

You're right, of course, but I was never really sure about the legal status of many films brought out by Facets, so I hoped that Criterion would have been able to secure the rights for "Steamroller". "There will be no leave today" would have been worthwhile, of course, although I don't think the film has much interest apart from the fact that Tarkovsky made it. If you look for bits and pieces of Tarkovsky's later style, you would find them, but you really have to look closely. "Steamroller" is the much more mature film of the two.

[Scharphedin2]

This film is just wonderful, and contains some of the most evocative scenes of childhood ever put on film. Although I already own the very fine mk2 release, I will also purchase the Criterion edition of this -- if for no other reason, in order to have the booklet, which is sure to be an excellent "extra."

In fact, I meant to add that to the pricepoint discussion carried on in a different thread. The booklets (that Criterion almost always provide these days) are vastly underappreciated, and (for me) they easily make up for any price gap between Criterion's upper tier releases, and those of the competition.

Also, I think the cover is excellent. In fact, Criterion has certainly done nothing in the past six months but steer closer to my taste both in content and presentation. In my view, Criterion has never soared higher than at present, and 2007 is easily my favorite Criterion year already (even if I do own a good many of their releases in other editions already).

[richast2]

One fuzzy AEye doing single-duty frisbee-fly into the wastebucket.

As FZ would say, "ZOOT ALLURES"

What a run CC are on. Mercy mercy me.

simultaneously talking about Tarkovsky and referencing the great FZ. now THAT is why I still lurk on this forum!

[Anthony]

I just watched the MK2 version of this film and hope that Criterion includes the 5.1 audio remix (as well as the original mono) on their release. Normally I wouldn't care, but I really felt the 5.1 audio really added something special to the experience of this beautifully jarring film.

[miless]

I just watched the MK2 version of this film and hope that Criterion includes the 5.1 audio remix (as well as the original mono) on their release. Normally I wouldn't care, but I really felt the 5.1 audio really added something special to the experience of this beautifully jarring film.

don't worry, they won't add it.
Or, I guess... worry.

Ruscico is notorious for adding those 5.1 remixes (are they afraid that no-one will buy them if they're presented in their original sound mix?)...
and yes, the MK2 is just a port of the RUSCICO (as all releases have been, until now)

[peerpee]

The MK2 IVANS is not a port of the original Ruscico IVANS (unless Ruscico have redone their IVANS?) -- The UK Artificial Eye is a port of the original Ruscico, but the MK2 is made from better source material (the source for Criterion's forthcoming version).

... and god, I hope no-one ever perpetuates Ruscico's abhorrent 5.1 mixes, let alone hears them.

[Nothing]

I won't be buying this, because of the window-boxing. That has to make the MK2 (which I already own) the superior edition.

[HerrSchreck]

The MK2 IVANS is not a port of the original Ruscico IVANS (unless Ruscico have redone their IVANS?) -- The UK Artificial Eye is a port of the original Ruscico, but the MK2 is made from better source material (the source for Criterion's forthcoming version).

... and god, I hope no-one ever perpetuates Ruscico's abhorrent 5.1 mixes, let alone hears them.

This is what confused me. Gary's review states:

ADDITION - MK2 - May 2005 - Well I don't know why but the MK2 - seemingly also a RusCiCo port - is vastly superior to the AE and the Spectrum. It is tighter, although still sports a think black border around the edge, is sharper and has much better contrast. The blown-out contrast boosting of the Artificial Eye and the Spectrum are quite evident. The MK2 offers the same extras as the other two and also an optional French 5.1 DUB. It does still include the mono option. It is very surprising that both Mirror and Andrei Rublev are unimproved ports yet Ivan's Childhood has gotten significantly better from its initial RusCiCo publishing.

I assume that he's quoting from the box viz a viz the copyright/licensing info, but it's astounding that the same transfer could be made to look so much better.

The idea of

I won't be buying this, because of the window-boxing. That has to make the MK2 (which I already own) the superior edition.

absolutely baffles me. Even with the very slight border around the image, the hi-def transfer will be light years beyond even the MK2 without a doubt, in terms of detail, contrast, etc.

And fyi-- before you do anything rash-- read Gary's review (or watch your disc) of the MK2 and note

although still sports a think black border around the edge, is sharper and has much better contrast

[peerpee]

I assume that he's quoting from the box viz a viz the copyright/licensing info, but it's astounding that the same transfer could be made to look so much better.

It's not the same transfer, though.

The original Ruscico/AE/Spectrum release of IVANS was from (I believe) a not-very-good TV master that was used for German TV in the 80s.

MK2 came across better materials and made their disc from those. They still have to officially licence the film from the same source, regardless of what materials they use. It's my guess that Criterion's IVANS is sourced from these MK2 materials.

[HerrSchreck]

It's not the same transfer, though..

Certainly wouldn't doubt you and the images favor your argument. I couldn't imagine that the encoding process could create this much of a variance on the same master tape/telecine. Perfect example is the tape floating around for D. UZALA... the more recent uses of the same RusCico master used by Kino well nigh 10 yrs ago show less aliasing/chroma of course as tools nowadays allow easier control over these troublesome little beasts, but the general look of the image is essentially the same, with virtually no improvement in contrast color & detail etc... certainly nothing even remotely approaching the improvement between the AEye IVAN & the MK2. Gary may have erroneously just assumed they used the same master.

[Anthony]

I just watched the MK2 version of this film and hope that Criterion includes the 5.1 audio remix (as well as the original mono) on their release. Normally I wouldn't care, but I really felt the 5.1 audio really added something special to the experience of this beautifully jarring film.

I sent an email to Criterion asking this question. And this was the response:

Hi Anthony

Thanks for writing to us about IVAN'S CHILDHOOD. I'm the producer of that DVD, so I can definitely answer your question.

That 5.1 remix, which originated on Ruscico's DVD release of the film (MK2 and Artificial Eye subsequently licensed all of their supps and their audio), will not be on the Criterion edition. The reason is this: we pride ourselves on presenting sound and picture elements in a manner that is faithful to the way the films were shown theatrically.

To this end, we probably would have tried to include that 5.1 if it were made from the original theatrical soundtrack. However, it was not. The 5.1 (and the 1.0 Ruscico audio) were derived from new effects tracks. There are even additional sound effects added and layered in (a gunshot here or there, extra creaking wood FX), which means that the track was not, in the end, the original theatrical audio. Granted, there is a lot of support for this kind of thing (witness the remastered version of Hitchcock's Vertigo with the booming gunshots and extra bird chirping sounds) and I'm not one to argue against it per se, but from our personal standpoint regarding filmmakers and their work, we like to stay as faithful as possible. So, because that 5.1 track was not the original audio, we've passed on it. Also, our audio department was unhappy with the sound quality of the 5.1, detecting a lot of artifacting in the track, and that was the nail in the coffin.

I hope that this doesn't dissuade you from checking out our release. I think the new interviews with Nikolai Burlyaev, who played Ivan (he was not interviewed for the Ruscico disc and thus doesn't appear on the other versions either), cinematographer Vadim Yusov and scholar Vida Johnson will make you happy. Our restoration department knocked themselves out to get rid of chemical stains and other damage, and did the outstanding job that this film deserves.

Sorry to answer your question with a negative response, but I hope this explanation sheds some light on the track's exclusion for you.

Best,
Curtis Tsui

I thought it was very nice of them to respond and explain their rationale as well.

[colinr0380]

I hope that this doesn't dissuade you from checking out our release.

On the contrary, that has decided me! Luckily each time I've made a decision about which Artificial Eye disc to get I'd chosen a film other than Ivan's Childhood, though it was getting to be my next purchase so the Criterion came along just in time. And I'd already gotten lucky by getting the version of Mirror with the 1.0 soundtrack - if the 5.1 Ivan's Childhood was anything like the 5.1 Mirror I'm glad they passed on it!

Plus the extras and the better transfer from better materials. It sounds like the best way to see the film for the first time!

[skuhn8]

I hope that this doesn't dissuade you from checking out our release.

On the contrary, that has decided me! Luckily each time I've made a decision about which Artificial Eye disc to get I'd chosen a film other than Ivan's Childhood, though it was getting to be my next purchase so the Criterion came along just in time. And I'd already gotten lucky by getting the version of Mirror with the 1.0 soundtrack - if the 5.1 Ivan's Childhood was anything like the 5.1 Mirror I'm glad they passed on it!

Plus the extras and the better transfer from better materials. It sounds like the best way to see the film for the first time!

Just finished watching the Hungarian port of the Ruscico with the 5.1. Yup, yet another stupid soundscape with sloppy extra sound effects. That woodpacker sounded like it was tapping into my skull. I remember reading a Ruscico defense of this heinous practice on the Tarkovsky web site. Pathetic.

[miless]

That woodpacker sounded like...

not to be an ass, but...
is this a term for a homosexual bird... more specifically a woodpecker?

[Darth Lavender]

Glad I held off on buying the R4 (excellent as it reputedly is (a direct port of MK2)
I'm sure I'll hold off for a week or two and read some reviews, but with the Criterion being (from DVDPacific) exactly the same price as the R4 and the possibility of a superior transfer (and more authentic audio,) I seriously suspect this will be the one to get (something to order along with the corrected Jigoku when it finally reaches the stores.)
(I'm always a little reluctant to support Ruscico anyway, after being burned on their $80, el-cheapo PAL>NTSC "War and Peace")

One small thing I'm curious about, though, anyone know the size of the excerpt from "Steamroller and the Violin" (on the Ruscico/MK2)? The film itself is only about 30 (maybe 40) minutes long, so it seems kind of pointless to include only an 'abridged' version.

[miless]

One small thing I'm curious about, though, anyone know the size of the excerpt from "Steamroller and the Violin" (on the Ruscico/MK2)? The film itself is only about 30 (maybe 40) minutes long, so it seems kind of pointless to include only an 'abridged' version.

I assume it's the same excerpt that accompanies Stalker... if so, it's about 8-10 minutes in length, and completely pointless, indeed.

[skuhn8]

That woodpacker sounded like...

not to be an ass, but...
is this a term for a homosexual bird... more specifically a woodpecker?

Rather more insulting to gay lumberjacks. Good catch and apologies.

[Nothing]

Hmm. It's been a while since I saw the MK2, though I don't recall the border being anywhere near as severe as Criterion's current window-boxing fad.

The Criterion still sounds like a step down in picture quality, especially given the drop in available resolution that already exists between PAL and NTSC. Okay, on the other hand, Anthony has me worried about the sound... Still, it seems like a trade off.

Now when Criterion finally get into gear put out a GENUINE 1080P HD release, I'm certainly game for that; no-windowboxing I should hope, as HD via HDMI doesn't do overscan.

[Ashirg]

I got a reply while back from Curtis Tsui regarding my wish to include Tarkovsky student films. I thought I posted that info in here, but I guess I forgot:

Hi Gregory

I'm the producer of the forthcoming IVAN'S CHILDHOOD DVD so I'm happy to hear that you're excited about the release. I think it's an amazing film -- a masterpiece, to be honest -- and I'm incredibly proud to have the chance to work on the disc.

I'm unfortunately bringing some bad news to you here: I've been trying, since I began working on this title, to include THERE WILL BE NO LEAVE TODAY on this disc. Ideally I would've loved to have gotten THE STEAMROLLER AND THE VIOLIN but as you probably already know, Facets released that one. Aesthetically and content-wise, however, NO LEAVE seemed like a perfect match with IVAN'S, especially since his subsequent movies mark his "switch" into a less overtly flamboyant visual style.

Alas, I have not, to this day, been able to get a viable element to a lab out here, or to even conclude talks with VGIK (The State Institute of Cinematography that holds the copyrights for Tarkovsky's student work). This isn't to point fingers, mind you: the time zones are different, their fax machine is always off when the school is closed, and there are a lot of overall bureaucratic hurdles that eventually kept stalling things out. This happens for practically every release, really (including licensed supps rarely ends up being a cake walk), but the unfortunate case here is that none of these issues reached anything remotely resembling a conclusion by the time I had long crossed many of my due dates.

I'm sure it must be disappointing for you to hear this, especially when we were able to release Tarkovsky's version of THE KILLERS. But I hope it won't dissuade you from pickup up the DVD when it comes out. There are a multitude of new supplements that were never on the previous, Ruscico-derived releases: a video "essay" featuring Vida Johnson (the co-author of THE FILMS OF ANDREI TARKOVSKY) discussing the significance of the film in Tarkovsky's career, new video interviews with cinematographer Vadim Yusov and actor Nikolai Burlyaev (again, not the Ruscico ones, which subsequently appeared on every other DVD release of IVAN'S), and an essay written by Tarkovsky about IVAN'S CHILDHOOD called "Between Two Films."

Thanks again for getting in touch with us.

Best,
Curtis Tsui

[criterionsnob]

Beaver

[eez28]

Wow, that looks great. I have never seen it before and really look forward to getting this one.