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 Post subject: Touch of Evil: 50th Anniversary Edition
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:53 pm 
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[EDIT by Jeff, 7-7-08: A DVD release including all three versions has been announced here. Discussion of the alternate cuts has been merged with discussion of the new DVD. Original cap comparison by davidhare begins after the break.]

....

After promtping by Schreck I'm posting comparison caps of the 1970s first "restoration with the added Harry Keller continuity shots, but which retains the credits, the wonderful Mancini title music and the original 1.37 aspect ratio. These caps are ABOVE identical shots from the 1999 restoration, which removes the titles, still keeps the Keller shots and reformats/crops the image to 1.85.

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Apologies for not de-anamorphizing the second set.


Last edited by Anonymous on Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:25 pm 
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Hmm, interesting. Where did you get the 1970s cut captures from? The quality seems quite good, though jaggy - is that jagginess in the source?

1.85:1 looks like the composed ratio, though.

Cheers, Dave.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:35 pm 
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Umm, the 78 is from the Universal Laserdisc. There is an , ahem, idiosyncrasy in my copy of the 99 version which doesn't flag anamorphic. I'll do those caps again from a "true" copy later.

I find the 1.85 far too tight. Metty certainly left air around the top of the frame but it benefits the composiiton IMO. Certainly don't you agree the fourth cap with Mercedes and the biker gang, and cap 5 with Tamiroff look distinctly cropped?


Last edited by Anonymous on Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:16 pm 

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The fourth set aren't actually identical frames... the second one is missing the 5th person.

As for the fifth set, it seems to me that the 1970 capture has a bit too much empty space... and the extra metal across Tamiroff's chest and the extra fabric around his neck make the image appear more confusing. But perhaps that's just when the image is out of the context of the frames around it.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:22 am 
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Thanks Dave-- opinions after anamorphing them in my head: aside from the Deitrich still (where there seems a slight excess of compositional air over her head), I like the academy ratio on my vhs, which is why I've held off on the DVD. Especially the first cap with the diminishing size of the architectural arches, the cutoff of the top of the largest archest blows the whole effect of perspective.

I say we create a screen-cap sticky, as an accent to Gary's site, for those films that he doesn't review (almost no silents on his site whatsoever.) Lots of folks would find it a godsend I'm certain.

I've been holding off on ARKADIN as I'm only moderately interested at best in such a monster treatment given to such a ho hum candidate.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:55 am 
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According to imdb and other sites, before shooting began, Welles wanted to film "Touch of Evil" in widescreen. HOWEVER, Universal "ordered" him to shoot it in 1.33:1 (or 1.37:1, whatever). So, Welles conceded on that point, shooting (and therefore composing) every shot to the 1.33:1 aspect ratio.

Flash forward to 1998, when they were restoring the film, they wanted/"offered" to retain the 1.33:1 aspect ratio, but present-day Universal "ordered" the restoration team to prepare the new version in widescreen. That's how the restoration was projected and later put on DVD.

Is this correct? Unless there's anything more to the story, it seems that the restoration BOTCHED up the movie. Because even though Welles wanted widescreen, he didn't compose it in widescreen (due to "orders"), he composed it in 1.33:1, correct? There's no way to 'undo' that, not unless Welles made sure every shot could be cropped to widescreen and still retain a composition he was a satisfied with.

I just ordered this DVD cheap so I'll see how it looks, but on paper, this sounds like a mistake, one that he restoration team tried to avoid.

BTW, looking at the caps, the extra space in the 'old' version actually feels intentional to me, especially when it's indoors. The low angle shots are more apparent as the ceiling becomes very visible, whereas the cropping eliminates much of the ceiling and, IMO, diminishes the impact.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:14 am 

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This is an age old debate, but I've read many places that Metty did compose the shots knowing that they would be matted down when shown in theaters, and that Welles was very much aware of this as well. I do believe 1.85:1 is the correct theatrical aspect ratio, and that's the version I always watch.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:45 am 
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Heath, I think you are probably right about Universal ordering the WS DVD delivery but we need verification from people like Rosenbaum, who has only just acknowledged that "some people complain about the widescreen ratio" (and other aspects of the restoration.) I assure you I'm not the first or the only person to howl about this.

Certainly when you look at Metty's two Sirks on the Criterion DVDs, the framing to 1.78 looks fine. I had only ever seen these (and Imitation of Life) in Academy ratio theatrically, but that's film society/archival screenings in which the projectionist works without the studio's press books, masking instructions, etc. Quite evidently from the Academy ratio caps Metty realized the movie might be projected in a wider ratio (perhaps 1.66) and has largely framed with head space to accomodate this. But I'll take "classically" large headroom over Dietrich's head any day for the sake of saving the tightly composed, deep focus compositions. And of course - for a number of reasons - consider Metty and Welles shot the entire movie with 24mm wide angle lenses to allow night shooting, low exposure and extremely deep focus and complex grouping composition/low angle shots (the ceiling is entirely cropped out of the frame in the Mercedes McCambridge cap.). Only the tedious Harry Keller daytime "explanatory dialogue" stuff is shot with a standard 50mm lens, and these are the only shots in the film that seem to me to suit 1.85 or 1.78.

At the absolute max the movie could sustain 1.66. And I feel the same goes for Warner's far too tight 1.78 reframing of the Wrong Man.

REMINDER EDIT: Like everything other than the anamorphic widescreen processes all these movies were originally shot 35mm optical in full frame.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:43 am 
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ORSON WELLES LETTER TO THE NEW STATESMAN - LONDON REGARDING TOUCH OF EVIL

Quote:
May 24, 1958

Sir:

Without being quite so foolish as to set my name to that odious thing, a 'reply to the critic', perhaps I may add a few oddments of information to Mr. Whitebait's brief reference to my picture TOUCH OF EVIL (what a silly title, by the way; it's the first time I've heard it). Most serious film reviewers appear to be quite without knowledge of the hard facts involved in manufacturing and, especially, merchandising a motion picture. Such innocence, I'm sure, is very proper to their position; it is, therefore, not your critic I venture to set straight, but my own record. As author-director I was not and normally would not be-consulted on the matter of the 'release' of my film without a press showing. That this is an 'odd subterfuge', I agree; but there can be no speculation as to the responsibility for such a decision.

As to the reason, one can only assume that the distributor was so terrified of what the critics might write about it that a rash attempt was made to evade them altogether and smuggle TOUCH OF EVIL directly to the public. This is understandable in the light of the wholesale re-editing of the film by the executive producer, a process of re-hashing in which I was forbidden to participate. Confusion was further confounded by several added scenes which I did not write and was not invited to direct. No wonder Mr. Whitebait speaks of muddle. He is kind enough to say that 'Like Graham Greene' I have 'two levels'. To his charge that I have 'let the higher slip' I plead not guilty. When Mr. Greene finishes one of his 'entertainment's' he is immediately free to set his hand to more challenging enterprises. His typewriter is always available; my camera is not. A typewriter needs only paper; a camera uses film, requires subsidiary equipment by the truck-load and several hundreds of technicians. That is always the central fact about the film-maker as opposed to any other artist: he can never afford to own his own tools. The minimum kit is incredibly expensive; and one's opportunities to work with it are rarer less numerous than might be supposed. In my case, I've. been given the use of my tools exactly eight times in 20 years. Just once my own editing of the film has been the version put into release; and (excepting the Shakespearean experiments) I have only twice been given any voice at all as to the 'level' of my, subject matter. In my trunks stuffed with unproduced films scripts, there are no thrillers. When I make this sort of picture -- for which I can pretend to no special interest or aptitude -- it is not 'for the money' (I support myself as an actor), but because of a greedy need to exercise, in some way, the function of my choice: the function of director. Quite baldly, this is my only choice. I have to take whatever comes along from time to time, or accept, the alternative, which is not working.

Mr. Whitebait revives my own distress at the shapeless poverty of Macbeth's castle. The paper mache' stagy effect in my film was dictated by a 'B-Minus' budget with a 'quickie' shooting schedule of 20 days.. Returning to the current picture, since he comments on the richness of the urban scenery of the Mexican border' perhaps Mr. Whitebait will be amused to learn that all shooting was in Hollywood. There was no attempt to approximate reality; the film's entire 'world' being the director's invention. Finally, while the style of TOUCH OF EVIL may be somewhat overly baroque, there are positively no camera tricks. Nowadays the eye is tamed, I think, by the new wide screens. These 'systems' with their rigid technical limitations are in such monopoly that any vigorous use of the old black -and-white, normal aperture camera runs the risk of seeming tricky by comparison. The old camera permits use of a range of visual conventions as removed from 'realism' as grand opera. This is a language not a bag of tricks. If it is now a dead language, as a candid partisan of the old eloquence, I must face the likelihood that I shall not again be able to put it to the service of any theme of my own choosing.

ORSON WELLES
ROME

Where does the Welles-wanted-widescreen story come from? I've heard it before (probably on the Wellesnet forum), but does anyone have a reliable source?

And in case anyone hasn't seen it, here's Rosenbaum's recent comment:

Quote:
it was never the intention of Murch, me, or our producer Rick Schmidlin to replace the film's original release version or the longer preview version that supplanted it in the 70s. We were hoping that all three could be released in a DVD box set. Universal, are you listening?

I suspect the answer is No.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:05 am 
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Thank you Oat for pullng the threads together in an Arkadian like resolution to THAT fucking argument. ("Pull ze Strink! Pull ze Strink!!!")

The trouble is Rosenbaum has JUST published this statement (I read it last week.) People on a_film_by have been complaining about it for years. I had a debut post there complaining and was greeted with "yes.....".

And people here (well, me at least) have been screeching about a three pass for Touch, definitely in priority to Arkadin, which just seems "so much more recherche, n'est-ce pas?" (Veda to Joan in Mildred Pierce.)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:24 am 
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Wonderful Welles letter.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:41 am 
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Schreck, re screencaps. I've never had the good manners to ask the moderators about bandwidth, etc.

I think it's a good idea but it's totally up to them. And only three of us, as far as I can recall, post caps. The more the merrier, if people feel so moved.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:45 pm 
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I found this quote from a cached page on google. It originally came from http://www.wellesnet.com/ which is down for some reason.

RICK SCHMIDLIN: 1:33 was the ratio Citizen Kane was shot in, as was the practice at the time. Touch of Evil was composed by Welles in 1:85 but shot full frame at the order of the studio. Welles was very aware on the composition he shot the film in. Welles never complained about the ratio because he screened it a 1:85. I guess those who prefer the studio version feel more is better, but that is going against the way the picture was shot and was meant to be seen in theaters. This was supported by both Russell Metty and Philip Lathrop by the records on the original studio screening and the theatrical release screenings. A little homework on this matter goes a long way.

So going back to my original post, I guess they didn't botch it up, the widescreen choice was a result of "a little homework," not caving into some corporate decision at Universal's home video dept.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:31 am 
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Quote:
RICK SCHMIDLIN: 1:33 was the ratio Citizen Kane was shot in, as was the practice at the time. Touch of Evil was composed by Welles in 1:85 but shot full frame at the order of the studio. Welles was very aware on the composition he shot the film in. Welles never complained about the ratio because he screened it a 1:85. I guess those who prefer the studio version feel more is better, but that is going against the way the picture was shot and was meant to be seen in theaters. This was supported by both Russell Metty and Philip Lathrop by the records on the original studio screening and the theatrical release screenings. A little homework on this matter goes a long way.

I have no idea whether this a direct quote to Schmidlin. or a precis or what the hell it is, given it teeters from 1941 to 1959 without a comma. In all likelihood it's a composite of various pieces of Studio bumph typical of the time supporting the widescreen regime.

In any case it requires a vast amount of supporting evidence - go ask Jonathon Rosenbaum who publicly regrets the way Universal refused to reissue the recut in 1.37, along with the "hypothetical" 1.85 print he and Walter Murch pieced together which now constitutes the sole "official" version".

This is one argument that's far from settled.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:00 am 
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It's back up again.

Not familiar with the site, but the quotes seemed to be pulled from posts made by R.S. on the site's message board. However, I feel like he had enough of various, disgruntled posters on that site getting all bitchy in their dismissal of his remarks.

I could give Rosenbaum a call at the Chicago Reader (he's not exactly a hard person to get a hold of...hell, I could probably jump on the El and WALK over to the Reader), assuming the issue doesn't irritate him. As much as he cares about this film, it's very possible he doesn't enjoy getting pelted with complaints/questions from irritated fans about this issue.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:41 am 
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In all seriousness, please do. I dont have that facility, given I live 15,000 miles away, and have never met him. And would be terrified if ever introduced.

Dont get me wrong about the widescreen issue in general, for chrissake. If I thought Touch looked better I would say so but it looks compromised to me (Given the repeated arguments Ive made about the 24mm lenses and the depth of field in low light shooting to support Welles' compositions. As I said the Harry Keller footage (obviously shot in standard 50mm lens) looks a "natural for 1.85 cropping, but the rest does not.
Anyway, a propos this I was watching a recent copy of Ricahrd Quine's Pushover (1954) from a trader ex TCM. It's a full frame open matte version and it's definitely wrong. The lighting is early TV style flat, and Quine has blocked the actors fairly widely even in MCUs , right down to the big finale with MacMurray getting shot (A fabulous scene - this is one of the great missing late Noirs BTW.) Looking over a wide range of B&W Columbias from 53 to 60 it seems clear to me this studio DEFINITELY wanted it's "A" and even "B" titles to go widescreen. Even the copy of Lang's Human Desire I have (Spanish rip) while looking clumsy on a few classic head shots basically looks like the DP framed it for 1.85. I am simply not so sure about Universal's studio regime, despite their early Press Kits and the stuff that's flowed forth ever since. THey did get involved with Scope from the early 50s for "true" Widescreen. Over and above Sirks Scope movies starting with Tarnished Angels there was - apparently - a Scope veriosn of Sign of the Pagan, in tandem with the full frame. But only the 1.33 version survives. I only know ONE person on the planet who's seen this, and his comments tie in to Sirk's own general remakrs about WS and changing regimes with the Ross Hunter/Zugsmith era while he was back in the bosom of Uni.

You always have to take everything Welles said with several grains of salt and a dry martini - Ive just had several (last day of hols) so in no position to really talk but the Touch of Evil issue is alive and festering as far as I can see.
I think the problem with Welles ALWAYS is how on earth can you tell what he wanted? This is surely the core of the fabulous Arkadin boxset - one of the greatest scholarly exercises ever put to DVD. And there's not even a framing issue in this one!

And a plea to the mods - for gawdsake let's change the title of the thread to THREE versions of Touch of Evil. Everyone is forgetting the original 58 Uni studio release - my own favorite frankly.


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:57 am 
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I read on a thread (that I'm buggered if I can find again) there were plans for a dvd edition of all 3 versions. But now on Wellesnet there's this-

Quote:
Celebrating the 50th Anniversary of Orson Welles’ noir masterpiece TOUCH OF EVIL

Since it appears that Universal Home video will not be re-visiting their bare-bones DVD release of Touch of Evil to commemorate it’s 50th Anniversary (although there are still 8 months left to hope)

Would the owner of the aforementioned information kindly step forward and leave his sources in a brown paper bag with the concierge. Thank You.


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:12 am 
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NABOB OF NOWHERE wrote:
I read on a thread (that I'm buggered if I can find again) there were plans for a dvd edition of all 3 versions.

That comment was made here. Surely such a package would be part of Universal's Legacy Series.


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:50 pm 
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At the risk of adding fuel to the fire, I've seen Touch of Evil projected in 35mm and shown in 4:3 on TV and Academy Ratio doesn't look right to me - too much headroom in almost every shot that's not a tight close-up. (I've seen the two later versions, not the original studio cut.)

I also read that Welles quote as being a defence of filming with spherical lenses as opposed to Scope processes.

Were any commercial cinemas still showing Academy Ratio in 1958?


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:18 pm 
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Look at the fourth set of caps down from the top, in the first post by david. There is a light effect created on the ceiling that gets cut off in the widescreen cropping. Clearly Metty went into the next "room" (or set exterior) and positioned a masked lamp on the floor to aim at the ceiling on set and in shot, specifically to be seen. In the high-cost, pennypinching world of filmmaking on a union set, where every extra detail costs quantifiable money (from adding a scarf onto an actress, to moving a set decoration around) that causes execs to roll their eyes with impatience-- you can be sure that lamp was put there for that effect to be in the shot.

And anyhow, those who arent convinced probably cant be convinced...

Image


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:19 pm 
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Showing this in 1.85 is like cutting the arms off the Pieta.

Going back three posts - yes not only were some theatres still screening in Academy in 1958, apart from those equipped for (true) VistaVision or Scope ALL cinemas were screening Academy, and SOME ONLY were screening with masking apparatus.

Metty was meticulous about lighting and shading headroom. If you can be bothered to go and find the caps I posted from the French (and forthcoming Oz) full frame edition of Magnificent Obsession I have tried to give the sequence in shots of the scene of a blind Jane Wyman stumbling alone through the Hotel suite to end on the balcony where she indavertently smashes the vase. In those caps Metty and Sirk begin by keeping the headroom in near total darkness, then through the decoupage and a travelling shot Metty intoduces chiaroscuro and pinshafts of color into it (red and green) until in the final balcony shot the entire headroom is illuminated. All of this visual meaning and expression is lost in the ludicrous 2.00 masking of the worthless UK disc.


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 4:00 am 

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We screened this at Doc Films in 1.37 only a couple months ago. This was definitely framed for that aspect ratio. HerrSchreck is right to point out the lighting effect in the fourth set of caps as evidence to support this argument, because there are a couple other moments in the film, perhaps more than a couple, where effects of a similar sort are implemented. With screen captures it might be more difficult to chalk these effects very definitively to the intentions of the filmmakers. Proceeding from these low-resolution stills, an argument could also be made that they account for little in the grand scheme of the film. But when the film is running through a projector, we see shadows move across that ceiling. We get a sense of a very claustrophobic, cave-like space, which distorts the very figures it encompasses. We begin to see stylistic affinities between this kind of image and similar sequences in "The Trial" or "The Magnificent Ambersons" etc. If you're familiar with how Welles emphasizes ceilings and the entrapping elements of different types of architectures in his other films, you shouldn't be surprised to see them return here. So it becomes very apparent that all these effects are crucial to the stylistic integrity of the film.


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 10:38 am 
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The Summer Movies section of tomorrow's NY Times makes mention of a 50th Anniversary edition of Touch of Evil for July, but that's all it says.


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 10:56 am 
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Anyone know about the Dvd editions?
I've got US, UK and Japanese editions to choose from.
Are they all the same print?


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 7:30 pm 
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I picked up the R1 This Island Earth locally last week and was watching it over the weekend. Imdb swallows the Uni widescreen line on this and quotes it as 2.00:1 - where in fact the PAL versions are 1.85 as against the R1 1.33 . As anyone can see from Beaver's caps the framing crops heads, among other things but more importantly the movie has a number of low angle shots which all look fine in full frame.

Start counting the low angle shots in a Welles picture, including Touch, in which the figures are grouped in vertical positions of control or submission. Then try cropping the shots to 1.85. You can't without ruining the balance of composition.

Interestingly in Chimes at Midnight (Studio Canal 1.78 version) and the Trial there are still low angle shots but Welles has amplified the headroom so that the 1.66 masking simply doesn't hinder composition. The Trial particularly is full of his trademark ceiling shots.

Souvenir does the Times piece say that Universal are releasing this?


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