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Kino Lorber Studio Classics decided to include a timely bit of info in their official ad copy for Go Go Mania and then to the surprise of no one lashed out when customers questioned highlighting this particular participant's contributions.

SEE AND HEAR 16 GREAT ACTS! THE SHIMMIEST, SHAKINGEST SHIVAREE THAT EVER ROCKED THE INTERNATIONAL BEAT! Go Go Mania, also known as Pop Gear, is a rollickin’ British music revue film featuring concert footage from legendary rock acts like The Beatles, Eric Burdon and the Animals, Herman’s Hermits, The Spencer Davis Group and many others. Each segment is introduced by Jimmy Savile, longtime host of BBC’s Top of the Pops, and includes “She Loves You” and “Twist and Shout” by The Beatles; “The House of the Rising Sun” and “Don’t Let Me Be Misunderstood” by The Animals; “I’m into Something Good” by Herman’s Hermits; “My Babe” by The Spencer Davis Group (featuring Steve Winwood); “A World Without Love” by Peter and Gordon; “Pop Gear” and “Walk Away” by Matt Monro; and many, many more!

Oh my god I cannot believe they're releasing this without even a gesture towards acknowledging this man's crimes.

What are they supposed to say?

Each segment is introduced by disgraced sex monster Jimmy Savile, longtime host of BBC’s Top of the Pops, and includes...

Well I don't think Bill Cosby, to take one example, would be so casually referred to without some acknowledgment of his crimes, especially when it sounds like Savile is present throughout the film.

swo17 wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:34 am What are they supposed to say?

Each segment is introduced by disgraced sex monster Jimmy Savile, longtime host of BBC’s Top of the Pops, and includes...

Obviously the solution is they don’t go out of their way to mention him at all. They could even keep the identical ad copy and replace “Jimmy Savile” with the word “a”...

One crucial difference is that Cosby was convicted in an actual court, the evidence of his crimes being of a sufficient standard to secure a conviction, whereas Savile was only convicted in the court of public opinion.

I’m hearing quite a bit right now about how the present Labour Party leader Keir Starmer “allowed him to get away with his crimes” when Director of Public Prosecutions, but the fact is that the evidence presented to Starmer simply wasn’t strong enough to justify what would inevitably have been a very high profile trial.

In this particular case, given what’s emerged since his death, I’d be amazed if Savile was wholly innocent, but this situation does raise uncomfortable questions concerning due process. Woody Allen is in a similar category - in fact, in his case there was an extensive investigation followed by the conclusion that there was no case to answer, and yet he’s still widely regarded as guilty as hell.

So where do we draw the line?

Are there Jimmy Savile fans right now, though? Who does highlighting this info appeal to as a selling point?

I think the difference between Allen and Savile - although of course reasonable people disagree - is that Savile had 450 different people make allegations against him, whereas Allen has one. I think the balance of probability means we can assess pretty confidentally that Savile was guilty of sexual abuse on an enormous scale.

The fact that you’re using a phrase like “assess pretty confidently” highlights how important it is for questions like this to be asked!

After all, we don’t need to “assess pretty confidently” when it comes to Bill Cosby.

As I said, I’d be astounded if Savile turned out to be squeaky-clean, but that’s based on assessing the balance of probability, which isn’t a good basis for making confidently emphatic statements.

domino harvey wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:53 am Are there Jimmy Savile fans right now, though? Who does highlighting this info appeal to as a selling point?

I understand where your perfectly reasonable solution is coming from (and it would have been preferable) but, in terms of what was actually said, is it even phrased as a selling point though or just factual information?

There's every possibility that it's old copy that was simply cut and pasted.

Jimmy Savile is of course notorious in the UK, but Kino Lorber is an American company, so it's not at all incredible that nobody noticed at that end. Sometimes things that are obvious in one country are much less so in another - to cite an example in connection with one of this week's Blu-ray releases, how many native English speakers watching Krzysztof Kieślowski's Blind Chance are aware that its leading man is a huge box-office draw in Poland as a slambang action star?

They could rephrase the whole thing apart, at the bottom of the back blurb, and as a warning.

SEE AND HEAR 16 GREAT ACTS! THE SHIMMIEST, SHAKINGEST SHIVAREE THAT EVER ROCKED THE INTERNATIONAL BEAT! Go Go Mania, also known as Pop Gear, is a rollickin’ British music revue film featuring concert footage from legendary rock acts like The Beatles, Eric Burdon and the Animals, Herman’s Hermits, The Spencer Davis Group and many others. Includes “She Loves You” and “Twist and Shout” by The Beatles; “The House of the Rising Sun” and “Don’t Let Me Be Misunderstood” by The Animals; “I’m into Something Good” by Herman’s Hermits; “My Babe” by The Spencer Davis Group (featuring Steve Winwood); “A World Without Love” by Peter and Gordon; “Pop Gear” and “Walk Away” by Matt Monro; and many, many more!

* Be aware that each segment is introduced by Jimmy Savile, longtime host of BBC's Top of the Pops, and who has since been recognized by the UK police to have been a predatory sex offender.

Maybe they should slap one of those "Parental Advisory" stickers on the cover.

Jimmy Savile's hospital abuse: the full dossier

Jimmy Savile's hospital abuse: the full dossier

These are only the accusations of his abuse in hospitals and institutions.

Michael B, you are intitled to your opinion, but to remark that " I’d be astounded if Savile turned out to be squeaky-clean", and use the example of a Polish actor's versatility
to highlight your point is frankly, staggering.

Kino can release it, people can buy it, but with the overwhelming anecdotal and documented evidence of the crimes of this sexual predator, there is simply no defence for including his contribution to this release. Some time capsules should stay buried.

How rude! wrote:Jimmy Savile's hospital abuse: the full dossier

Jimmy Savile's hospital abuse: the full dossier

These are only the accusations of his abuse in hospitals and institutions.

Michael B, you are intitled to your opinion, but to remark that " I’d be astounded if Savile turned out to be squeaky-clean", and use the example of a Polish actor's versatility
to highlight your point is frankly, staggering.

Kino can release it, people can buy it, but with the overwhelming anecdotal and documented evidence of the crimes of this sexual predator, there is simply no defence for including his contribution to this release. Some time capsules should stay buried.

With respect, what’s “frankly staggering” is the way that you’re determined to present my argument in the worst possible light both by cherry-picking bits of it out of context and completely missing (or cynically ignoring) the point of my analogy — which was entirely to do with a person’s notoriety often being limited to national borders and it not being reasonable to expect foreign labels to investigate the bona fides of every contributor to an upcoming release.

But this wouldn’t be the first time you’ve given me a finger-wagging lecture on the basis of a fallacious position, would it? At least your username is impeccably chosen.

Also your link doesn't work

MichaelB wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:45 am There's every possibility that it's old copy that was simply cut and pasted.

Jimmy Savile is of course notorious in the UK, but Kino Lorber is an American company, so it's not at all incredible that nobody noticed at that end. Sometimes things that are obvious in one country are much less so in another - to cite an example in connection with one of this week's Blu-ray releases, how many native English speakers watching Krzysztof Kieślowski's Blind Chance are aware that its leading man is a huge box-office draw in Poland as a slambang action star?

To further your point it took me a good five minutes to figure out what the opening post was referring to and that was with me actively looking for something.

Yeah I'm from Canada and didn't really know who Jimmy Savile was and about the accusations. It would make sense to mention him if he was the host of the show and was presenting the acts, although I can also see Kino just not mentioning his name or who the host is. But the possibility raised by how rude! of not "including his contribution to this release" doesn't make sense if he is indeed presenting the acts and they are interacting with him.

I assume how rude! meant including his contributions to the ad copy/back cover description, not cutting him from the film. No one is calling for censorship (or at least I'm not), just a little common sense in perhaps not highlighting Savile's participation when his presence isn't the selling point for anyone

What about this pullquote, splitting the difference:

Each segment is introduced by Jimmy Savile, in a rare turn, not raping legendary rock acts like The Beatles, Eric Burdon and the Animals, Herman’s Hermits, The Spencer Davis Group and many others

Even apart from Savile's involvement, from what I know of this film it's a very strange thing to release -- a bunch of lip-sync performances and some old Beatles newsreel footage, as I understand it. But I was thrown by the cavalier way Savile's name was tossed off as well; like MichaelB I wouldn't be surprised if it was very old copy revised by someone unaware of who he was.

There's no real avoiding Savile's name in any deep exploration of British Invasion-era rock. He's pretty impossible to skirt in the Beatles' history, for instance (as is Rolf Harris). But it's still tone-deaf to use him as a selling point in my opinion.

swo17 wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:01 pm What about this pullquote, splitting the difference:

Each segment is introduced by Jimmy Savile, in a rare turn, not raping legendary rock acts like The Beatles, Eric Burdon and the Animals, Herman’s Hermits, The Spencer Davis Group and many others

dustybooks wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:03 pmBut I was thrown by the cavalier way Savile's name was tossed off as well; like MichaelB I wouldn't be surprised if it was very old copy revised by someone unaware of who he was.

If so, there would be an easy solution. Instead of getting upset and doubling down/accusing decriers of being censors (the tactic KL Insider naturally took), they could say, "Wow, we hadn't realized / didn't catch that. We'll look into if there is a different way to describe this film before we go to press"-- don't even have to be committal about it, just acknowledge that this isn't a good look, however unintentionally

I still don't see why this generated an outcry in the first place. I won't defend KL's response, but it's not as though they described Savile in a complimentary way. The description simply notes that he introduces the segments. If anything, his name should be mentioned so that potential buyers who may not wish to engage with anything he was involved in know ahead of time to avoid this disc. Without having seen this movie, it seems as though he figures prominently in it. If he made a 10-second cameo appearance, then yes, mentioning his name would be weird.

How is this any different from Warner Archive's recent release of The Fearless Vampire Killers, for which the description states that Roman Polanski wrote, directed, and starred in it but makes no mention of his status as a convicted sex criminal who has avoided serving prison time for more than 40 years? The description even ends with the cheeky line, "It's all fang-tastic fun!" I mean, these companies are selling movies that happen to involve people guilty of heinous criminal activity (or allegedly so in Savile's case, my Texas self isn't familiar with him). If the descriptions are upfront with their involvement, then customers can make informed decisions. No company in the world is going to advertise a participant's sexual deviance.