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Since we're embarking on our third iteration of the Lists Project, here's a new version of the old thread where you get to plead the cause for the films you voted for that didn't make it to the aggregate list.

EDIT: I wanted to include a bit of history here, and it took a while to dig it up. The idea for this thread was mooted by Hrossa in 2005, after the first 1950s vote. I contributed "Defend Your Darlings," lord_clyde coined "Sad Panda", and Hrossa initiated the thread and forever conjoined those two terms in its title.

Even if it's in the end all about film love, I'd nevertheless would be interested to hear why some high ranking films didn't appear on certain lists. So a "hate this classic" and "sorry forgot to watch this film" part in your posts would be quite interesting I think.

I'm 'listed out' after recently completing my very first 'Top 1,000' list: not ranked in order, apart from my Top Three, but grouped in batches of 100+, apart from the remainder of my Top 10.

(my previous largest list was 'Top 250')

It might be appropriate for me to start by defending this
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The Rice-Irwin Kiss (aka May Irwin Kiss) itself is pleasant enough viewing today, but all the facts and questions surrounding its reception are what I find most intriguing. It was one of the most popular films of the time it was released (1896). And not contradictory to this, many apparently considered it a real scandal. Why? To answer this, I think it’s useful to distinguish the kiss itself (the event) from the filming, projection, and presentation of it (the act of watching). Such kisses were performed regularly on the stage, but these were seen from a distance and in the context of the story. Here the kiss was intimate and was the focus, the sole point of the film.
Many viewers also likely did not know that Rice and Irwin were actors, mistaking the film for a genuine moment of intimacy between lovers. Such a kiss per se would not have been scandalous in private or discreetly in a public place like a park. I can only imagine that it was the notion of such a private moment being recorded and presented as entertainment that scandalized some people. The shocked reactions pretended to disguise a new cinematic voyeurism at the same time the film delighted people, and this voyeurism was itself the real issue. The sense of shock and discomfort indicate what an upheaval in public consciousness (broadly speaking) cinema presented in those first few years.

I also like the story Donald Richie tells about the showing of the film in Japan, where it was among the earliest “foreign films” widely seen. Whereas western audiences would watch the film only once, in Japan it was spliced end-on-end and viewed a dozen or more times at once. They must have found it quite interesting! I don't think it's known what exactly happened at such presentations but, in the incident in the story, the police showed up to investigate, prompting the commentator to deflect suspicions with the fabrication that in the West people casually greeted each other with a full kiss on the mouth (so really this was like watching a film of people shaking hands). I think audiences knew better. So here we see how the appreciation of this film – whether through a reaction of being scandalized, and/or surreptitious or open appreciation of it – perhaps took on an inter-cultural dimension when it was screened abroad.

If anyone knows of similar accounts about early screenings of this or other early actualities, I'd be extremely interested to read them, either here or, for that matter, in the “Truly Barmy Audience Reactions” thread. I've read passing references to people running behind the screen at early presentations of Lumière films to look for actors and props -- remarkable if true, considering that the films were in black and white.

Did none of you rent the Saved from the Flames disc? Tsk, tsk, tsk, only explanation for why Piene du Talion didn't get a second vote. It has all of the subtlety of a drunken elephant on a freight train, but the inking and ballet nature really lift the short above that. I know it's after the fact, but do try to watch this wonderful film. Ditto Spring, I guess my early obnoxiousness did nothing for that.

Netflix doesn't appear to carry it, and I asked my library to purchase it but they never got around to it, so I wasn't able to fit it in, sorry.

I would simply like to know whether Lubitsch and I were the only people who actually watched Fritz Lang's "Harakiri", or whether it wasn't attractive enough for the others not to vote for it. It seems that I was the only one who voted for it (#13 on my list), and this is a little surprising for me given its beauty and especially the general popularity of Lang. Also somehow surprised that "Tih Minh" only got 2 votes.

Is it out on DVD? I'd sure like to see it

No, it's only available in a recording from French TV of a brand-new resto at the moment. Wild speculation only, but I'm pretty convinced that a dvd will follow in the not too distant future. I count on divisa who already released Lang's "Das wandernde Bild", though it should be very obviously stuff for Kino and MoC as well.

Gregory, I had another look at the John C. Rice-May Irwin Kiss on the Edison set, and there Charles Musser gives some interesting context: apparently Irwin wanted to play alongside a younger actor in the play, The Widow Jones, in which this kiss originated, but after the success of the film audiences only wanted to see John C. Rice doing the smooching, and his replacement went down like a lead balloon. All sorts of nonsense about him giving kissing lessons, the New York World printing the film as a series of photographs and analysing each frame, reviewers going on about how the actors' tongues would intertwine for minutes on end... What's interesting to me is what a pioneering example of the close-up this is, with the actors' faces pressed against each other as they read their lines, in a way that would have rendered the dialogue inaudible on stage. And of course this is quite prophetic about the development of a quieter, more intimate form of acting appropriate to the screen, as opposed to the stage. No doubt part of the film's appeal was seeing this famous stage kiss in all its glorious detail. It's very teasing as well - the way I remembered it, they kiss all the way through the film, but actually it's a kind of prolonged near-kiss, and the extant version stops abruptly just as the two pairs of lips finally make contact (after that funny, but slightly creepy, thing that Rice does when he prepares his moustache for the big occasion).

Tih Minh is still on my to-do list, and I'm looking forward to devoting some time to it. But reactions to it seem to have been quite luke-warm in most quarters. I'd be interested to hear someone speak up for what makes it a classic.

Anyway, I wanted to just mention a film I didn't vote for but wish I had done: August Blom's Atlantis. My expectations were very high, but after a first viewing I felt totally lost - the film hadn't engaged me emotionally or intellectually, so that despite my admiration for it I couldn't really put it on my list. The sets are decorated, and arranged within the frame, with such elegance, precision and restraint, but I found it hard to see how the mise-en-scène contributed to the mood or the psychology of the narrative. There's an English translation of the novel online, which I've so far only skimmed through very briefly, but even a cursory glance at this reveals part of the problem: the main character's infatuation with a dancer, which is described in terms of burning passion mixed with contempt (for both her and himself) in the novel, is shown in the film only from a great distance, in a series of uneventful episodes which are very hard to interpret. It was made in 1913, and would have benefited a great deal from the advances of the next few years - with more close-ups and intertitles, there would be more methods with which to get the audience involved in this alienating tale. Cinematically, Atlantis is far more advanced than, say, Ingeborg Holm, but even with more emotive source material it doesn't look as though Blom had Sjostrom's knack for wringing pathos out of a scene. His goal is, rather, a kind of cold perfection in the arrangement of individual shots, and sequences of shots. The whole shipwreck sequence could be a template for so many later disaster films, pacing the action with an intelligence that rivals similar sequences by Griffith or Walsh, especially when it reaches its final stages. And yet, as entertainment, it remains unsuspenseful.

On a second viewing, the perfection of Atlantis, however cold and unengaging, seemed far more impressive, and the set decoration seemed richer with meaning, easier to 'read'. And it's really a very impressive early attempt at large-scale literary adaptation; one of these days I'll try and read the whole novel, and I'm sure this will shed a good deal of light on the film's more puzzling aspects.

This film is particularly worth seeing for two quite amazing dream sequences. The first comes just at the point where we know that the ship is sinking - but the film pauses to show us Dr. Kammacher's dream of being shown around Atlantis by his dead colleague. At the end of the dream, Kammacher is taken into an idyllic garden, where a gardener speaks to him. In the book, this gardener is one of the ship's stokers who had died earlier on, and he says something ominous like 'Soon many will follow me'. In the film, we don't know what he's saying, but as he stands on the left side of the frame, he gestures with one hand towards the middle; and at that moment, the dream image superimposed onto Kammacher's cabin vanishes, just as a man bursts through the door - in the exact spot towards which the gardener had pointed - to tell the hero the ship is sinking. So it's as if the dream has told Kammacher the bad news before that news even wakes him up. The film is full of uncannily beautiful moments like this.

So what do others think of this one? Did anybody vote for it?

Sloper wrote: Anyway, I wanted to just mention a film I didn't vote for but wish I had done: August Blom's Atlantis.

I almost voted for it, too, but in the end it got pushed down to #51 on my list. I found it to be a very uneven film even though it is exceptionally well-made. As you mention, the dream sequences are quite wonderful--and reason enough to see the film--but the whole thing just felt too unfocused and lacking in urgency to be deserving of a spot on my list. I'll try to watch it again soon to see if my opinion of it improves.

Sloper, thanks for the reminder about Musser's comments on The Kiss, which I think I heard years ago and forgot about, along with memories of most commentaries. I like the point you make about how it presents a new style of acting suited to film.

Sloper wrote:No doubt part of the film's appeal was seeing this famous stage kiss in all its glorious detail.

I think that was certainly true for a lot of New York audiences and the most in-the-know viewers elsewhere, but I still wonder whether many or most viewers when it was shown around the simply took it as a documented kiss of a "real" couple. I assumed it was generally stuck on a program with a bunch of other actualities like those on Edison disc 1, many of which also feature seasoned performers, also. Or perhaps this was generally not the case, and the "scandal" I discussed earlier, at least in the U.S., sprang from some kind of proto-People-magazine celebrity gossip fascination.

I did not get to see Atlantis, unfortunately. Or Lang's Harakiri.

knives wrote:Did none of you rent the Saved from the Flames disc?

I have it, and it makes for great viewing, though I didn't recall anything on it being top-50-worthy, IMO. Another one not to miss is Flicker Alley's Discovering Cinema set, which in addition to two fine documentaries features generous helpings of films from the 1890s-1930s as extras. The color films are especially beautiful.

I watched Harakiri, and perhaps it was from being overtired or perhaps it was the crummy picture quality (I don't have a copy of the recent broadcast), but the film didn't inspire much of anything in me. I'd certainly like to revisit it another time but the initial viewing was thoroughly 'meh'. I really dug Die Spinnen though.

As for Tih Minh, well my French is good enough to get the jist of the intertitles, but not enough to get the flavor, and the absence of a score as well as the poor picture quality made it a tough slog to get through. I would love to see the restored version in order to really appreciate and judge the film, but based on what I saw, it seemed a weaker Feuillade. I am surprised Judex didn't finish higher, I was very impressed by that one, much more so than Fantomas.

I am very surprised that I seem to be the only who voted for Maurice Elvey's The Life Story of David Lloyd George. Was it simply the lack of availability?

Yeah, I spent a good two hours searching that one out, but it is a tough find. Maybe we'll get lucky and the BFI will release it, but for now it is one of a billion holes that are difficult to fill.

Lloyd George isn't hard to find at all as with all films enter the title and DVD at google and you can easily find out if anything's available. http://siop.llgc.org.uk/perl/go.pl/shop ... 1862250774

As for my darlings, well Chaplin is obvious. I find The Cure especially funny with the massage sequence and the strategically placed well, so I'm completely baffled about being the single voter. Some love Keaton, some love Chaplin, it's always been this way though Chaplin was far far more popular and it seems always rather an act intellectual pleasure to watch Keaton's mechanically executed gags and his puppet character than Chaplin's more lively and individual tramp. But wherever you stand, 25th place for the best Chaplin is beyond any reasonable debate.
Then I have a group of thre films which are very specifical for their era, it's a Victorian genre of heroines with a kind soul and great beauty but not always the best circumstances in life. The Wishing Ring collected very few votes beyond mine, The Golden Chance and The Ocean Waif none at all though all three films were in my top dozen of films. Whatever the limitations of the genre and the classicism of Golden Chance was already pointed out, these films have two assets: the quiet beauty of a lost world before the first World War and the grace of the lead actresses who seem to belong to another era. The Wishing Ring stylizes itself as an idyll of Old England, but it's more about being in an old garden, watching innocuous games by children, delicately lit, sensitively played, no hysteric melodrama, just a quiet fairytale. These films often give very much space for the lead actress to build a performance, especially Doris Kenyon in Ocean Waif has much opportunity to play a plucky heroine not being constrained by any melodramatical stuff we so often assiociate with the era. She's totally at ease and relaxed and it's a beautiful performance which also goes for the forgotten Cleo ridgely who so uncannily remembers me of Romy Schneider and though she's surrounded by a more conventional framework than the one in the two other films, she's the most stunning and in a strange way a (seemingly contradictory) very modern star presence of the 10s. I know that Everson loved the Wishing ring and Robert Birchard appreciates The Golden Chance maybe somebody will support the Ocean Waif sometime.

I didn't vote for "Atlantis", simply because I didn't manage to see it. This was probably the most sore gap on my 'to do'-list. I voted for another Blom, though, "The end of the world", a film which depicts the reactions on the news that a comet will hit the earth and cause a huge catastrophe. I found it particularly interesting in the way how its pulpy story foreshadows a lot of Lang (greedy shareholders speculating and manipulating in the face of disaster, for instance), but also picks up on Feuillade occasionally in my view. Thoroughly entertaining in any case. The same disc by the DFI contains another film I ranked even higher, Holger-Madsen's "Himmelskibet", a fascinating early Science Fiction vehicle showing a peaceful Martian society from which the visitors from Earth do learn a lot. Very much in the vein of classical utopias, with the Martians indeed being dressed like people from old Greece. Technically and visually very inventive, I find it's a great companion piece to later films like "Aelita" or even "Frau im Mond". The missing link between Mélies' "Voyage a la lune" and these later films in any case.

Okay, it’s darling time.

Here was my top twenty, with comments on the unloved

1. Interior New York Subway 14th Street to 42nd Street (Bitzer, 1905)
2. The Outlaw and His Wife (Sjostrom, 1918)
3. Love and Journalism (Stiller, 1916) – A bit of a long story this. I was fortunate enough to see a short retrospective of Swedish silent cinema nearly twenty years ago, and this was my favourite of the bunch. I couldn’t believe such an early film had this level of subtlety and sophistication. But since I have never been able to see it since, I don’t know how much it’s running on the fumes of nostalgia. Originally, I ranked the five films I saw in the following order: Love and Journalism, Erotikon, The Outlaw and His Wife, Sir Arne’s Treasure, The Phantom Carriage. And they were all great. I sort of felt a bit shabby pushing the Sjostrom over this, even after all this time, but that’s one of the consequences of lack of availability.
4. Blind Justice (Christensen, 1916)
5. Les Vampires (Feuillade, 1915)
6. Tram Rides through Nottingham (Mitchell & Kenyon, 1902) – Well, by some weird coincidence, I actually came across the programme for the screening where I saw this tiny gem, and the film I’m actually voting for is Nottingham Tram Ride #2. I can even give the M&K number, if you like.
7. The Sinking of the Lusitania (McCay, 1918)
8. Laveuses sur la riviere (Lumiere, 1897)
9. A Lively Quarter-Day (Paul)
10. South (Hurley, 1919)
11. J’Accuse (Gance, 1919)
12. L’Enfant de Paris (Perret, 1913)
13. Cenere (Mari, 1916)
14. Regeneration (Walsh, 1915)
15. Blind Husbands (von Stroheim, 1919)
16. One Touch of Nature (Miller, 1914) – I may be a crazy lone voice, but I’ll stand by my claim that this is the greatest film of 1914 (that I’ve seen), and is visually way ahead of some films made ten years later.
17. After Death (Bauer, 1915)
18. Ask Father (Lloyd, 1919)
19. Sir Arne’s Treasure (Stiller, 1919)
20. Broken Blossoms (Griffith, 1919)

Further darlings:

33. Out West (Arbuckle, 1918) – Already discussed: much more grace and humour than any of the Chaplins I saw from the era, and more going on visually as well.
36. Panoramic View Aisle B, Westinghouse Works (Bitzer, 1904) – Already well discussed.
40. Thomas Graal’s Best Film (Stiller, 1917) – The nearest I could get to Love and Journalism, I suppose. I’ve tended to be more impressed by Stiller’s comedies than his epics (which accounts for why my ranking of Sir Arne seems to have been lower than almost anybody else’s!)
41. The Heart and Money (Feuillade, 1912) – Already discussed.
46. The Hayseed (Arbuckle, 1919) – A bit patchy, but enough invention to get it over the line.
48. In the Land of the War Canoes (Curtis, 1914) – Maybe a bit loosey-goosey in terms of structured documentary, but the footage is completely fascinating, and I feel like I owe this vote to the German experimental filmmakers (Nekes and Kluge) who have kept its images fresh in my mind.
50. Thais (Bragaglia, 1917) – Also already discussed. Its placing here is almost entirely due to that spectacular finale.

Gregory wrote:I still wonder whether many or most viewers when [The Kiss] was shown around the world simply took it as a documented kiss of a "real" couple.

I'm sure that's true, and this was certainly how I perceived it for a long time. It feels like we're intruding on a private moment, doesn't it - in line with the 'peep show' sensibility of these very early years, but undoubtedly the most charming example I've seen.

myrnaloyisdope wrote:I am very surprised that I seem to be the only who voted for Maurice Elvey's The Life Story of David Lloyd George. Was it simply the lack of availability?

Having been hugely impressed by Hindle Wakes, I was really looking forward to this, but I'm afraid I didn't like it. There are wonderful moments - the outdoor photography, and especially that extended montage Elvey develops out of the 'final roll-call' - but comparisons with Griffith, or with later 'biopics', seem misguided. I spent most of the film feeling that it didn't work in dramatic terms, that it was too fragmentary and repetitive, weighted down by lengthy intertitles, and generally lacking in all the techniques biopics tend to use to get us involved in the hero's story - those fictionalising techniques which can often seem laughable, but which I dearly missed in this case. But I feel I got the wrong end of the stick here. It's the documentary-like, newsreel quality that, I'm sure, makes the film special.

Watching Homunculus (Revenge of the Test-Tube Baby!) just now, I couldn't help comparing the wonderful crowd scenes in this 1916 film to what seemed to me the utterly detached, un-cinematic ones in David Lloyd George, made two years later. And Kevin Brownlow's throwaway comment about Elvey outdoing Griffith's Intolerance, because he had more extras, kind of annoyed me - Griffith may have been directing smaller crowds, but he had them doing a whole lot more than just seething. But maybe the un-cinematic quality of these crowd scenes is intentional, a way of making it seem like actual news footage. And actually - as you, myrna, suggested in the thread you started for this film - this negation of biopic/epic clichés indicates that Elvey's film has a different purpose. The extreme topicality of the subject matter is perhaps the key to it: this is primarily an educational film, rather than a piece of entertainment, and as with Weber's Hypocrites I find this marriage of art and didacticism (in this case involving history lessons and propaganda rather than sermonising) really thought-provoking. So I'm not sure this will ever be a favourite of mine, but I can't wait to see it again.

The same applies to J'Accuse. I fully expected to be putting it near the top of my list, but then so much of it seemed off the mark... Here's a link to the wonderful discussion of the film in the Gance thread between La Clé du Ciel, tryavna and others. The film really got me thinking about the whole form/content issue again, and I just wanted to pick out this nugget from that discussion (the part regarding La Roue):

La Clé du Ciel wrote:I can’t tell you just how many times I have read the same thing said about Gance again and again. Content = primitive hokum; style = radical progression. This is far too simplistic a judgement. The absolute necessity of examining how form and content function together in Gance’s films is something that needs to be addressed.

Indeed, while watching J'Accuse I kept feeling that it was the content that bothered me - the tedious, maudlin love triangle specifically - but actually there are narratives just as hokey in some of the films that placed very high on my list. The problem was in the handling of the story, the style of acting, the pomposity of the compositions, editing, and so on. And I'd just assumed that, this being Gance, the cinematic technique would dazzle me into loving the film... Anyway, it's another one I need to re-visit as soon as possible.

Tommaso, I can't wait to get my hands on that DFI disc, it does look wonderful. On the Atlantis disc there's a fragment from Holger-Madsen's Liebelei, with some absolutely stunning footage of the duel in the woods - some of the best 'woodland' photography I've seen from this era. Speaking of which...

zedz wrote:16. One Touch of Nature (Miller, 1914) – I may be a crazy lone voice, but I’ll stand by my claim that this is the greatest film of 1914 (that I’ve seen), and is visually way ahead of some films made ten years later.

I did re-visit this after you praised it to the skies earlier on, and although I'm still not sure I would call it a favourite (just a personal thing, the kid annoys me) it's undoubtedly a very beautiful, very simple and lyrical film. It really stands out on the Edison set. (That common and egregious mis-quoting of Shakespeare gets on my tits, though - it's really a very cynical judgement on the universal stupidity of mankind, ironically taken out of context and made into something warm and fuzzy. Your stupid, stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!)

Most of my picks were very well supported across the group (my #1 finished at #1 and 31 of my top 32 picks made the list), so I really don’t have much to complain about. Still, I do have a few darlings to defend. Here is my full list (hope no one minds!), with comments on the neglected and abandoned:

1. Sir Arne’s Treasure (Stiller, 1919)
2. The President (Dreyer, 1919)
3. After Death (Bauer, 1915)
4. Blind Justice (Christensen, 1916)
5. The Outlaw and His Wife (Sjöström, 1918)
6. The Dying Swan (Bauer, 1917)
7. The Sinking of the Lusitania (McCay, 1918)
8. Intolerance (Griffith, 1916)
9. Regeneration (Walsh, 1915)
10. The Land Beyond the Sunset (Shaw, 1912)
11. Terje Vigen (Sjöström, 1917)
12. Ingeborg Holm (Sjöström, 1913)
13. The Avenging Conscience (Griffith, 1914)
14. Daydreams (Bauer, 1915)
15. The Mysterious X (Christensen, 1914)
16. Child of the Big City (Bauer, 1914)
17. The Passer-by (Apfel, 1912)
18. Towards the Light (Holger-Madsen, 1919) – My highest ranking orphan and my favorite of the four films on the DFI Asta Nielsen disc (The Abyss, which did make the list, is another great one). Here, Nielsen plays a self-centered countess who is courted by two men—an adventurous baron and a lonely professor’s nephew whose ever-present and supportive cousin can’t seem to get him to realize that she’s in love with him. Tragedy strikes early, then misfortune comes knocking, leaving the poor countess guilt-ridden, heartbroken, and desperate to atone for her past behavior. All of this leads her to a curious and transformative relationship with the town parson. There is a spiritual side to all of this, which does occasionally come across as a bit heavy-handed, but the film’s abundant charms provide ample distraction from these “message” passages. For me, one of the film’s delights is that Holger-Madsen’s mise-en-scène (particularly in his interiors) is quite similar to Bauer’s—there are angled camera-shots, mirrors and important details along the edges of the frame, and characters eavesdropping or lurking around corners. If you had Bauer, Christensen and Dreyer on your list, this film is more of what you’re looking for.
19. Cabiria (Pastrone, 1914)
20. J’Accuse! (Gance, 1919)
21. Fantômas (Feuillade, 1913-14)
22. The Italian (Barker, 1915)
23. Suspense (Weber/Smalley, 1913)
24. The Blue Bird (Tourneur, 1918)
25. Blind Husbands (von Stroheim, 1919)
26. Dickson Experimental Sound Film (Dickson/Heise, 1894)
27. Panoramic View of the Morecambe Sea Front (Mitchell/Kenyon, 1901)
28. Interior New York Subway, 14th St. to 42nd St. (Bitzer, 1905)
29. Coney Island at Night (Porter, 1905)
30. Civilization (Ince/West/Barker, 1916)
31. Il fuoco (Pastrone, 1916)
32. Hell’s Hinges (Swickard, 1916)
33. Different from the Others (Oswald, 1919) – Orphan #2. Narratively, this one is a bit on the dry side, but I was impressed by how daring a project this was given the time-period, and I was moved by Conrad Veidt’s performance.
34. Victory (Tourneur, 1919)
35. The Wishing Ring (Tourneur, 1914)
36. A Life for a Life (Bauer, 1916) – Orphan #3. So many Bauer films made the final list, but I was surprised that no one else went for this tragedy of two half-sisters in love with the same man. All the great Bauer touches are there, included the devastating final shot.
37. For Happiness (Bauer, 1917)
38. A Lively Quarter-Day (Martin/Paul, 1906)
39. Twilight of a Woman’s Soul (Bauer, 1913)
40. The Wrath of the Gods (Barker, 1914) – Orphan #4. The “extra” on the Milestone Dragon Painter disc and an eerie and atmospheric tale of a woman dealing with a rather unfortunate curse. Most noteworthy is the climactic titular sequence, which is elaborately staged and full of tension.
41. Revolutionary (Bauer, 1917)
42. The Wicked Darling (Browning, 1919) – Orphan #5. Given that Victory just barely made the list, I suppose this “extra” on the same disc didn’t stand much of a chance. If you like seeing Lon Chaney’s villainous side, this crime thriller is not to be missed.
43. The Dragon Painter (Worthington, 1919) – Orphan, the last. I remember reading a fair amount of positive comments about this one on the forum around the time of its DVD release, so I thought this one was a shoe-in for most folks. The story is a sort of melodramatically textured fairytale—a bit far-fetched, perhaps, and simple in its characterizations—but the elements Milestone used are in gorgeous condition and the film itself is playful and charming.
44. The Mystery of the Rocks of Kador (Perret, 1912)
45. Wild and Woolly (Emerson, 1917) – I didn’t see nearly as many Fairbanks films as I should have , but this was my favorite one. I think this turned out to be the funniest film I saw for the project (just ahead of Feuillade’s The Colonel’s Account, which it pained me to excluded from my list). Fairbanks is so likeable here as the Western-obsessed city boy, and the story itself is an action-packed hoot!
46. The Heart and the Money (Feuillade, 1912) – My favorite of the Feuillade (or perhaps it really is Perret, as Ann Harding suggested) films in the Kino Gaumont Treasures set. It’s modestly scaled and emotionally rich, but mostly I love it for its striking conclusion.
47. Hypocrites (Weber, 1915)
48. Cameraman’s Revenge (Starewicz, 1912)
49. When the Clouds Roll By (Fleming, 1919)
50. The Child of Paris (Perret, 1913)

Because participation in this list was so limited, I would be interested in seeing full lists from anyone who would like to share.

EDIT - I forgot to address this earlier:

lubitsch wrote:Even if it's in the end all about film love, I'd nevertheless would be interested to hear why some high ranking films didn't appear on certain lists. So a "hate this classic" and "sorry forgot to watch this film" part in your posts would be quite interesting I think.

Of the films that made the final list, but did not make my own, I saw the following: Broken Blossoms, Les Vampires, Die Austernprinzessin, Easy Street, The Birth of a Nation, Le voyage dans la lune, Die Puppe, The Immigrant, Laveuses sur la rivière, The Big Swallow, La sortie des usines Lumière, Bucking Broadway, Fantasmagorie, The Teddy Bears, The Great Train Robbery, Ich möchte kein Mann sein, The Invaders, Die Spinnen, Gertie the Dinosaur, Life of an American Fireman, Monkeyshines No. 1, Judex, A Corner in Wheat, Le printemps, Tram Ride into Halifax, Serpentine Dance, Afgrunden, Figures de cire, Der Student von Prag, Mary Jane's Mishap, Ask Father, La vie du Christ, and The Country Doctor. I liked almost all of these, and very nearly included a few (Afgrunden, Judex, and A Corner in Wheat) on my list, but in the end I simply could not find room for any of them.

reno dakota wrote:Because participation in this list was so limited, I would be interested in seeing full lists from anyone who would like to share.

Ditto. Here's my list; pretty obvious stuff I'm afraid. By my count, only six didn't make the final list, and they're all below the 30-mark.

1. The Birth of a Nation
2. Intolerance
3. Terje Vigen
4. The President
5. The Passer-by
6. After Death
7. Regeneration
8. Il Fuoco
9. The Avenging Conscience
10. Cabiria
11. For Happiness
12. Hypocrites
13. La Vie du Christ (Guy/Jasset). Nice to see this one get in, even if only on two votes!
14. The Painted Lady
15. Bucking Broadway
16. Twilight of a Woman’s Soul
17. The Oyster Princess
18. Hell’s Hinges
19. The Italian
20. Broken Blossoms
21. Ingeborg Holm
22. Sir Arne’s Treasure
23. Panoramic View of Morecambe Sea Front
24. Blind Husbands
25. Child of the Big City
26. Mary Jane’s Mishap
27. Washerwomen on the River
28. Traffic in Souls
29. L’Enfant de Paris
30. The Mysterious X
31. From the Submerged (Theodore Wharton, 1912). For me, the standout of Treasures 3, but then I wasn't all that keen on Courage of the Commonplace, which seems to have found more favour. This really is a beauty, though - at the moment of climactic redemption, the sun comes out and is suddenly reflected in the river behind the two lovers, a sublime moment of serendipitous cinema magic.
32. La Tare / The Defect (Feuillade, 1911). Another not terribly surprising omission, but I still feel it's the best work by Feuillade that I've seen. I had no idea he could pull off tragedy this well. The only other person to comment on this called it 'schmaltz', though, so perhaps I need to take another look...
33. The Dying Swan
34. Who Pays?: Episode 12, ‘Toil and Tyranny’ (Harry Harvey, 1915). At least one other person voted for it - thank you, comrade. Maybe when the other eleven episodes get a release this will turn out to be one of the neglected masterpieces of the period.
35. Fantomas
36. Suspense
37. Indochina: Namo Village, Panorama Taken from a Rickshaw (Lumière)
38. The Invaders
39. Les Vampires
40. The Cameraman’s Revenge
41. Bud’s Recruit (Vidor, 1918). Really? No Vidor fans turned out for this one? I mean it's not a masterpiece, but it deserved another vote somewhere in there.
42. Gretchen the Greenhorn
43. The Sinking of the Lusitania
44. Blind Justice
45. The Land Beyond the Sunset
46. A Lively Quarter-Day
47. Where Are My Children?
48. From Leadville to Aspen
49. The Last Days of Pompeii (Caserini, 1913). I didn't campaign much for this one, but thought it might get a few more votes. I do think it's a fascinating early attempt at epic film-making; every shot has so much depth and movement, and that movement is so well coordinated, that the film is consistently riveting despite the dull-as-a-paving-slab story that leads up to the climactic disaster. The representation of lava as tumbling, smouldering rocks is transparently cash-strapped, but quite effective I think. And the ending is wonderful. Maybe I should have put this a bit higher on my list...
50. Le Roman d’un Mousse (Perret, 1913). Well, I don't suppose the single solitary point I gave it helped very much.

zedz wrote: 16. One Touch of Nature (Miller, 1914) – I may be a crazy lone voice, but I’ll stand by my claim that this is the greatest film of 1914 (that I’ve seen), and is visually way ahead of some films made ten years later.

I did see this, and even went back for a second viewing after your comments on it. I can't say that I like it as much as you do, but I do agree that it's ahead of its time in certain respects. Several of your other darlings--Thomas Graal's Best Film, Thais, and of course Love and Journalism--were out of reach, but all are in my sights for next time.

Sloper wrote: 32. La Tare / The Defect (Feuillade, 1911). Another not terribly surprising omission, but I still feel it's the best work by Feuillade that I've seen. I had no idea he could pull off tragedy this well. The only other person to comment on this called it 'schmaltz', though, so perhaps I need to take another look...

This is the only one of your darlings that I saw. I liked it quite a bit--the word 'schmaltz' never came to mind--but I couldn't quite find room for it on my list. I'll certainly be seeing your others for next time.

All right, then, here's my complete list.
I'll only comment on those films that didn't even make it into the also-rans, but I still feel like a big sad


1. Sir Arne's Treasure (Stiller, 1918)
2. The Dying Swan (Bauer, 1917)
3. Fantomas (Feuillade, 1913)
4. Blind Husbands (Stroheim, 1919)
5. A Panoramic View of the Morecambe Sea Front (Mitchell & Kenyon, 1901)
6. The Bluebird (Tourneur, 1918)
7. After Death (Bauer, 1915)
8. Homunculus, Pt.4 (Rippert, 1916)
9. Il fuoco (Pastrone, 1916)
10. La voyage dans la lune (Mélies, 1902)
11. Die Austernprinzessin (Lubitsch, 1919)
12. Die Puppe (Lubitsch, 1919)

13. Harakiri (Lang, 1919): I already spoke about it in the main thread; perhaps it was really the abysmal old avi that's still floating around that kept people from seeing and voting for this. But at least the restored version is a visual treat, and the performance by Lil Dagover is easily one of her best early ones. A film you have to let sink in and to quietly marvel at the beautiful sets, the believable story, and that finely titillating exoticism that pervades it.

14. Der Student von Prag (Rye, 1913)
15. The outlaw and his wife (Sjöström, 1918)
16. Broken blossoms (Griffith, 1919)
17. Ich möchte kein Mann sein (Lubitsch, 1918)
18. A child of the big city (Bauer, 1914)
19. Les Vampires (Feuillade, 1915)
20. Birth of a nation (Griffith, 1915)
21. Rapsodia Satanica (Oxilia, 1915)

22. A trip to Mars aka Himmelskibet (Holger-Madsen, 1918): already defended earlier, so I repeat what I wrote then: "a fascinating early Science Fiction vehicle showing a peaceful Martian society from which the visitors from Earth do learn a lot. Very much in the vein of classical utopias, with the Martians indeed being dressed like people from old Greece. Technically and visually very inventive, I find it's a great companion piece to later films like "Aelita" or even "Frau im Mond". The missing link between Mélies' "Voyage a la lune" and these later films in any case."

23. Terje Vigen (Sjöström, 1917)
24. The ? Motorist (Walter Booth for R.W. Paul, 1906)
25. La dixieme symphonie (Gance, 1918)
26. The land beyond the sunset (Shaw, 1912)

27. La bergere d'Ivry (Tourneur, 1913): also already discussed in the main thread, and perhaps the absence of English subs kept some people from seeing this? I still think it's a perfect film, even better than "The Wishing ring" in its effortless depiction of rural life and landscapes. Strangely beautiful and endearing to me.

28. The big swallow (Williamson, 1901)
29. J'accuse (Gance, 1919)

30. The Project of Engineer Pright (Kuleshev, 1918): I think I should have clamoured for this more loudly. It's probably the first film that features (or invents) the Russian montage techniques so prominent in the films of the 20s. I think Kuleshev is one of the great unsung heroes of Soviet film (at least internationally speaking), and the film is an early example of that utopian or forward-looking spirit that you will find later in Vertov's films especially. Quite striking, really.

31. The poor little rich girl (Tourneur, 1917): Doesn't seem to have much love here, Lubitsch for instance finds that the styles of Tourneur and Pickford clash. I can't particularly see this, though I would agree that the film might be a bit melodramatic. However, the extended dream/fantasy sequence is amazing and a nice blueprint for several 'Wizard of Oz' films. However, in this respect I only find the 1938 version superior, and Tourneur, as always, has a pretty individual and inventive take on creating such a fantasy world.

32. Tih Minh (Feuillade, 1918)
33. Die Spinnen (Lang, 1919)
34. Thais (Bragaglia, 1916)
35. The President (Dreyer, 1919)
36. Daydreams (Bauer, 1915)
37. Ingeborg Holm (Sjöström, 1914)

38. Der Andere (Mack, 1913) I suppose this also suffered from it's wide unavailability, but really, Max Mack must be the most important German director before Lubitsch, a man who had an immense influence on the development of the industry, and out of the three films I managed to see from him, this is the most artistic and original, though I would recommend both "Wo ist Coletti?" and "Zweimal gelebt", too. "Der Andere" is a psychological horror film before that genre was invented; one of the most interesting Jekyll&Hyde-versions I can think of, with a very subtle performance by Alfred Bassermann.

39. Cinderella (Kirkwood, 1914) Somehow I have a strange liking for this Mary Pickford vehicle, though it doesn't look too modern, but recaptures that style of fairy-tale characters which was more popular in the pre-10s, but which you can also still see in "The land beyond the sunset". Very charming and entertaining in my view, and Mary is as lovely as always.

40. Regeneration (Walsh, 1915)
41. The dream of a rarebit fiend (Porter,1906)
42. South (Hurley, 1919)
43. Intolerance (Griffith, 1916)
44. The magic sword (Walter Booth for R.W.Paul, 1901)

45. The end of the world aka Verdens Undergang (Blom, 1916): Again, I repeat what I wrote yesterday already: " "The end of the world", a film which depicts the reactions on the news that a comet will hit the earth and cause a huge catastrophe. I found it particularly interesting in the way how its pulpy story foreshadows a lot of Lang (greedy shareholders speculating and manipulating in the face of disaster, for instance), but also picks up on Feuillade occasionally in my view. Thoroughly entertaining in any case."

46. La signora delle camelie (Serena, 1915): Also difficult to see, of course, but if those who liked "Il fuoco", "Thais" or "Rapsodia Satanica" check it out, I'm sure they will find another very beautiful and lyrical diva film they will certainly enjoy.

47. The pride of the clan (Tourneur, 1916). Another Pickford/Tourneur collaboration that I really liked, even though it rather relies on the pseudo-Scottish atmosphere and nice landscape photography than on an all-too-strong script or performance.

48. The King of Paris (Bauer, 1917). Not on anyone's else's list, but Bauer is so popular here that I'll leave it at that. No defense needed, I guess.

49. Civilization (Ince, 1916)
50. La folie du Docteur Tube (Gance, 1915)

reno dakota wrote:43. The Dragon Painter (Worthington, 1919) – Orphan, the last. I remember reading a fair amount of positive comments about this one on the forum around the time of its DVD release, so I thought this one was a shoe-in for most folks. The story is a sort of melodramatically textured fairytale—a bit far-fetched, perhaps, and simple in its characterizations—but the elements Milestone used are in gorgeous condition and the film itself is playful and charming.

While I spent considerable time seeking out just about every unseen film I could for the list, this sat in my kevyip unwatched. Somehow I thought this was a '20s film, and I forgot all about it. I wonder if others did the same, as there was no mention of it in the main thread. I guess I'll watch it tonight and see if it would have made my list.

Here is my list with darlings defended:

1 Life Story of David Lloyd George, The 1918 Elvey, Maurice - The epic that never was, perhaps I overrate a bit due to extratextual concerns (the film's history is wonderfully fascinating), but I think it's an essential film on its own merits, a fascinating epic, with numerous striking scenes.

2 Broken Blossoms 1919 Griffith, D. W.
3 Sinking of the Lusitania, The 1918 McCay, Winsor
4 Land Beyond The Sunset, The 1912 Shaw, Harold M.
5 Sir Arne’s Treasure 1919 Stiller, Mauritz
6 Les Vampires 1915 Feuillade, Louis
7 Suspense 1913 Weber, Lois

8 Morecambe Church Lads' Brigade at Drill 1901 Mitchell & Kenyon - surprised this one didn't get voted for, it brought a tear to my eye. The boy losing his cap and trying to maintain composure, all the while completely falling out of sync with his mates. It's sweet and charming, and the In The Nursery score is impossibly evocative.

9 Cheat, The 1915 DeMille, Cecil B.
10 When the Clouds Roll By 1919 Fleming, Victor
11 Judex 1916 Feuillade, Louis
12 A Visit to Peek Frean & Co.’s Biscuit Works (1906) 1906 Cricks and Martin
13 Birth of a Nation, The 1915 Griffith, D. W.
14 Ingeborg Holm 1913 Sjöström, Victor
15 Country Doctor, The 1909 Griffith, D.W.
16 J'Accuse 1919 Gance, Abel
17 A Day in the Life of a Coalminer (1910); 1910 unknown
18 Sealed Orders 1914 Christensen, Benjamin

19 Narrow Trail, The 1917 Hillyer, Lambert - I love me some William S. Hart, and this one is very good indeed. The story has some very bleak elements as outlaw Hart falls for a dancehall girl (who it is implied is being prostituted out by her father), complications ensue and the lovers escape from the law and the film ends ambiguously. The themes of redemption and restoration are very Hart-ian, but the ambiguous ending moved it a notch above Hell's Hinges.

20 Italian, The 1915 Barker, Reginald S.

21 Le friquet 1913 Tourneur, Maurice - A film that looks about 15 years ahead of it's time, it's so smoothly edited and paced. It's a precursor to all the doomed romance/circus movies of the 20's.

22 Cabiria 1914 Pastrone, Giovanni

23 Rounders, The 1914 Chaplin, Charles - It's Chaplin and Arbuckle playng drunks, ad-libbing and one-upping each other for 10 minutes, there is some astonishing work in this one. Great stuff, it was my way of getting both Chaplin and
Arbuckle in with one spot.

24 Automatic Moving Company (1910) 1910 Cohl, Emile - Wonderful stop-motion film, perfectly executed. One of my regrets about the project was not being able to get the Cohl boxset from Gaumont.

25 Parkgate Iron and Steel Co. Rotherham (1901) 1901 Mitchell & Kenyon - Rough and grimy, the score again is so perfectly suited that the film takes on a palpable sense of danger. From the man giving an obscene gesture to the teems of rough looking working men and the random and vicious fistfight that breaks out, this is the dark side of life.

26 The Big Swallow (1901?), 1901 Williamson, James
27 Dickson Experimental Sound Film, The 1894 Dickson, William K.

28 Alice Guy tourne une phonoscène Guy, Alice - The first making-of film, it has a ghostly and haunting feel, as if we are intruding upon the film.

29 Spiders, The 1919 Lang, Fritz
30 Outlaw and His Wife, The 1917 Sjöström, Victor

31 How They Rob Men in Chicago (1900), 1900 McCutcheon, Wallace - wonderfully economical film from the Treasures III set. 30 seconds to do a set-up, action, and punchline, and it manages to be a savagely satirical film as well.

32 The Courage of the Commonplace (1913), 1913 Sturgeon, Rollin S.
33 Hell’s Hinges 1916 Hart, William S.
34 Whispering Chorus, The 1918 DeMille, Cecil B.
35 Civilization 1916 Ince, Thomas
36 From Leadville to Aspen: A Hold-Up in the Rockies 1906 Marion, Francis J.

37 Bangville Police 1913 Lehrman, Henry - the intro of the Keystone Kops (not much of a fan), but this one works so well due to the parodic elements. The film parodies D.W. Griffith films like The Girl and Her Trust. Mabel Normand does her best Lillian Gish/Blanche Sweet as the poor girl trapped in a room as intruders try to break in. It's marvellous because she plays it straight, the terror on her face is real. The punchline of course is that the intruders are her gun-wielding father and the Bangville Police, having responded to Normand's phone call.

38 The ? Motorist (1906); 1906 Paul, R.W.
39 Intolerance 1916 Griffith, D. W.
40 Where Are My Children? 1916 Weber, Lois

41 Life and Passion of Jesus Christ, The 1903 Zecca, Ferdinand - some great work in this one, love the tracking shot when Christ raises Jairus' daughter. I preferred it to the Alice Guy version, although I wasn't really doing a scene by scene comparison.

42 Fire! (1901) 1901 Williamson, James - I preferred it to the better known Porter film, but they are both very good.

43 Le Dixieme Symphonie 1918 Gance, Abel - It's on here primarily for the audacity of the transfiguration scene, I mean Gance has his lead character so overwrought with strife that he composes and performs a piece that transforms him in Beethoven. Incredible. But the rest of the film is fascinating as a sort of proto-noirish kind of text. 30 years later and the
villain is Dan Duryea.

44 Rescued by Rover (1905), 1905 Hepworth, Cecil - A fun and well crafted 1905 film, that reveals Hepworth's strong editing skills, and some nice shot composition. I particularly love the 2 shots of Rover running along a curved street, moving from background to foreground in the first, and in foreground to background in the second. It's a great use of the frame to provide both depth and width.
45 Life of an American Fireman 1903 Porter, Edwin S.
46 Child of the Big City 1914 Bauer, Evgeni

47 Female of the Species, The 1912 Griffith, D. W. - a taciturn Mary Pickford is all you need to know about this one. Aside from the silliness of the ending, this is a strong, bleak and unusual 2-reeler, that makes great use of the desert settings and again features Mary Pickford in her most unusual role un-Pickford like role I would think.

48 Natural Born Gambler, A 1916 unknown - Not a great 2-reeler, and lots of dead spots, but the final 3 minutes of Bert Williams pantomiming a poker game in prison are astonishing.

49 Le figure de cire 1913 Tourneur, Maurice
50 Passer-by, The 1912 Apfel, Oscar C.

reno dakota wrote:18. Towards the Light (Holger-Madsen, 1919) – My highest ranking orphan and my favorite of the four films on the DFI Asta Nielsen disc (The Abyss, which did make the list, is another great one). Here, Nielsen plays a self-centered countess who is courted by two men—an adventurous baron and a lonely professor’s nephew whose ever-present and supportive cousin can’t seem to get him to realize that she’s in love with him. Tragedy strikes early, then misfortune comes knocking, leaving the poor countess guilt-ridden, heartbroken, and desperate to atone for her past behavior. All of this leads her to a curious and transformative relationship with the town parson. There is a spiritual side to all of this, which does occasionally come across as a bit heavy-handed, but the film’s abundant charms provide ample distraction from these “message” passages. For me, one of the film’s delights is that Holger-Madsen’s mise-en-scène (particularly in his interiors) is quite similar to Bauer’s—there are angled camera-shots, mirrors and important details along the edges of the frame, and characters eavesdropping or lurking around corners. If you had Bauer, Christensen and Dreyer on your list, this film is more of what you’re looking for.

Yes, it's a very good film indeed, and I also agree with your Christensen and Dreyer comparison in terms of 'feeling' and also with the one with Bauer, though more in terms of technique than of effect. I guess the 'message'-bits were a bit off-putting to me, though not in the same way as in Weber's "Hypocrites". So, while I didn't have "Towards the light" on my list, it's certainly something I should re-visit. From the same disc, "Afgrunden" almost made my list, but then I thought that central dance scene and the beautiful cityscapes at the beginning were not enough for me to fully make up for a certain wooden character in the direction in general. Perhaps I should have been more indulgent, after all it was made in 1910.

reno dakota wrote:33. Different from the Others (Oswald, 1919) – Orphan #2. Narratively, this one is a bit on the dry side, but I was impressed by how daring a project this was given the time-period, and I was moved by Conrad Veidt’s performance.

I'm ashamed to say that I completely forgot about this film. A similar case to "Blind Husbands" (which I didn't forget) perhaps: it feels much too modern thematically to immediately come to your mind as a pre-20s film. Conny Veidt indeed is great in this one, and I'm still sad that it only survives in an incomplete state.

reno dakota wrote:36. A Life for a Life (Bauer, 1916) – Orphan #3. So many Bauer films made the final list, but I was surprised that no one else went for this tragedy of two half-sisters in love with the same man. All the great Bauer touches are there, included the devastating final shot.

And this one is still on my kevyip. I simply didn't manage to watch all the Bauers I wanted for this project. Perhaps in retrospect the voting deadline should have been extended, especially if I look at how long a time we now have for the 20s list. And I think I could immediately write down at least my Top 20 for that one, unlike with the pre-20s list. Here's hoping you all have a good many surprises in store for the 20s list, too, so that I might have to reconsider.