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jguitar wrote:I'm not so sure that the songs (or communal singing itself) carry the sort of political baggage that you suggest they might. I think that for Japanese audiences the songs are nostalgic and simply provide a convenient shorthand for the bonding that happens at school. Plus, we see either group singing or people gathered in groups requesting a song from someone in countless Japanese films. I'm not sure that the communal/individualism duality plays out in quite the same way in Japan that it does here.

I have not doubt this is the case, and if I seem to be arguing otherwise, my mistake! (I can see how my last post may have leaned that way...) As I've said, I was responding to an old post that suggested that the songs in the film were a way of marshaling conformity, and in the process of doing that, I attempted to account for why an American might suspect such a thing. But I tend to agree with you.

I still have friends from kindergarten -- maybe that's why these old Japanese films resonate with me. ;-}

The songs are my favorite aspect of 24 Eyes.

Thanks for the clarification, gcgiles. Looking back, I can see that I didn't read through the thread carefully enough, so I apologize for attributing views to you mistakenly! It is an interesting topic, though; the singing in Twenty-four Eyes is one of the most memorable parts of the film. As I suggested before, one of the most moving things for me in raising a daughter in two cultures (the US and Japan) has been learning Japanese children's songs and seeing the place they have there (and for expats here in the US). The singing parts in that film are, in fact, the very first film clips I ever showed my daughter,when she was two. She'll be in school for part of the year next year in Japan, so I'll get to see this a bit more up close.

This is getting off topic a bit, but I wonder what favorite singing moments are for people in Japanese film (or in film in general)? For me, it's hard to beat Ryu Chishu's song in Record of a Tenement Gentleman. I also really like the song they sing over sukiyaki at the end of Gosho's An Inn in Osaka.

No need to apologize, jguitar! Regarding singing moments in Japanese cinema, yes, a little off-topic, but I will play along and briefly mention the use of the "Warship March" in Ozu's Autumn Afternoon. I enjoy the way its martial ferocity has been softened by the naval veterans into a song evoking drunken fondness, astonishment at the changes time has wrought, and some light derision. Bordwell reminds me in his Ozu book that this song was also playing in the pachinko parlor in Flavor of Green Tea. That one song, dating from the 1930s, seems to have a very complicated resonance in Japanese culture reaching into the 1960s. Anyhow, I'll leave it at that, since this would more appropriately be in a different thread...

Just wanted to give a big thanks to this thread which is a sterling example of this forum at its best. It's really informed me on how to grapple with this complicated if mediocre film.

Out of curiosity, when introducing the kids why does the teacher say the nickname of the loud kid indicates he is a bully?

Can you remember the nickname?

Something like Natsu. It definitely began with an N.

Nikuta... But I can't figure out the reference. Nikutai seems to mean physical or bodily.

Actually I don't find 24 Eyes mediocre at all -- but I do dislike the last (pretty gratuitous) blow of fate inflicted on the teacher.

In context that makes sense as he was being a boisterous nuisance in that scene. Thank you very much.

knives wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 6:19 pm
Out of curiosity, when introducing the kids why does the teacher say the nickname of the loud kid indicates he is a bully?

I did some online research and managed to find a kanji representation of the nickname: 憎太. So the first kanji in Nita (仁太) has been substituted with 憎 (niku), which means 'hate'.

Thanks for the detailed response. I really wish Crit would put footnote subtitles on their discs like Animego used to.

I notice that the replaced kanji (仁) means the opposite thing (i.e. benevolence, consideration, compassion, humanity, charity). That adds some logic to it.

NLK -- Great research job!

Not too fond of onscreen footnotes -- but maybe a little guide on paper or on disc for these important details that are too complicated for subtitle rendering. I notice lots of manga translations these days seem to devote a page or so to this task.

I'm fine with them being optional which is what Animeigo did.

I don't have the Criterion version of this -- but I would hope it provides an in-depth discussion of the music used in this film, which is -- along with the scenery -- one of my favorite aspects of the film.

By the way, the schoolhouse and the village created on Shodoshima for this film has been preserved as a museum -- Twenty-four Eyes Movie Village. If one wants to see a bit of modern-day Shodoshima (which still looks rather old-fashioned), there's a charming (and lovely looking) animated show that shows off a lot of genuine local scenery, called "Teasing-Master Takagi-san" -- about first-year middle school students.

https://blog.goo.ne.jp/sketchmoneybox/m/200809
The link is to the page with the Nikuta kanji. Someone turned the registration scene early in the film into a cartoon with Italian dialogue (starting at the bottom of the page). It's rather well done I think.