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Tommaso wrote:Sounds good, as expected. It would be interesting to see a comparison of the FsF "Shadows" and the Kino

If I get the chance later today, I'll send Gary matching grabs from the FsF.

Just one man's opinion, but I don't think that FsF disc is all that desireable. The colors are off, shows substantial haloing around hi contrast edges (look at the bleeding pomegranites in the caps above) whereas the Kino is clean. The probelm with the kino is windowboxing, and a softness representative of it's digital vintgage. But its clean, accurate, and imho the best disc out there of this cut of the film, not even close.

Soviet color stock-- even the better stuff as seen on Tarkovsky, Klimov, Bondarchuk-- was utterly dead and nearly cadaverous. Look at Come And See, look at Solaris, Mirror, and these are films using stock light years more responsive than what Paradjanov was using here. It's the shittiest color stock I've seen. I really think anyone looking for a glorious Arabian Nights or Funny Face type technicolor transfer typical of today;s dvd age are just not being fair to what the materials represent on celluloid. Even the strenuously Kline-boosted CC SOlaris shows that muted, halting color temp.

Gary's "eyesore" term is not surprising and next to meaningless in this terrain... and refers to the subs (which aren't that bad... I mean be fair to your readers and leave room for genuine disasters: VAMPYR by David SHepard has "abominable" subs, they take up half the screen, cover the film image in a gigantic font) not the whole package, right?

All in all I'm releieved. A set decent enough to spring for, even duping POmegranites.

Just another man's opinion, but I'd say the colours are off on both releases in different ways, and if you look closely, similar haloing is also to be found on the pomegranates on the Kino. It's slightly less apparent, first because the image is smaller, and also because the more muted tone of the Kino. The only one that doesn't have it is the Japanese disc, unsurprisingly.
Though I agree with everything you said about Russian film material: if the colours on the Kino "Pomegranates" were due to the used stock, why then is the Japanese print so much superior? Perhaps it's incorrect and heavily manipulated , too, I don't know, but compared to both Kino and FsF it simply feels 'right' to me.
The subs are perhaps personal taste, and although they are not as horrible as the Shepard "Vampyr" (but which print of any other film even comes close to that in terms of the abomination factor?), I find them really intrusive and disturbing, bigger (not in font size, but in extension from left to right) than anything I ever even saw on subbed TV broadcasts. And yellow on top of it...

So if you're happy with the Kino, fine. But I'm glad to have had it exchanged for the FsF. Not only, but not last because of the subs.

Tommaso wrote:Though I agree with everything you said about Russian film material: if the colours on the Kino "Pomegranates" were due to the used stock, why then is the Japanese print so much superior? Perhaps it's incorrect and heavily manipulated , too, I don't know, but compared to both Kino and FsF it simply feels 'right' to me.

The shorter Soviet cut has always looked better than the longer cut - either because it's closer in generational terms to the original camera negative or because it's simply been better preserved.

I'd have to check, but from memory the British Connoisseur VHS (and 1990s Channel 4 broadcast) was closer to the Japanese colours than either the Kino or FsF discs - but they were both of the Soviet cut as well.

Firstly, without you folks making able contributions on this thread, I would have been totally lost and might never have considered buying this. Secondly, Beev's cavils aside I am so sold on this set. I never realized how good SP was. I can see how Fellini would like him. I'm really looking forward to getting this.

Jean-Luc Garbo wrote:Firstly, without you folks making able contributions on this thread, I would have been totally lost and might never have considered buying this. Secondly, Beev's cavils aside I am so sold on this set. I never realized how good SP was. I can see how Fellini would like him. I'm really looking forward to getting this.

If you're in NTSC-land, there's absolutely no reason not to buy the Kino set. And it's VERY easy to see why Fellini would like Paradjanov!

MichaelB wrote:And it's VERY easy to see why Fellini would like Paradjanov!

Don't tempt me folks... Hitherto I absolutely didn't like Fellini,apart from "La Strada", but the last time I watched anything by him must be ten years ago... And now you tell me that there must be a similarity to Paradjanov, whom I adore (and always have). Okay: do you mean there's a similarity in the images or the artificiality, or something more?

I'd say there's a closer similarity between Paradjanov and Pasolini. Paradjanov even said in several interviews that Pasolini was his favorite filmmaker.

MichaelB wrote:

Tommaso wrote:Though I agree with everything you said about Russian film material: if the colours on the Kino "Pomegranates" were due to the used stock, why then is the Japanese print so much superior? Perhaps it's incorrect and heavily manipulated , too, I don't know, but compared to both Kino and FsF it simply feels 'right' to me.

The shorter Soviet cut has always looked better than the longer cut - either because it's closer in generational terms to the original camera negative or because it's simply been better preserved.

I'd have to check, but from memory the British Connoisseur VHS (and 1990s Channel 4 broadcast) was closer to the Japanese colours than either the Kino or FsF discs - but they were both of the Soviet cut as well.

I'll try to dig out my old Connoisseur VHS for comparison.

I've seen both cuts on celluloid, and the 35mm Yutkevich edit looks way better than the original cut, and pretty nice, colour-wise. Paradjanov's use of colour in the film is vivid in a good print, if not as spectacular and psychedelic as in a good print of Shadows. The Japanese grabs above are a good representation of the 35, but neither the Kino nor the FSF are very close, colour-wise to the 16mm I've seen of the original cut, which was basically a muddier, more washed-out version of the 35 (but still striking, colour-wise). Of the two, however, Kino comes closer.

The obvious route for presenting this great film would be to issue the superior-in-quality Yutkevich edit alongside the best-available transfer of Paradzhanov's cut (though a new transfer of a decent print seems desirable). It's not a long film, and both could easily fit on a single disc, so it's unfortunate that nobody's managed to pull it together yet. Maybe a British release will go that extra mile?

MichaelB wrote:I'd have to check, but from memory the British Connoisseur VHS (and 1990s Channel 4 broadcast) was closer to the Japanese colours than either the Kino or FsF discs - but they were both of the Soviet cut as well.

I can save you the trouble as I re-watched my Connoisseur VHS (Yutkevich cut) over the weekend, and yes, it is closer to the Japanese DVD than the Kino. Can't say how it compares to the FsF disc as I don't have that one but I do share HerrSchreck's views on the Kino v FsF w.r.t. the screengrabs. If I ever upgrade Pomegranates it'll be for the Japanese DVD as I only ever got the Kino one for the "director's cut" knowing at the time it would not look as good.

Michael, do you know why the BFI have never released Shadows/Sayat/Suram on DVD given that they had them out on VHS through the Connoisseur label. Connoisseur was the Criterion of the VHS world for me back in the 90s and I still have a fondness for the few remaining Connoisseur tapes I've kept such as the Parajanov tapes and Shepitko's The Ascent (no DVD release anywhere AFAIK).

ivuernis wrote:Michael, do you know why the BFI have never released Shadows/Sayat/Suram on DVD given that they had them out on VHS through the Connoisseur label.

Because the VHS distribution rights would have expired years ago, putting the BFI at no greater advantage than any other distributor when it comes to releasing them on DVD.

I can't speak for Paradjanov, but I know from gruelling personal experience that clearing the DVD rights to the Švankmajer titles took over three years - in fact, the last contract was signed only about six weeks before the DVDs were released! And this was despite the fact that the BFI had been distributing Švankmajer's work in 35mm, 16mm and VHS since the mid-1980s.

The only advantage of this was that it gave me an alternative source of materials if I felt the rightsholder-supplied Digibetas weren't up to scratch - which is why the BFI edition is the only one to feature a 35mm-sourced anamorphic transfer of his only 2.35:1 film. But aside from that, any other company could have taken on the job, and it would have cost them just as much in time, effort and money.

MichaelB wrote:Because the VHS distribution rights would have expired years ago, putting the BFI at no greater advantage than any other distributor when it comes to releasing them on DVD.

Thanks, I'm not too knowledgeable about these issues distributors face in getting titles out there. The main reason for asking was that Connoisseur did a terrific job with their two Paradjanov tapes and they still hold up quite well so I guess I was hoping if anybody was going to do Paradjanov justice on DVD it would be the BFI. That said the recent FsF discs and the new improved Kino set are much welcomed.

Well, finances were the biggest reason for me not to buy it. Thanks to the discussion here, however, I decided to buy it now instead of later.
I never knew that Paradjanov was a Pasolini fan. Does anyone know what his favorite film was?

Jean-Luc Garbo wrote:Well, finances were the biggest reason for me not to buy it. Thanks to the discussion here, however, I decided to buy it now instead of later.
I never knew that Paradjanov was a Pasolini fan. Does anyone know what his favorite film was?

As far as I know, his favorites were THE GOSPEL ACC. TO MATTHEW, MEDEA, and OEDIPUS REX. I doubt he ever had the opportunity to see something like PIGSTY or SALO. Soviet filmmakers had access to foreign films that weren't shown to the general Soviet public, but there were limits...

Please let us all know how you respond to the Paradjanov films after you've had the opportunity to see them! You should start with SHADOWS OF FORGOTTEN ANCESTORS, since it was his first international success.

His most challenging film by far is THE COLOR OF POMEGRANATES. If you send me a private msg with your email address, I can send you some articles I've published on it that might help as you view it, though it can be appreciated purely as a sensual experience.

But the most detailed analysis of THE COLOR OF POMEGRANATES to date is the French-language book Sayat Nova de Serguei Paradjanov : La face et le profil (2007), by the noted filmmaker and scholar Erik Bullot. I strongly recommend this book if you can read French.

Kino Shadows in hand. The colors are absolutely beautiful (watched on a JVC tube where the interlacing wasn't a prob, esecially w upscale).

One of the most ravishing films ever made in a genuinely (especially for RusCiCo) eye-popping transfer.

The extras are wonderful, particularly Islands, detailing the friendship and connection between Paradjanov & Tarkovsky. I knew they were friends but didn't know how close they really were. (A shame it's a very analoguey looking rus tv transfer for this doc).

Yes, I think I'm probably going to get this - though I suspect I'll be better off with the Ruscico PAL.

The Films Sans Frontières transfer is very good, but the colours were more muted than I recall, and there's every possibility that the Ruscico/Kino improves on it.

I have just noticed that "Surami Fortress" is also now out in the Netherlands, in what looks like another Ruscico port. Look here.

What intrigues me is that they give two language options as well, Georgian and the Russian voice-over, but without any note about four minutes of the Georgian track being destroyed. Though I somewhat doubt that they took the extra effort to restore the original soundtrack, it would be great to know for sure, especially because this is a PAL disc and should look superior.

The same label seems to have licensed a lot of Ruscico discs. On the bottom of the page is a link to their version of Shengelaya's "Veriskij quarter", for instance.

jbeall wrote:Dave Kehr review.

Ooops. Sorry. Now I realize why my post was deleted....I never pay attention to the author of those NY Times DVD reviews.

Tribe

Tommaso wrote:I have just noticed that "Surami Fortress" is also now out in the Netherlands, in what looks like another Ruscico port. Look here.

What intrigues me is that they give two language options as well, Georgian and the Russian voice-over, but without any note about four minutes of the Georgian track being destroyed. Though I somewhat doubt that they took the extra effort to restore the original soundtrack, it would be great to know for sure, especially because this is a PAL disc and should look superior.

The same label seems to have licensed a lot of Ruscico discs. On the bottom of the page is a link to their version of Shengelaya's "Veriskij quarter", for instance.

These folks also have Tengiz Abuladze and Rezo Chkheidze's MAGDANA'S DAPPLE-GRAY [DONKEY] and Niko Sanishvili's CHERMEN available for pre-order. These are also Ruscico titles, which gives me hope that Ruscico will eventually get around to releasing Giorgi Shengelaia's PIROSMANI and and Irakli Kvirikadze's THE SWIMMER.

I should point out that "Veriskii" is a Russified version of the film's title and isn't really correct. It's the Veri district in Tbilisi; "Veriskii" is a Russian adjectival form. The original title in Georgian is "Veris ubnis melodiebi." A better way to render it is "Melodies of the Veri Quarter" (or "Veri District").

jsteffe wrote: I should point out that "Veriskii" is a Russified version of the film's title and isn't really correct. It's the Veri district in Tbilisi; "Veriskii" is a Russian adjectival form. The original title in Georgian is "Veris ubnis melodiebi." A better way to render it is "Melodies of the Veri Quarter" (or "Veri District").

Actually it's Vera, not Veri. So, though, it's Veris ubani in Georgian, it should translated as Vera District

videozor wrote:

jsteffe wrote: I should point out that "Veriskii" is a Russified version of the film's title and isn't really correct. It's the Veri district in Tbilisi; "Veriskii" is a Russian adjectival form. The original title in Georgian is "Veris ubnis melodiebi." A better way to render it is "Melodies of the Veri Quarter" (or "Veri District").

Actually it's Vera, not Veri. So, though, it's Veris ubani in Georgian, it should translated as Vera District

Thanks for the correction! Yes, of course, you're right. "Veris" is the genitive case of "Vera." For those of you who don't speak Georgian, the default nominative case ending is "i," but there are many exceptions, such as the abstract nouns ending in -eba and -oba, and common nouns such as "ia," or "violet."

So "Melodies of the Vera District" it is!

BTW: The Centre Pompidou exhibition catalog "Le Cinema Georgien" makes the same error and calls it "Veri" instead of "Vera." That's what I had consulted earlier.

Jesus.

Shreck wasn't just shitting around. Pomegranates is ravishingly beautiful and surreal! My first experience with Paradjanov and...wow, what a discovery for me.

No wonder this movie bugged the Soviets...how can you tolerate a free thinker who could come up with something like this.

Is it anything of a stretch to see any Paradjanov influence on Peter Greenaway? All through Pomegranates it struck me, tableux scene after scene, that Greenawya stages his scenes like this (or used to).

I'm blown away by this.

Tribe

Tribe wrote:Shreck wasn't just shitting around. Pomegranates is ravishingly beautiful and surreal! My first experience with Paradjanov and...wow, what a discovery for me.

No wonder this movie bugged the Soviets...how can you tolerate a free thinker who could come up with something like this.

Is it anything of a stretch to see any Paradjanov influence on Peter Greenaway? All through Pomegranates it struck me, tableux scene after scene, that Greenawya stages his scenes like this (or used to).

I'm blown away by this.

Welcome to the inner circle of Paradjanov admirers! I have seen this film I don't know how many times and I've never even remotely gotten tired of it. Now you have to make a point of seeing SHADOWS OF FORGOTTEN ANCESTORS--it will blow you away, too. Many people like that one even better, though I'm still partial to POMEGRANATES.

I don't doubt that Peter Greenaway was familiar with Paradjanov and POMEGRANATES in particular, since a new print of the Yutkevich cut was distributed in the UK in the early Eighties. Derek Jarman also makes some direct allusions to it in WAR REQUIEM.

I've never seen a film whose depth of feeling is so nakedly extremely heartbroken ("I am the man whose life and soul are torture" being the opener... phew, or "In this (forgotten positive adjective) and healthy world, my lot has been nothing but suffering,") yet so beautifully couched in visual metaphor always offering the transitory hopes and pleasures of being alive-- the disposition of the True Artist. Troubled by an internal sense of misery and suffering, yet delivered hope and purpose by the sublime combinations offered by life in the world.

Only scratching the surface of this sublime film, but as a sort of skeletal framework upon which the axis of the film moves, it's just incredibly beautiful, unique, extreme, and moving. He really did duplicate the inner vs outer world & experience of the artist (Nova, Paradjanov), which corresponds to the "mission statement" that opens the film.