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zedz, thanks for taking the time and care to act the curator of this project, and making it a lot of fun for everyone to participate in. Here is sending a note in advance, hoping that you will stick with us through another decade

And, sorry to have slacked off in the discussion thread lately. As the days got longer and longer, and busier and busier, I found it simply not possible to keep up with the aggressive chronological viewing schedule. From 1950-1954, I will have a strong and varied spectrum of films to chose my favorites from. The rest of the decade will be a few handfuls of the acknowledged "masterpieces," as far as I am concerned.

Now, the really great challenge will be whether to stick to the personal project of chronological viewing, or, to skip ahead to 1960 once we hit July...?

This is a really tough list for me. I can only imagine how the 60s list is going to compare in difficulty.

You've still got a few days to go.

The list is still canonical, but there have been some interesting shifts after the latest batch of votes have come in, with a strong emphasis on Japanese films - and not just in Michael K's list. If he were the spitting kind, Naruse would now be within spitting distance of the top ten, something I would never have anticipated.

Eleven lists have been received, 250 films nominated, 121 more than once. Number one remains the same, well ahead of number two (which also remains the same), but everything else is up for grabs. One director is represented twice in the top ten, another is represented three times.

The most interesting inclusion in the initial top ten (Invasion of the Body Snatchers) has fallen precipitously, but every other title has maintained a strong level of support.

The five most popular directors in terms of total votes received (though all are subject to considerable degrees of vote splitting) are Ozu, Hitchcock, Mizoguchi, Kurosawa and Naruse. Tailing them, and less hampered by vote-splitting, is Bresson.

zedz wrote:The five most popular directors in terms of total votes received (though all are subject to considerable degrees of vote splitting) are Ozu, Hitchcock, Mizoguchi, Kurosawa and Naruse. Tailing them, and less hampered by vote-splitting, is Bresson.

Ha, figures. Ozu, Hitchcock and Mizoguchi are the most-represented on my list (4 each). Wish I'd been able to see more Naruse, Late Chrysanthemums is thus far the only '50s Naruse I've seen and it just missed my top 50.

What I'm most interested in is what will be the top debut in this list. Of the three previous lists that have gotten a second round, it has been Menilmontant (#24 on the silents polls), Humanity and Paper Balloons (#27 of the '30s) and A Canterbury Tale (#24 of the '40s). Each one had a major DVD release in the preceding year, so what major 1950s DVD debuts will produce a newcomer to the 1950s list mkII? I'm thinking something from the MoC Naruse box or else one of the two recently Criterionized Ichikawas. Maybe something from Late Ozu (Tokyo Twilight)? Either way, my money is on the Japanese.

mikeohhh wrote: What I'm most interested in is what will be the top debut in this list. Of the three previous lists that have gotten a second round, it has been Menilmontant (#24 on the silents polls), Humanity and Paper Balloons (#27 of the '30s) and A Canterbury Tale (#24 of the '40s). Each one had a major DVD release in the preceding year, so what major 1950s DVD debuts will produce a newcomer to the 1950s list mkII? I'm thinking something from the MoC Naruse box or else one of the two recently Criterionized Ichikawas. Maybe something from Late Ozu (Tokyo Twilight)? Either way, my money is on the Japanese.

I haven't bothered to double check, but your money is probably safe. The Japanese presence very clearly reflects recent availability, and I'm curious to see how closely the final ranking of Ozu films reflects R1 availability. What may be even more interesting is seeing which films and directors have suffered a significant descrease in support to make way for the new titles. There are already a few likely contenders.

Plus this is an opportunity to remind you all: one more day to go. It would take some phenomenal reversals to topple the current number 1 (which may be the clearest winner on any list to date), but the top twenty or so films are all within striking distance of one another.

The good news is that an avalanche of last minute submissions makes it look like this will be the biggest catchment of the Lists Project to date.

The bad news is that it will take some time to process them all, so we may not have a result for another day or two. Watch this space.

The 1950s List (number represents total votes):

1. Tokyo Story (Ozu) 907
2. Vertigo (Hitchcock) 726
3. Rear Window (Hitchcock) 646
4. Seven Samurai (Kurosawa) 625
5. Singin' in the Rain (Donen / Kelly) 612
6. Touch of Evil (Welles) 584
7. A Man Escaped (Bresson) 566
8. Early Summer (Ozu) 548
9. Ordet (Dreyer) 526
10. Sansho the Bailiff (Mizoguchi) 521
11. Night of the Hunter (Laughton) 512
12. Ugetsu (Mizoguchi) 504
13. The Searchers (Ford) 494
14. North by Northwest (Hitchcock) 465
15. Diary of a Country Priest (Bresson) 442
16. Hiroshima, mon amour (Resnais) 416
17. The 400 Blows (Truffaut) 398
18. Rashomon (Kurosawa) 387
19. Pickpocket (Bresson) 362
20. Wild Strawberries (Bergman) 359
21. All that Heaven Allows (Sirk) 352
22. Sunset Boulevard (Wilder) 320
23. Paths of Glory (Kubrick) 315
24. Madame de. . . (Ophuls) 313
25. The Band Wagon (Minnelli) 308
26= The Life of O-Haru (Mizoguchi) 307
26= Rio Bravo (Hawks) 307
28. Sound of the Mountain (Naruse) 299
29. Mon Oncle (Tati) 293
30. Los Olvidados (Bunuel) 292
31. Strangers on a Train (Hitchcock) 291
32. The Seventh Seal (Bergman) 283
33. Ikiru (Kurosawa) 274
34. Some Like It Hot (Wilder) 264
35. In a Lonely Place (Ray) 252
36. Orphee (Cocteau) 247
37. The Big Heat (Lang) 245
38= M. Hulot's Holiday (Tati) 244
38= Umberto D (De Sica) 244
40. Pickup on South Street (Fuller) 237
41. Shadows (Cassavetes) 235
42. Street of Shame (Mizoguchi) 233
43. La Strada (Fellini) 232
44= Night and Fog (Resnais) 231
44= Nights of Cabiria (Fellini) 231
46. Gun Crazy (Lewis) 218
47. Othello (Welles) 209
48. Kiss Me Deadly (Aldrich) 208
49. Pather Panchali (Ray) 205
50. Mr. Arkadin (Welles) 200
51= Bob le flambeur (Melville) 196
51= The Killing (Kubrick) 196
53. Tokyo Twilight (Ozu) 195
54= 12 Angry Men (Lumet) 194
54= Repast (Naruse) 194
56. All About Eve (Mankiewicz) 186
57. Viaggio in Italia (Rossellini) 185
58. Anatahan (Sternberg) 180
59. Casque d'Or (Becker) 178
60. Ace in the Hole (Wilder) 176
61. Good Morning (Ozu) 173
62. Throne of Blood (Kurosawa) 171
63= Eaux d'Artifice (Anger) 163
63= Le Plaisir (Ophuls) 163
65. Imitation of Life (Sirk) 161
66. Rififi (Dassin) 160
67= Man of the West (Mann) 157
67= Touchez pas au grisbi (Becker) 157
69= Fires on the Plain (Ichikawa) 156
69= Invasion of the Body Snatchers (Siegel) 156
71. Johnny Guitar (Ray) 153
72. The River (Renoir) 152
73. The Wages of Fear (Clouzot) 149
74. Les Diaboliques (Clouzot) 147
75. The Sweet Smell of Success (Mackendrick) 146
76= TheCriminal Life of Archibaldo de la Cruz (Bunuel) 145
76= Floating Weeds (Ozu) 145
78. The Tiger of Eschnapur / The Indian Tomb (Lang) 141
79. Flowing (Naruse) 135
80. The White Sheik (Fellini) 134
81= The Flavour of Green Tea over Rice (Ozu) 132
81= Smiles of a Summer Night (Bergman) 132
83. Early Spring (Ozu) 131
84= On the Waterfront (Kazan) 129
84= Winchester 73 (Mann) 129
86. Forbidden Games (Clement) 126
87. Les Enfants terribles (Melville) 125
88. The Cranes Are Flying (Kalatozov) 120
89. The Burmese Harp (Ichikawa) 117
90= The Lusty Men (Ray) 114
90= The Naked Spur (Mann) 114
92= The Flowers of St Francis (Rossellini) 112
92= Late Chrysanthemums (Naruse) 112
92= The Night of the Demon (Tourneur) 112
95. The Music Room (Ray) 110
96. The Lavender Hill Mob (Crichton) 107
97. Night and the City (Dassin) 106
98. A Star Is Born (Cukor) 103
99= A Face in the Crowd (Kazan) 102
99= Kanal (Wajda) 102

27 lists were submitted; 353 films were nominated; 201 films attracted more than one vote are were thus eligible for the final list. I'll post the 101 other films that got two votes or more in a subsequent thread.

Tokyo Story was always ahead by a considerable margin, and appeared on all but two lists (you know who you are). Vertigo had a rather late run. Seven Samurai was the solid number two until the last-minute flurry of votes (more than ten lists) came in.

More statistics and observations to come.

The Also Rans.

All of these films appeared on more than one list, but failed to make the top 100. They're in order of popularity, the top film attracting 101 points; the bottom one 9.

The Crucified Lovers - Mizoguchi
The Quiet Man - Ford
Equinox Flower - Ozu
The Hitchhiker - Lupino
The Incredible Shrinking Man - Arnold
The World of Apu - Ray
A Movie - Conner
The Asphalt Jungle - Huston
Floating Clouds - Naruse
Stromboli - Rossellini
The Lower Depths - Kurosawa
I Vitelloni - Fellini
Sawdust & Tinsel - Bergman
The Idiot - Kurosawa
The Wrong Man - Hitchcock
The End - Maclaine
Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter? - Tashlin
Un Chant d'amour - Genet
Summer with Monika - Bergman
There's Always Tomorrow - Sirk
Bonjour Tristesse - Preminger
The Tarnished Angels - Sirk
The Bad and the Beautiful - Minnelli
Duck Amuck - Jones
The Human Condition I - Kobayashi
Senso - Visconti
White Nights - Visconti
Some Came Running - Minnelli
A Streetcar Named Desire - Kazan
Wagonmaster - Ford
The Hidden Fortress - Kurosawa
Funny Face - Donen
Bad Day at Black Rock - Sturges
Bridge on the River Kwai - Lean
Lola Montes - Ophuls
Beat the Devil - Huston
Bigger Than Life - Ray
Harvey - Koster
High Noon - Zinnemann
Forty Guns - Fuller
Written on the Wind - Sirk
Aparajito - Ray
Ballad of a Soldier - Chukhrai
The Narrow Margin - Fleischer
Shane - Stevens
Ashes and Diamonds - Wajda
Europa 51 - Rossellini
La Ronde - Ophuls
Where Chimneys Are Seen - Gosho
Inauguration of the Pleasure Dome - Anger
Nazarin - Bunuel
Summer Stock - Walters
El - Bunuel
A Generation - Wajda
Men in War - Mann
Park Row - Fuller
The Big Combo - Lewis
Schewater - Kubelka
Cronaca di un Amore - Antonioni
Elevator to the Gallows - Malle
The Steel Helmet - Fuller
To Catch a Thief - Hitchcock
Bloody Spear on Mount Fuji - Uchida
Twenty-four Eyes - Kinoshita
Where the Sidewalk Ends - Preminger
Forbidden Planet - Wilcox
The Ladykillers - Mackendrick
Le Chant du styrene - Resnais
Lightning - Naruse
An American in Paris - Minnelli
Daybreak Express - Pennebaker
East of Eden - Kazan
Anatomy of a Murder - Preminger
Ben-Hur - Wyler
Le Amiche - Antonioni
I Confess - Hitchcock
Limelight - Chaplin
Seven Men from Now - Boetticher
Murder by Contract - Lerner
Bitter Victory - Ray
The Day the Earth Stood Still - Wise
French Can-can - Renoir
Monkey Business - Hawks
Baby Doll - Kazan
Elena et ses hommes - Renoir
Eyes without a Face - Franju
Story of Pure Love - Imai
The Far Country - Mann
It's Always Fair Weather - Donen / Kelly
The Railroad Man - Germi
The Man from Laramie - Mann
Gentlemen Prefer Blondes - Hawks
Angel Face - Preminger
Fixed Bayonets! - Fuller
Rebel without a Cause - Ray
While the City Sleeps - Lang
Alice in Wonderland - Geronimi et al.
Roman Holiday - Wyler
Giants and Toys - Masumura
The Magician - Bergman
The Man with the Golden Arm - Preminger

Ten most-voted for directors:

Hitchcock - 2376 votes (for 10 films)
Ozu - 2330 votes (for 8 films)
Mizoguchi - 1784 votes (for 9 films)
Kurosawa - 1703
Bresson - 1370
Welles - 1036
Bergman - 978
Naruse - 913
Sirk - 826
Wilder - 775

Looking at the films that attracted more than 200 votes, the most passionately adored were Seven Samurai and The Band Wagon. The Kurosawa made it into the top 5 even though it did not appear on twelve of the lists submitted, so its average placing was 9th on the lists of those who voted for it. The Band Wagon only featured on eight lists, so its average placement on those lists was 12th. By comparison, the top two titles had pretty impressive average rankings of 15th (Tokyo Story) and 13th (Vertigo).

Thanks for your work.

And for all my notorious Ozu partisanship -- I would suggest to people that "Crucified Lovers" was FAR more entitled to a place on the list than "Good Morning" or "Green Tea". I hope many more people get to see this (as soon as MOC's DVD comes out).

;~}

mikeohhh wrote:What I'm most interested in is what will be the top debut in this list ... I'm thinking something from the MoC Naruse box

zedz wrote:28. Sound of the Mountain (Naruse) 299

FUN STUFF 4 LIST NERDS:

What's new:
28. Sound of the Mountain (Naruse) 299
47. Othello (Welles) 209
50. Mr. Arkadin (Welles) 200
53. Tokyo Twilight (Ozu) 195
54= Repast (Naruse) 194
58. Anatahan (Sternberg) 180
59. Casque d'Or (Becker) 178
60. Ace in the Hole (Wilder) 176
63= Eaux d'Artifice (Anger) 163
63= Le Plaisir (Ophuls) 163
67= Touchez pas au grisbi (Becker) 157
69= Fires on the Plain (Ichikawa) 156
75. The Sweet Smell of Success (Mackendrick) 146
78. The Tiger of Eschnapur / The Indian Tomb (Lang) 141
79. Flowing (Naruse) 135
80. The White Sheik (Fellini) 134
84= Winchester 73 (Mann) 129
89. The Burmese Harp (Ichikawa) 117
90= The Lusty Men (Ray) 114
90= The Naked Spur (Mann) 114
92= Late Chrysanthemums (Naruse) 112
92= The Night of the Demon (Tourneur) 112
95. The Music Room (Ray) 110
96. The Lavender Hill Mob (Crichton) 107
97. Night and the City (Dassin) 106
99= A Face in the Crowd (Kazan) 102
99= Kanal (Wajda) 102

What's gone:
48. Written On the Wind (Sirk, 1956), 208
55. The African Queen (Huston, 1951), 167
59. Bigger Than Life (Ray, 1956), 153
60. Steel Helmet (Fuller, 1951), 152
62. (Tie) Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (1953), 148
64. Wrong Man (Hitchcock, 1956), 146
66. Asphalt Jungle (Huston, 1950), 135
68. Bridge on the River Kwai (Lean, 1957), 130
69. El - This Strange Passion , 125
70. Dial M for Murder (Hitchcock, 1954), 124
71. Senso (Visconti), 122
74. Forty Guns (Fuller, 1957), 119
76. Lola Montes (Ophuls, 1955), 114
80. (Tie) Chikamatsu Monogatari (Mizoguchi, 1954), 103
Horror of Dracula (Fisher, 1958), 103
83. High Noon (Zinneman, 1952), 102
85. Europa 51 (Rossellini), 98
87. The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956), 95
88. Golden Coach (Renoir), 94
89. White Nights (Visconti), 92
90. Movie (Conner), 89
91. (Tie) Duck Amuck (Jones), 88
Hidden Fortress, (Kurosawa, 1958), 88
93. The Lower Depths (1957), 88
94. Bonjour Tristesse (Preminger, 1958), 87
96. (Tie) Bad Day At Black Rock (Sturges, 1955 ), 84
98. (Tie) Ashes and Diamonds (Wajda, 1958), 83
Auntie Mame, 83
Day the Earth Stood Still (Wise, 1951), 83
Suddenly, Last Summer (Mankiewicz, 1959), 83
Tarnished Angels (Sirk, 1958), 83

Up 10 or more places:
8. Early Summer (Ozu) 548 (+12)
10. Sansho the Bailiff (Mizoguchi) 521 (+29)
19. Pickpocket (Bresson) 362 (+12)
21. All that Heaven Allows (Sirk) 352 (+13)
26= The Life of O-Haru (Mizoguchi) 307 (+27)
30. Los Olvidados (Bunuel) 292 (+50)
37. The Big Heat (Lang) 245 (+21)
40. Pickup on South Street (Fuller) 237 (+11)
42. Street of Shame (Mizoguchi) 233 (+25)
46. Gun Crazy (Lewis) 218 (+35)*
51= Bob le flambeur (Melville) 196 (+21)
67= Man of the West (Mann) 157 (+19)

Down 10 or more places:
17. The 400 Blows (Truffaut) 398 (-11)
18. Rashomon (Kurosawa) 387 (-10)
20. Wild Strawberries (Bergman) 359 (-15)
32. The Seventh Seal (Bergman) 283 (-10)
33. Ikiru (Kurosawa) 274 (-20)
44= Night and Fog (Resnais) 231 (-20)
44= Nights of Cabiria (Fellini) 231 (-14)
48. Kiss Me Deadly (Aldrich) 208 (-10)
51= The Killing (Kubrick) 196 (-14)
56. All About Eve (Mankiewicz) 186 (-31)
57. Viaggio in Italia (Rossellini) 185 (-11)
62. Throne of Blood (Kurosawa) 171 (-34)
65. Imitation of Life (Sirk) 161 (-12)
71. Johnny Guitar (Ray) 153 (-27)
73. The Wages of Fear (Clouzot) 149 (-28)
74. Les Diaboliques (Clouzot) 147 (-31)
76= Floating Weeds (Ozu) 145 (-40)
84= On the Waterfront (Kazan) 129 (-27)
88. The Cranes Are Flying (Kalatozov) 120 (-32)
92= The Flowers of St Francis (Rossellini) 112 (-14)
98. A Star Is Born (Cukor) 103 (-48)

*reflects Gun Crazy's position on the last 1940s list

mikeohhh wrote:

mikeohhh wrote:What I'm most interested in is what will be the top debut in this list ... I'm thinking something from the MoC Naruse box

zedz wrote:28. Sound of the Mountain (Naruse) 299

A few days ago this was quivering at number 12. I could hardly believe my eyes. It's clear that availability makes a huge difference to a given film's fortunes, as Michael notes. If Criterion had released an equivalent box set to MoC's, I'm confident we would have seen Naruse even higher. I think it also suggests we were correct to wait for the release of the Eclipse Ozu set, given the strong performance of most of those titles.

I think this is also a good opportunity to watch the tides of fashion go in (Japanese cinema) and out (Bergman, New Wave, and to some extent Big Hollywood).

One of the biggest surprises for me was the scant presence of Avery and Warner Brothers cartoons, which attracted huge amounts of votes (though drastically split) last time around. Even the canonical Duck Amuck only got a couple of mentions.

zedz wrote:One of the biggest surprises for me was the scant presence of Avery and Warner Brothers cartoons, which attracted huge amounts of votes (though drastically split) last time around. Even the canonical Duck Amuck only got a couple of mentions.

I don't know about others, but I just can't bring myself to compare cartoons (no matter how wonderful I think they are) with features so I don't seriously consider them. It's not a knock on artistic merit. They're just too different to weigh against one another. One's a dessert and the other's a main course, as far as I'm concerned.

More Fun Stuff for List Nerds

Films w/o U.S. Region 1 Releases

#24 Madame de... (Second Sight UK R2, English subs)
#26 The Life of O-Haru (Artificial Eye UK R2, English subs)
#28 The Sound of the Mountain (Masters of Cinema UK R2, English subs)
#30 Los Olvidados (Alter Films Mexico, English subs)
#42 Street of Shame (Films Sans Frontieres 2-DVD set, Rue de la Honte, English subs)
#54 Repast (Masters of Cinema UK R2, English subs)
#57 Viaggio in Italia (Films Sans Frontieres, English language version)
#58 Anatahan (VHS only)
#60 Ace in the Hole (no legit release until July 17, 2007 Criterion)
#63 Le Plaisir (Second Sight UK R2, English subs)
#67 Man of the West (MGM UK R2, Carlotta France R2)
#76 The Criminal Life of Archibaldo de La Cruz (Films Sans Frontieres R2, English subs)
#79 Flowing (Masters of Cinema UK R2, English subs)
#81 The Flavor of Green Tea Over Rice (Panorama Hong Kong R3, Tartan UK R2, English subs)
#87 Les Enfants Terribles (no US release until Criterion DVD on July 24, 2007)
#90 The Lusty Men (VHS only, VCI Home Video)
#92 Late Chrysanthemums (VHS only, World Artists Home Video)
#95 The Music Room (Films Sans Frontieres R2 France, English subs)

souvenir wrote:

zedz wrote:One of the biggest surprises for me was the scant presence of Avery and Warner Brothers cartoons, which attracted huge amounts of votes (though drastically split) last time around. Even the canonical Duck Amuck only got a couple of mentions.

I don't know about others, but I just can't bring myself to compare cartoons (no matter how wonderful I think they are) with features so I don't seriously consider them. It's not a knock on artistic merit. They're just too different to weigh against one another. One's a dessert and the other's a main course, as far as I'm concerned.

I expect the situation is even more extreme with experimental (and especially non-narrative) work. Is there any interest in a one-off "List Project" dedicated to short films (of any vintage)?

zedz wrote:One of the biggest surprises for me was the scant presence of Avery and Warner Brothers cartoons, which attracted huge amounts of votes (though drastically split) last time around. Even the canonical Duck Amuck only got a couple of mentions.

I had Duck Amuck at #16 (the only cartoon I voted for... oh and Alice in Wonderland) and I was very surprised that didn't make it considering how well cartoons fared on both the '30s and '40s lists. BTW, thank you '30s voters for introducing me to Bimbo's Initiation and Len Lye.

Thanks a bunch for your effort zedz.

I too disregarded shorts and cartoons from my list as I don't really view them in the same light as features. I'd be very interested in the results of a shorts-dedicated list but I don't think I've seen enough to be able to cast a meaningful vote.

So zedz, would this potential shorts list include animations, experimental and documentary shorts, or did you think of it as an animated shorts only list?

In either event, I would be happy to contribute, although my real interest would be to read the panda lists for inspiration for future viewing.

I would like to second the enthusiasm for compiling a "shorts list." However, I'd also like to mention that I started another List Project. In response to AFI's recent reprise of their 100 Years...100 Movies list, which alleges to compiles the 100 greatest American movies ever made, I have started a new thread that proposes a list-making effort that will compile the best 100 American, feature-length films that have not been given recognition by the American Film Institute, either on their 1998 or their 2007 list. (I made the limitation that nominated films must be "feature-length" so as to make the list more comparable to both the AFI's lists and Jonathan Rosenbaum's 1998 riposte to the first AFI list. Anyway, it would make my list serve as a nice complement to the shorts-only list.) By the way, how does the AFI get away with the absurdity of claiming that their 2007 list is a 10th anniversary version of their 1998 list? Did somebody move up the release of the list because of a slump in DVD sales?

It looks like we're getting a proliferation of potential Lists Projects, so we should be careful they don't bump into one another.

1) Jon's 'Bizarro AFI' list - due December 31, 2007

2) 1960s List - due October 31, 2007 (if we follow the 4 month pattern)

3) Shorts List - how about due 31 August, 2007, to keep things staggered.

Shorts List rules:

Taking a lead from Jon's "feature-length" ruling, a short is any film under 40 minutes (according to IMDB).

It includes live action narratives, animation, experimental films (narrative and abstract), documentaries, music videos, even movie trailers (though there's probably only a handful that stand alongside the best 'conscious' short films).

They can come from any country and all of cinema history is up for grabs, so Lumiere actualities can sit alongside Keaton two-reelers, Epstein pseudo-documentaries, Silly Symphonies, Deren trance films, Aardman animations, Borowczyk cut-outs, US Govt PSAs, Brakhage direct films, J-pop music videos, Free Cinema, Bugs Bunny shorts and Cornell found objects. The more diverse your viewing, the more interesting the final list would be. I reserve the right to reject completely lists of the "My 50 Favourite Music Videos" nature.

Films produced for television can be included, but only if they are one-off productions (e.g. La Cabina) - single episodes of television series (even anthology series) don't count.

I'm inclined to allow episodes from portmanteau films (e.g. The Hand, La Ricotta), since they've been voted for in isolation in previous iterations of the lists project. If this outrages anybody, let me know.

Any other grey areas that need to be addressed?

PM me with your lists (50, ranked) by the end of August (c/o the Hotel Ozone).

It's probably advisable to set up discussion threads for each of these projects.

zedz wrote:Taking a lead from Jon's "feature-length" ruling, a short is any film under 40 minutes (according to IMDB).

I just started doing some preliminary research for this, and it's uncanny how many titles I was thinking of fall just in the 41+ min range. I suppose at least this stricture will mitigate against a focus on conventionally narrative (longish) shorts.

Gropius wrote:

zedz wrote:Taking a lead from Jon's "feature-length" ruling, a short is any film under 40 minutes (according to IMDB).

I just started doing some preliminary research for this, and it's uncanny how many titles I was thinking of fall just in the 41+ min range. I suppose at least this stricture will mitigate against a focus on conventionally narrative (longish) shorts.

Ditto. Nothing conventionally narrative about it, but A Walk through H just misses out (unless you time it post-PAL speed up!). Still, just extracting the shorts from my existing lists gives me about three times more than I need.

I still don't have any idea whether this idea is in fact a goer (i.e. will enough lists be submitted to make a collation possible, especially as I expect the submissions for this project will be much more diverse than for the decade by decade lists). If forum members can PM me if they intend to make a list, I'll be able to decide whether this is likely to work. I wouldn't want a handful of people to go to the trouble of working something up if there aren't enough to reach any conclusions.

zedz wrote:I still don't have any idea whether this idea is in fact a goer (i.e. will enough lists be submitted to make a collation possible, especially as I expect the submissions for this project will be much more diverse than for the decade by decade lists). If forum members can PM me if they intend to make a list, I'll be able to decide whether this is likely to work. I wouldn't want a handful of people to go to the trouble of working something up if there aren't enough to reach any conclusions.

I plead maybe.

A handful of people have indeed indicated a desire to contribute, so I'll go ahead with it, but there may not be enough votes gathered (especially considering the breadth of the field) to assemble a 100-strong aggregate list.

In all the kerfuffle, I forgot about the Shorts List and had to go back and check what the deadline was. It's the end of this month, apparently, so PM your lists to me in the next couple of weeks.

Recapping the Shorts List rules:

A short is any film under 40 minutes (according to IMDB).

The definition includes live action narratives, animation, experimental films (narrative and abstract), documentaries, music videos, even movie trailers.

They can come from any country and all of cinema history is up for grabs, so Lumiere actualities can sit alongside Keaton two-reelers, Epstein pseudo-documentaries, Silly Symphonies, Deren trance films, Aardman animations, Borowczyk cut-outs, US Govt PSAs, Brakhage direct films, J-pop music videos, Free Cinema, Bugs Bunny shorts and Cornell found objects.

Films produced for television can be included, but only if they are one-off productions (e.g. La Cabina, Elephant) - single episodes of television series (even anthology series) don't count.

Episodes from portmanteau films (e.g. The Hand, La Ricotta) are also eligible.

Once the lists start coming in I'll post provisional updates in the Shorts List thread.