2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 2)

An ongoing project to survey the best films of individual decades, genres, and filmmakers
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zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:24 pm

Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#576 Post by zedz »

flyonthewall2983 wrote:Is there any chance that the list that will be compiled in January be revised at a later date? I'm asking because I'm planning in 2010, to Netflix every film of interest of me from the decade that I've not seen yet and review them. With those, I'm also planning on reviewing and re-watching my favorites from the decade thus far. I hope to have by the end of the year, a definitive list of 50 films, complete with reviews. I'll be sure to post it here, whether or not there will be a revision of the final list.
That's in the lap of the gods.

This is actually the second iteration of the Lists Project. The first one concluded in about 2006, I think, then we took it again from the top. We did, however, slow down the pace of the project so as to allow for a bit more evolution and availability to inflect each new decade list and, most recently, to allow the 2000s list to actually come at the end of its decade.

I'm assuming there will be another iteration of the entire project after this one, and have already initiated a new 'Early Cinema / pre-1920' installment, which I'll be collating, but after that it's up to whoever wants to take over the running of it to establish the time frame.

So, I expect there will be another '2000s List Project' eventually, but it's likely to be several years out.

This is probably a good time to remind people that these lists are anything but definitive. Availability and fashion (and let's not forget lobbying) have had radical impacts on past lists and all we're really getting in the main list is a blurry snapshot of a moment in the murky zeitgeist of one cranky online community. Its main values (and those of the also-rans list) are in suggesting further avenues of exploration and indicating vaguely how the canon is evolving - or not - rather than settling any questions of value definitively. So enjoy yourselves, and go for subjective over so-called objective value every time.
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A
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:41 pm

Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#577 Post by A »

Hmm, reading through this thread, I've seen that there are still dozens of films I've wanted to see, but somehow never managed, as well as some (though few) I haven't heard of, yet.
Anyways, I'll PM My Top 50 today, as it's fairly easy for me to choose 50 masterpieces from this decade that I think are as good as any other movie in film history. I'm aware, that any list is temporary, and if I'd rewatch all of the films I've already seen, as well as watch a couple 100 more, My Top 50 might change drastically. But I'll leave this to happen in the future.
What I want to say is that I think posting (and choosing merely ) 50 films that I utterly love is enough (and ranking them almost criminal). 50 other films that I utterly love won't be any better - just different.

And for the record, as much as I consider myself a devoted cinephile, and believe the current decade to be the weakest in film history so far (I even prefer the 1890s), it's the one from which I've seen most films. One reason for this is my cinematic passion reaching its pinnacle during the first half of this decade, the other being the ongoing visit of numerous film festivals each year. Though I usually frequent the retrospectives and leave out new releases on most of them, many don't show old movies (I know, it's a crime!). This year, I've seen some 60 new films and I expect to see at least 20 more before year's end.
For this decade, it's more than 1000 movies since 2000 and roughly 100 per year.

I was thinking hard which movie to nominate as a swapsie, so I'll also list a few films that are on my Top 50 but which I think are still known to a very limited community of cineastes:

Au-delà de la haine "Beyond Hatred" (Olivier Meyrou / France)
Marseille (Angela Schanelec / Germany)
Il regista di matrimoni "The Wedding Director" (Marco Bellocchio / Italy)
Nebo. Samolyot. Devushka. "Sky. Plane. Girl." (Vera Storozheva / Russia)
Bu jian "The Missing" (Lee Kang-sheng / Taiwan)
Uttara "The Wrestlers" (Buddhadev Dasgupta / India)
Der Felsen "A Map of the Heart" (Dominik Graf / Germany)
Kaalpurush "Memories in the Mist" (Buddhadev Dasgupta / India)
Bungalow (Ulrich Köhler / Germany)
Sophiiiie! (Michael Hofmann / Germany)
L'amour, l'argent, l'amour "Love, Money, Love" (Philip Gröning / Germany, Switzerland, France)
Babooska (Tizza Covi, Rainer Frimmel / Italy, Austria)
Ebolusyon ng isang pamilyang pilipino "Evolution of a Filipino Family" (Lav Diaz / Philippines)
Lenz (Thomas Imbach / Switzerland, Germany)
...Es wird jemand kommen, der ja zu mir sagt "Ruth" (Michael Blume / Germany)
Lá-bas "Down There" (Chantal Akerman / Belgium, France)
Frau fährt, Mann schläft (Rudolf Thome / Germany)
Amour neutre "Love neutral" (Pierre Coulibeuf / France)
Mizu no hana "Water Flower" (Yusuke Kinoshita / Japan)


And my swapsie is: Kôfuku no kane "Blessing Bell" (Sabu / Japan)


PS: Boy, this was difficult! When I wrote down a list with my favorite films from this decade, I came up with roughly 140 titles...
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foggy eyes
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#578 Post by foggy eyes »

A wrote:Marseille (Angela Schanelec / Germany)
Ebolusyon ng isang pamilyang pilipino "Evolution of a Filipino Family" (Lav Diaz / Philippines)
Lá-bas "Down There" (Chantal Akerman / Belgium, France)
I salute you, sir! Diaz's film is the decade's unseen, unheard masterpiece, comparable in scale and richness to Alexanderplatz. (Yes, you heard me.) Schanelec is a very important filmmaker too, but I've yet to catch up with all of her work...
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GringoTex
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#579 Post by GringoTex »

A wrote: And my swapsie is: Kôfuku no kane "Blessing Bell" (Sabu / Japan)
Where is this available?
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A
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#580 Post by A »

There's a German DVD available from Rapid Eye Movies (Don't know if it has english subs, though).
I own a subtitled VHS, but I saw it at the cinema. :wink:
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domino harvey
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#581 Post by domino harvey »

There's still over ten weeks left, why would you submit your list now?
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A
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#582 Post by A »

Why I already submitted my list:

a) because I cannot possibly catch up with the 1000+ titles I've always wanted to but still haven't seen from this decade, and

b) So far, I have some 140 personal favorites from this decade, and it was hard enough to limit them to 50. It is very well possible, that I would discover some further masterpieces while trying to watch more of the unknown, but in the end what difference does it really make? It already felt somehow pointless to me trying to bring my 50 choices in order (though I begrudgingly did it nevertheless), and having to decide between even more possible contenders wouldn't have made things easier. And after all, tastes and opinions change through time.
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Peacock
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#583 Post by Peacock »

A wrote:Why I already submitted my list:
Indeed but no ones saying you have to view every film mentioned in the thread, even if you watch a couple you might suddenly get a different Top 5 - and as has been shown before, just one extra vote on an obscure film can suddenly lift it out of obscurity for us List-Whores. Also it kinda defeats the purpose of swapsies to give one after you've handed the list in!

Very interesting sounding films though you've posted there! Will definitely try track down a few (if any exist with english subs!)
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swo17
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#584 Post by swo17 »

How anyone could complete a Top 50 of the decade without even having had a chance to see Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakquel is beyond me.

Seriously though, I don't know what planet you're living on, but there is no way that you have already seen 1000 movies from this decade and yet there are still 1000+ left that you've "always wanted to see" that could seriously be in contention for a list like this. Surely you can narrow that list down to, I don't know, 50-100 that you are most eager to give a chance. The list deadline is the end of January for a reason.
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A
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#585 Post by A »

Well, I've been keeping track of what's been released since 2000 and the ones I haven't seen (but written down as I-really-want-to-see-this) are ca. 600. Then figure all of the stuff that doesn't get released (which is like 70% - in my country you can see ca. 500 "new" films at the cinema, out of, I don't know 15000 (wild guess) that get produced each year around the globe), and you get a huge number.
I don't see anything strange with 1000+ films on my to see list for this decade. After all, I am a dedicated cinephile for about 10 years now. I'm not talking about the 30s or even the 80s, but the decade we are living in, with the possibility to inform yourself not only via hundreds of books and magazines that get published around the world, but also the internet. :wink:

Those I've "always wanted to see" are just that. Films I've wanted to see since I'd first read or heard about them. And I don't recall them all from the top of my head. That's why lists are useful. O:) Of course I also doubt they could all qualify for a list which can only allow 50. It's mathematically impossible. But if I technically/objectively go by the 1000 I've seen, and the 1000 I still want to see - there is no way of telling where those 50 might hide. [-(

Of course I could narrow my most wanted from the last 10 years down to 100 or 50. But as I said before: I've watched so many films this decade, that I'm perfectly comfortable with the Top 50 I submitted.


@Peacock

the swapsie still works, ass I can change my submitted list till January. 8-[ :^o #-o :wink:

And don't worry - my list mostly consists of obscure films. I doubt that anybody else will vote for half of them. :cry:

PS: And of course I will be regularly watching films from this decade till the end of the year (as I always do). What with lots of new releases I still want to see at the cinema? =P~
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Zazou dans le Metro
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#586 Post by Zazou dans le Metro »

zedz wrote:
domino harvey wrote:After having it checked out from Netflix for like two months, I finally slogged through Resnais' Pas sur la bouche. This total disaster is a musical made by someone with no understanding of how a musical works and indeed seems fairly contemptuous of the medium. Displays the worst kind of cold academic detachment, which is utterly deadly with this material. I'd say its bad reputation was even too generous!
This film left so little impression on me I had to do a google search for some details to confirm I'd actually seen it, so ditto. Resnais' previous On connait le chanson has marginally more interest as a variant musical, but only if you're completely ignorant of Dennis Potter's much more effective, extensive and radical exploration of the same ideas in Pennies from Heaven and The Singing Detective. When I saw that film I was shocked that Resnais wasn't dragged over the critical coals for his bald plagiarism - or worse, the reductive conservatism of it.
Now that the dust has settled somewhat after zedz and dominos' Panzer divisions have rumbled through the ruins of Resnaisville I am sticking my head tentatively over the parapet and waving a small damp white hankie.
Far from this being a plea for Resnais' inclusion in the 2000 list (I haven't actually seen Bouche, other than a clip of Lambert Wilson's reverse Clousseau take on the french language) I do however find a lot of merit in 'On Connait la Chanson'.
Firstly Resnais dedicates the piece to Potter on a single card in the opening credits, so I don't think there's any disingenuous plagiarism going on here.
Secondly it is scripted by Jaoui and Bacri, whose other deft comedy of manners ( Un Air de Famille etc) I also enjoy. Lightweight fluff for some maybe but intelligent and watchable.
Principally though I'm not sure that the charge of reductive, conservative,cold, academic and the other similar snipings hit home here.
From memory, Potter's interludes such as in 'The Singing Detective', are mined principally from the late thirties (i.e post music hall, pre-pop) and are situated in the theatre of the imagination of the central character. These seem to be triggered by his musings on his present situation and momentarily invite us to step out into a parallel cabaret reality by rendering the space theatrical, through lighting, dance routines, the camp lip sync etc.
This is all fine and dandy and thoroughly enjoyable but makes me think that more often than not Potter started with a 'Desert Island Discs' list of favourites that were then engineered into place.
In 'On Connait la Chanson', and the title points to this, the choice of song is far more wide sweeping and arguably far more well known to a french audience than Potter's more archaic pieces to an anglo-saxon audience. This is by design to find a song that not only suits the moment emotionally but also works as recitative to move the narration along. Furthermore the sense of the lyrics is understood by those around the singer/mimer. We and they are not frozen in time while we watch the show. I think this is an important distinction and I don't see how this emotional response from Resnais can be accused of academic coldness or conservatism.
There are also different shadings of this technique at play also.
From the corpulent camp Commandant (pun and alliteration intended) responding to,and refusing, the infamous order to raze Paris to the ground with Josephine Baker's heavily foreign accented 'J'ai deux Amours', one of which is Paris itself, is easily the equal of Potter's and whose irony might even outstrip him.
Arditti's 'rehearsal' of how he's going to break from his wife using Gainsbourg's 'Je suis venu te dire que je m'en vais' which ultimately falters when he tries to deliver it face to face is also an emotional expansion of Potterworld I would suggest.
OK there are some other moments that are intended as ironic that might ring as clever-clever. (I'm thinking of the Use of Jane Birkin's 'Quoi" and then the appearance of La Birkin herself later on) but all in all I think it's a valiant try at a take on a genuinely sincere hommage. But as we all know 'hommage' is a french word for plagiarism n'est-ce pas?
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swo17
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#587 Post by swo17 »

A wrote:the swapsie still works, ass I can change my submitted list till January. 8-[ :^o #-o :wink:

And don't worry - my list mostly consists of obscure films. I doubt that anybody else will vote for half of them. :cry:
Well I'm not going to tell you how to live your life, but at the very least, if you are proposing a swapsie, you are morally obligated to watch everyone else's swapsies before you submit your final list.

Also, if you submit a list of obscure films in the middle of the woods and no one is around to hear it then, yes, you guessed it, it might as well never have even existed in the first place. Might I suggest you write a few words in favor of some of your more readily available favorites, so as to maybe bring some of these films out of obscurity, where they will no longer be special to you alone, but may be spit upon or embraced by the public at large, as we see fit!
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A
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#588 Post by A »

Fair words.
I'll watch the films, and tell you, if I had to change my list afterwards. :wink:

Well, I had to submit my Top 50 via PM, so of course no one is around to hear it. Didn't think it fit to go on a praising spree with them, because most are relatively obscure, and I didn't want to sound like a jackass/snob. Usually I get a lot of flag or ignorance for my selections, e.g. why do you favor obscure film x to the latest Haneke", etc. and maybe I didn't want to start this kind of discussions here.

I'm sorry that my submitting the list right now has caused this irritation.

Sooo, here's a trailer on youtube I've found for my swapsie "Blessing Bell" it doesn't have subs, but maybe you can get a first impression from it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j73VnC2cWqI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sabu is mostly renowned for his early comedies like "Dangan Runner", "Postman Blues", "Unlucky Monkey" or "Monday" where he mixes absurd dead-pan humor with tragic circumstances. "Blessing Bell" might seem like more of the same, but it has a more rigid formalistic approach than his former films, and his trademark minimalism has also been intensified. Basically, the main character goes wandering through town, after he has lost his job at the beginning of the film. But he almost never speaks, and the strangest of things happen to him (winning in a lottery, saving people's lifes, being sent to jail, landing in the hospital, etc.). All in the course of a single day. Essentially it can be seen as a film about the meaning of life. Imagine Aki Kaurismäki has put the essence of all of his films together, and distilled them into one, spiritual movie. If nothing else, the film definitely makes for an interesting viewing experience. :wink:
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#589 Post by A »

And here are a few words on some obscure films I listed:

Au-delà de la haine "Beyond Hatred" (Olivier Meyrou / France)
- documentary about the family of a gay teenager who was brutally murdered by three skinheads in France. Meyrou follows the family at home and during court.
DVD with English subtitles: http://www.blaqout.com/site2/catalog/pr ... ovie_id=63" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Interview with the director on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7kZRJ99Io8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Marseille (Angela Schanelec / Germany)
- a young woman tries to change her life and escape from herself through a move from Berlin to Marseille. It doesn't work though.
DVD with English subtitles: http://www.filmgalerie451.de/film/marseille/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Il regista di matrimoni "The Wedding Director" (Marco Bellocchio / Italy)
- Franco Elica, a famous director, lands in a small sicilian town when he wanders off a train to escape the complications in his life. There he falls in love with the daughter of a count who is soon to be wed.
Available to watch on theauteurs.com: http://www.theauteurs.com/films/1044" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nebo. Samolyot. Devushka. "Sky. Plane. Girl." (Vera Storozheva / Russia)
- Tragic Melodrama about the love affair between a stewardess and a TV-reporter set in contemporary Russia, spiced with humor and fantasy.
DVD with Eglish subs available at amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Sky-Plane-Nebo-Sa ... B0002EXKB0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Peacock
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#590 Post by Peacock »

A wrote:Didn't think it fit to go on a praising spree with them, because most are relatively obscure, and I didn't want to sound like a jackass/snob.
You won't sound like a snob. This is the whole purpose of the thread, tell us about a film you've seen from this decade and why it's good or bad, otherwise everyone will just submit lists and there's absolutely nothing interesting in that (for me anyway) - oh yeah and thanks for the links to those english-subbed dvds, very helpful!
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A
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#591 Post by A »

Most of my favorite films have some spiritual dynamic in them, and they are basically all about the realtionships between people and the world. Don't like films with a "clear" message in them, and I'm a huge sucker for idiosyncratic technical approaches in narrative filmmaking.

My Top two films from this decade are currently "The Brown Bunny" and "The New World", and I'd say most of the films I dearly love have a similar outlook on life as those two combined. This probably goes about all of the films on my Top 50. Life as suffering. Love, loss, death, but still as the last image in Malick's latest film: the camera looking up the trunk of a tree...

I also enjoy unconventional/transgressive takes on relationships between people.

So I guess most people won't appreciate those kind of films.
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#592 Post by Skritek »

I remember seeing Unlucky Monkey and Blessing Bell a long time ago on TV. They both were extremely absurd, but very amusing. Don't remember much more though. It surprises me a little to find the film on a top-list though, as it didn't exactly blow my mind back then.
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foggy eyes
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#593 Post by foggy eyes »

A wrote:Love, loss, death, but still as the last image in Malick's latest film: the camera looking up the trunk of a tree...
See also: Kawase's The Mourning Forest, perhaps, which is well worth a look. There's an English-subbed DVD available here.
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#594 Post by puxzkkx »

A wrote:I also enjoy unconventional/transgressive takes on relationships between people.
Watch Vibrator.

And don't worry about sounding like a snob. On CriterionForum, if you didn't sound a little bit snobbish, we'd be worried!
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Zazou dans le Metro
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#595 Post by Zazou dans le Metro »

A wrote:
My Top two films from this decade are currently "The Brown Bunny" and "The New World", and I'd say most of the films I dearly love have a similar outlook on life as those two combined. This probably goes about all of the films on my Top 50. Life as suffering. Love, loss, death, but still as the last image in Malick's latest film: the camera looking up the trunk of a tree..

So I guess most people won't appreciate those kind of films.
I'm struggling here to combine these two films to share your outlook but all I can come up with is the camera looking up the trunk of Gallo's cock as he's being fellated but maybe I'm just one of those people who won't appreciate these kind of films.
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Michael Kerpan
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#596 Post by Michael Kerpan »

foggy eyes wrote:See also: Kawase's The Mourning Forest, perhaps, which is well worth a look. There's an English-subbed DVD available here.
I've been a Kawase fan since I first saw Suzaku in 2001 or so. But I found Mourning Forest very problematic and her subsequent Nanayo mostly excruciating (with the exception of a few minutes here and there).
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#597 Post by A »

Here are some more links to (English friendly) possibilities to view those films:

Bu jian "The Missing" (Lee Kang-sheng / Taiwan)
2 Disc Set with Tsai's Bu san: http://www.yesasia.com/global/the-missi ... /info.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Uttara "The Wrestlers" (Buddhadev Dasgupta / India)
There is a VHS with German andFrench subs from Trigon film in Switzerland...
Found a small clip on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofwt97DlOVw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Der Felsen "A Map of the Heart" (Dominik Graf / Germany)
German DVD without subs...

Kaalpurush "Memories in the Mist" (Buddhadev Dasgupta / India)
I found a DVD with english subs: http://www.induna.com/1000004276-productdetails/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Watch on youtube without subs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7WK9dmQFBk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bungalow (Ulrich Köhler / Germany)
DVD with English subs: http://www.filmgalerie451.de/en/film/bungalow/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sophiiiie! (Michael Hofmann / Germany)
DVD with English subs: http://www.amazon.de/Sophiiiie-Katharin ... 038&sr=8-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

L'amour, l'argent, l'amour "Love, Money, Love" (Philip Gröning / Germany, Switzerland, France)
DVD with English subs: http://www.filmgalerie451.de/en/film/lamour/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Babooska (Tizza Covi, Rainer Frimmel / Italy, Austria)
Available on DVD with another film by the directors but I don't know about subtitles: http://www.amazon.de/babooska-DVD-Blu-r ... ska&page=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#598 Post by A »

foggy eyes wrote: See also: Kawase's The Mourning Forest, perhaps, which is well worth a look. There's an English-subbed DVD available here.
I'm a fan of Kawase, and I watched "The Mourning Forest" at Vienna ilm Festival two years ago. Didn't do much for me, though...
But a friend of mine whom I introduced to her work through this film was blown away by it. lol 8-)
I'll certainly rewatch it when I get the chance, but I'm currently with Michael Kerpan on this one.
puxzkkx wrote:
Watch Vibrator.

And don't worry about sounding like a snob. On CriterionForum, if you didn't sound a little bit snobbish, we'd be worried!
Viubrator seems to be on my to-watch list like forever. I purchased the book last year to finally get down to it, but I haven't even begun reading the book, yet.

Zazou dans le Metro wrote: I'm struggling here to combine these two films to share your outlook but all I can come up with is the camera looking up the trunk of Gallo's cock as he's being fellated
You are funny. Lol. :D
I know it can be difficult. But I am fortunate to have some fellow cinephiles as friends who can understand me. :wink:
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Michael Kerpan
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#599 Post by Michael Kerpan »

A wrote:Vibrator seems to be on my to-watch list like forever. I purchased the book last year to finally get down to it, but I haven't even begun reading the book, yet.
Hiroki has a new film which is really quite nice -- perhaps a bit less edgy than Vibrator -- called "My Friends" (oops, probably YOUR Friends -- which is the literal translation of the Japanese title -- "Kimi no tomodatchi")..
Last edited by Michael Kerpan on Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zazou dans le Metro
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#600 Post by Zazou dans le Metro »

A wrote:[
puxzkkx wrote:
Watch Vibrator.

And don't worry about sounding like a snob. On CriterionForum, if you didn't sound a little bit snobbish, we'd be worried!
Zazou dans le Metro wrote: I'm struggling here to combine these two films to share your outlook but all I can come up with is the camera looking up the trunk of Gallo's cock as he's being fellated
You are funny. Lol. :D
I know it can be difficult. But I am fortunate to have some fellow cinephiles as friends who can understand me. :wink:
Glad to see you're taking Puxzkkx's advice to heart
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