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mfunk9786 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 4:20 pm The only contribution I have to make on this discussion is that revisiting the first two Avatar films, I was completely wrong about them the first time around*. Utterly brilliant mass entertainment, leaps and bounds ahead of the way other blockbuster films are made and packaged. He can tell me to move out of mom's basement all he wants.

*I might need to blame the terrible theatrical 3D experience for this in both cases, but I know that ultimately it falls on me completely missing the point.

Good to see someone else admit to liking these most successful of films (unless I missed some sarcasm), so that makes two of us. I have never understood why these films are met with such hostility and pilloried for doing what countless blockbusters do (relatively simple plots, conflicts and relationships), but what they do well, they do better than anything else.

Technically, of course, they are absolute marvels, I don't have to suspend my disbelief with these films, they really take me to another world. The first Avatar still doesn't look dated and the bioluminescent environments are beautiful and unlike anything else out there. In terms of world-building, not much can touch it. Cameron knows how to stage set pieces and shoot action scenes like no one else, and while some of his dialogue is a little on the nose, he puts more effort into characterisation than most.

When they came out, most of the reviews were great, but there still seems to be this idea in the public consciousness that these are bad films, and considering their popularity, they don't have much of a cultural footprint.

I wasn't too keen on the second Avatar film at first, but I also had a bad experience at the cinema (I was the only person in a huge theatre who didn't seem to be talking or playing with their phone for the whole show. It was the last time I went to the cinema for a general release of a new film). I watched it again at home on my 3D projector and enjoyed it almost as much as the first film.

I especially enjoy the longest cut of the first film, because it shows us (however briefly) a glimpse at life on Earth at this time, and it's astonishing to me that something so imaginative had to be CUT FOR TIME...





And the way Jake Sully's apartment is visualized is also eerily realistic when compared to some people I've known in NYC over the years...



I just love it.

Seems highly influenced by mini Japan apartments with the drying lines. My algorithm on YouTube has been showing me a lot of those lately and every time I'm certain I've seen the smallest possible habitable apartment, there's a new video of an even smaller space. This one is especially insane / fascinating as it's literally just three hallways and a bathroom, but it isn't even a top five smallest apartment I've seen

The Curious Sofa wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 6:19 pm Good to see someone else admit to liking these most successful of films (unless I missed some sarcasm), so that makes two of us. I have never understood why these films are met with such hostility and pilloried for doing what countless blockbusters do (relatively simple plots, conflicts and relationships), but what they do well, they do better than anything else.

Technically, of course, they are absolute marvels, I don't have to suspend my disbelief with these films, they really take me to another world. The first Avatar still doesn't look dated and the bioluminescent environments are beautiful and unlike anything else out there. In terms of world-building, not much can touch it. Cameron knows how to stage set pieces and shoot action scenes like no one else, and while some of his dialogue is a little on the nose, he puts more effort into characterisation than most.

When they came out, most of the reviews were great, but there still seems to be this idea in the public consciousness that these are bad films, and considering their popularity, they don't have much of a cultural footprint.

I don't have much to add to this statement, but that's my feeling too. Cameron is always going to be a filmmaker I'm interested in seeing in the theater. Unlike anything with Marvel or DC (I've only seen 3 of their movies since 2008), Cameron writes movies with much more at stake. At some point I may have to double dip on these movies, since I own the last great plasma 3D tv, and now the beautiful 4k Sony A95L.

By the way, I just watched Terminator 2 the other day, which I saw in the theater during its initial release. It's the best movie I've ever saw in the theater, and now I'm fairly certain it's one of the better movies ever made.

Avatar: Fire and Ash trailer.

I dutifully sat through that and I still don’t get it. Does this series just activate a default setting in mainstream audiences where they’ll see it without anticipating or thinking about it?

All I kept thinking was that it resembles a videogame cutscene, just like the previous films.

brundlefly wrote: Mon Jul 28, 2025 3:36 pm Avatar: Fire and Ash trailer.

So good and looks even better in IMAX

Looks like a bunch of crap, but that’s what I’ve said about the other Avatars too. Like, they seriously don’t want a second pass on the Navis? They look like garbage. I guess people don’t care because things go boom and big Pokémon things fly in the sky hauling boats.

Like jangling keys in front of babies.

I rewatched the much derided CGI demon fight from Spawn last night on YouTube and it didn’t fundamentally function much different than this trailer. There are exceedingly rare recent cases of filmmakers similarly utilizing a lot of CGI effectively to give us fantastical images that could not exist otherwise (Life of Pi, Sucker Punch, to a lesser degree Alita: Battle Angel) but most of the time it feels like studios are using it to make things that should not exist

And yes, these character designs remain hideous, I’d almost certainly be more forgiving if they were easier to look at

That’s the first time I’ve heard anyone say something complimentary about Sucker Punch (and I hope it’s the last!).

It’s still embarrassing to have to admit it’s a great movie, but you can read my defense and those of a few other brave souls here

domino harvey wrote: Tue Jul 29, 2025 2:36 am I rewatched the much derided CGI demon fight from Spawn last night on YouTube and it didn’t fundamentally function much different than this trailer. There are exceedingly rare recent cases of filmmakers similarly utilizing a lot of CGI effectively to give us fantastical images that could not exist otherwise (Life of Pi, Sucker Punch, to a lesser degree Alita: Battle Angel) but most of the time it feels like studios are using it to make things that should not exist

And yes, these character designs remain hideous, I’d almost certainly be more forgiving if they were easier to look at

I guess what gets me about the sequels is the familiarity of the mistake they keep making. On top of all the effort already expended on a number of fronts to perfect motion capture technology, they spent years working on the underwater motion capture for these films specifically only to overload every scene with ugly character designs and overdetailed art direction. I was dragged to the second one by some friends (in 3D no less - and it was nominated for Picture, so I'm keeping an eye out for your review capsule) and there were a couple of moments when the lighting looked good - I was impressed by how well they were able to simulate soft light underwater - but all this effort is for naught when employed to illuminate an exhausting scene of 5 anime cat people frolicking amidst 200 different pulsating sea creatures. The mo-capped images were poorly composed and overstuffed with DETAILS DETAILS - for all the money spent, no one with decision-making authority internalized any of the lessons from the look or filmmaking process of the Star Wars prequels

I found this to be a very entertaining 3hrs but ultimately disappointing. Admirable for dropping F bombs, kinky sex, and consequences of violence to the blockbuster spectacle. Oona Chaplin steals every scene she’s in-but Cameron squanders his great powers as a filmmaker and basically repeats the battles from The Way of Water.

One gets the sense he has lost his enthusiasm for this project.

Probably doesn’t help he’s being sued again

I had honestly forgotten this was even coming out until reviews showed up.

Even my son, who's doing an MA in Advanced Visual Effects Compositing and who therefore has a much more pressing reason than me to see it, merely conceded that "it was OK". I don't think I'm going to regret not going with him.

(I saw the first two—in IMAX 3-D in both cases—but my memory of them evaporated almost as I was leaving the cinema.)