2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 2)

[Murdoch]

Before Sunset -- Linklater's best film

I think it is as well, I thought it miles above Sunrise which lacked the emotional climax of Sunset and it felt at times as if Linklater was struggling to progress the film. I've never been a fan of Hawke, but he played Jesse really well in Sunset giving him a maturity that suited the time that had passed between films. Sunset has one of the best bittersweet romantic endings, I'd actually put it in league with Brief Encounter, both create a great since of hope and melancholy for the characters. Plus, I love Julie Delpy, even sat through part of A Werewolf in Paris just because she was in it, I still regret watching that though. #-o

[solaris72]

That wasn't an exception. I saw the Twin Peaks pilot (not the 'European' version) in a bona fide cinema months before the show screened, so it counted as a 'film', not a TV episode.

Well, the pilots for each season of The Wire would premiere at the Senator Theatre here in Baltimore before airing on HBO.

[zedz]

You, the Living will be another high placer for me - I think I'll have more comedies on my list than for any decade since the thirties.

And since nobody's mentioned it yet, my other very high placing Hollywood film is likely to be Zodiac. Fincher grew up with this one and finally managed to find a balance between his technical facility and some genuine ideas.

[cysiam]

And since nobody's mentioned it yet, my other very high placing Hollywood film is likely to be Zodiac. Fincher grew up with this one and finally managed to find a balance between his technical facility and some genuine ideas.

Totally agree with you on this, something about it just seems to scream perfect film-making every time I watch it.

[colinr0380]

Plus, I love Julie Delpy, even sat through part of A Werewolf in Paris just because she was in it, I still regret watching that though.

Same here, though I also watched it because I had quite enjoyed Anthony Waller's previous film as a director, Mute Witness (with a "Mystery Guest Star" performance from Alec Guinness!), despite some over the top moments with a bombastic musical score. Sadly the bungee jump off the Eiffel Tower was the point at which I parted ways with the film (and I think it was poorly received by horror fans because of the CGI werewolves compared to the Rick Baker transformations of the original)

[Sloper]

Agreed on Zodiac - if I'd watched enough new films in the last ten years to participate, this would be my number one. I first saw it in a hotel room under the worst of conditions - in a state of physical, emotional shock and about as low as I've ever been - and it just completely occupied my mind for 150 minutes...and for some time after that. I've seen it four or five times and keep noticing new things. It's so rare to see a film which contains so much, and holds it all together so deftly. Head and shoulders above Fincher's other work.

[ptatler]

And since nobody's mentioned it yet, my other very high placing Hollywood film is likely to be Zodiac. Fincher grew up with this one and finally managed to find a balance between his technical facility and some genuine ideas.

Nobody's mentioned the banner year for film (Hollywood and otherwise) that was 2007 (2002 was also pretty good). I'd like to add my unwavering support for THE ASSASSINATION OF JESSE JAMES...

Domino: you've really sent me down a rabbit trail with this Louis Theroux guy. Until your post, I'd never heard of him. I'm gobsmacked. He does everything Sasha Baron Cohen claims to be doing only without the safe smokescreen of humor (though there is plenty of that, particularly in the editing). I hereby second the recommendation of the Nazi doc (which, for me, was only available via Youtube and similar sites). Forget the list project; this is STRONGLY RECOMMENDED as a civic duty.

[zedz]

While we're squabbling about television eligibility, I'd just like to note, for any brave or foolhardy voters around here, that the rules declare the Brasseye Paedophilia special eligible for the next round!

[Gropius]

While we're squabbling about television eligibility, I'd just like to note, for any brave or foolhardy voters around here, that the rules declare the Brasseye Paedophilia special eligible for the next round!

Hmm... that would probably be top 10 material for any TV list, but I don't recall it being sufficiently visually distinctive (despite the typically exquisite skews of pompous Newsnight-style graphics) to make a cinematic one. It seemed more hastily-constructed than the initial 90s episodes.

Something like Marc Isaacs's short Channel 4 documentary The Lift (now coming to Second Run DVD) might be a contender for mine.

[GringoTex]

I've got started on my 2000s watching with two films by directors I've never seen before:

What Time Is It Over There? - I had trouble reconciling the austere, severe mise-en-scene with the cutesy subject matter in this particular film. But this is a director I want to see more of.

Cache - My first Haneke film and I don't want to see another. He's the Spielberg of current continental European art cinema. He crawls up his own asshole just to take a sniff. I need to go watch a Pialat, any Pialat, to cleanse my palate.

[knives]

Cache was probably not the best place to start with Haneke. Time of the Wolf while weak may be the most comfortable place to start. The Piano Teacher and Code Unknown are also more easy to relate. You just walked into his Wild at Heart.
Also I don't understand your Spielberg comparison.

[Dr Amicus]

A few that will probably very high up my list:

La Antena - I don't know how widely this is got released, but Sapir's black & white fantasia / allegory is like Lang remade by Gilliam. Or not. Absolutely wonderful.

The Lawless Heart - One of the best British films of the decade as a young man's death affects family and friends.

Paris - Cedric Klapisch's hugely enjoyable comedy / melodrama / slice of life is like a Richard Curtis film done well.

Dracula: Pages From a Virgin's Gallery - apart from his short film about Rossellini, the only Maddin I've seen. Dracula retold as a ballet, with subtexts highlighted explicitly.

Not sure what's going to be at the very top - but Elephant, Vera Drake, History of Violence and Million Dollar Baby (this is when I duck...) are all strong contenders.

[Awesome Welles]

The Man Who Wasn't There is the Coens' second best film, (a good distance) behind Miller's Crossing. I've yet to figure out why it's been so overlooked, even among Coen fans.

Not sure I would consider it second best but I am with you on this, I think it's a hugely underrated film and will figure highly on my list.

Nobody's mentioned the banner year for film (Hollywood and otherwise) that was 2007 (2002 was also pretty good). I'd like to add my unwavering support for THE ASSASSINATION OF JESSE JAMES...

Absolutely spot on, 2007 was a fantastic year and I have nine films from that year on my short list; The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford, Zodiac, There Will Be Blood, Control, No Country for Old Men, Persepolis, The Bourne Ultimatum, The Diving Bell and the Butterfly, Eastern Promises. And if shorts were eligible Scorsese's wonderful ad The Key to Reserva. Others I enjoyed but probably won't make my list were In the Shadow of the Moon, My Winnipeg and still a few to see from this year on my part.

[life_boy]

And if shorts were eligible Scorsese's wonderful ad The Key to Reserva.

Shorts are always eligible...ads I'm not so sure about.

[thirtyframesasecond]

If I can make a recommendation for a film not yet mentioned and barely mentioned ever......Ivans XTC by Bernard Rose, which takes a Dostoyevsky novella and creates a moving treatise on mortality, with Danny Huston hypnotic as ever.

[Sloper]

Agreed, especially on Huston's performance; Peter Weller is also brilliant, hilarious and vile in equal amounts.

[Aki]

My swapsie is Generation Kill. David Simon and Ed Burns' (The Wire, The Corner) seven-part tv miniseries about the U.S. Marines First Recon Batttalion's story during the early stages of the Iraq War which is based on Evan Wright's book. Like The Wire, Simon and Burns takes a look at the individual and collective in an institution. We see the hierarchy / chain-of-command and the viewpoint of those at the bottom; the inefficient and unpredictable nature of war despite the advanced technology that tries to make warfare more efficient; etc. The documentary No End in Sight chronicled the incompetency of the Bush administration and in Generation Kill we see the incompetency further down the chain. It's fascinating to see the ugly game the Lieutenant Colonel and Major General play. Just as fascinating is seeing the entire process of the missions. I recommend trying to watch it using headphones or on a good setup because of the great sound design with humor coming in from the convos going on in the background and periphery.

I'm not too sure about The Corner making it on my list. I'm not a fan of the framing device, but anyone interested in Bubbles' story in The Wire should definitely seek this one out.


It's been a great decade for American cinema especially on the independent front and the greatest director to emerge is Ramin Bahrani. I'm surprised at the lack of talk on his films on these wonderful boards. I'm glad he's getting more press lately due to Goodbye Solo (haven't seen it yet) and last year's Chop Shop. My favorite film of his is Man Push Cart that takes part of its inspiration from the Myth of Sisyphus. It's one of the best film of this decade and should be considered in the future as one of the great Manhattan films. Chop Shop joins the ranks of Pixote and Los olvidados as one of the great films about kids and street life.

Shotgun Stories is one of the absolute best feature debuts in recent years. A+ filmmaking all across the boards from the production design to sound design to cinematography to editing to the acting. It's a story about the cycle of revenge between two sets of half-brothers in Arkansas. Highly recommended.

Jim McKay's Our Song is a fantastic low-key film about highschool-age girls in Brooklyn. If you liked Take Care of My Cat and Raising Victor Vargas, definitely see this.

The Assassination of Jesse James and Zodiac will be my highest ranking American films. Assassination is an extremely effective look at celebrity and myth / legend. They will be probably followed by Wendy and Lucy, There Will Be Blood, Man Push Cart, The 25th Hour (criminally underrated; Spike Lee's best non-documentary film since Malcolm X), Chop Shop, and James Gray's relatively overlooked crime film The Yards...

...I mean this as a compliment, Gray is a great craftsman. I think the ending is different in the Director's Cut (not too sure, I need to check and I'll report back). Also the color palette on the theatrical cut DVD has more purple which I really liked while the Director's Cut looked more like Two Lovers. Both versions are available on separate DVDs. My recommendation of this film is based on the older DVD, the theatrical cut, as I only skipped around the first half of the Director's Cut listening to the DVD commentary. Rounding up my top American contenders are: Maria Full of Grace, Junebug, Half Nelson, and You Can Count On Me.

American film is fine.

A couple of Claire Denis films will make my list - Friday Night and L'intrus. Speaking of moody films, other films sort of in the Claire Denis school (not that I'm saying she has directly influenced them) to look into are The Vertical Ray of the Sun with luscious cinematography from Mark Lee Ping-bin and two Lucrecia Martels - La cienaga and The Holy Girl. Martel's films stylistically remind me a little of Denis' films with their sound design and emphasis on editing. Martel's compositions are particularly striking. Speaking of Argentine film, Los Muertos is very strong, and Celine Murga's Ana y los otros is a really solid feature debut.

Kechiche's Games of Love and Chance is a really charming French film that takes place in the classroom and housing projects. There's a particularly hard hitting scene that includes racial tensions which elevated the film to a higher level. (Any French films from any decade besides this and La Haine that take place in urban settings or housing projects?) Terrific performances from its young cast. I read that Kechiche's The Secret of the Grain is supposed to be quite good.

A little, tiny French film that might place in the 45-50 range is The Grocer's Son. In ways, a loving tribute to the travelling grocer and his patrons in the French countryside. Just a really, really pleasant watch. This film is on the underrated DVD label The Film Movement.

An Italian film that I really was taken by was Golden Door with Agnes Godard as DP. The boat ride and Ellis Island sequences are standouts.

On the documentary front, a couple of must-sees, in my opinion are:
The Power of Nightmares
The Trap
Workingman's Death
Bus 174
Up the Yangtze
The Order of Myths

The Adam Curtis docs can be both found on the Internet Archive. Just found out that Nightmares is out on DVD as well.

Up the Yangtze is rather pedestrian in terms of structure and formal qualities (outstanding cinematography), but it makes a fantastic companion piece to Still Life. (I am aware of Jia's Dong.) It takes a look at class in contemporary China and the price of the Three Gorges Dam project. Heartbreaking.

Has anyone seen Vladimir Bortko's The Idiot? I'm thinking of checking that one out.

Is Fateless making anyone's list? I still haven't seen it.

[John Cope]

Just wanted to third that rec for ivansxtc. A great film with a performance for the ages by Huston. It is also concludes with a truly transcendent passage scored to Wagner's Liebestod which moves me tremendously every time I see it. It addresses death directly and treats the subject with great grace and tender seriousness.

[kaujot]

Bernard Rose deserves more work.

[Murdoch]

Finished L'intrus last night - my first Denis film - and it was both frustrating and gorgeous. This is a film I'll need to watch again, at first I was unsure how I felt about it, but after letting it sit in my head for a night and watching an interview with Denis about the film my appreciation for it has skyrocketed. This might actually make my top ten for this decade, going through the images in my mind and different interpretations of the scenes has caused me to see the film as a sort of puzzle, we are presented with a series of events and it is up to us to figure out how the characters and actions fit together. I loved the moody guitar score, created a certain ambiance which penetrated the film, and the way the score lingers after the credits finish, just fantastic. I'm very excited to dive into other Denis films now, this one has piqued my interest.

[swo17]

Is Soderbergh's K Street eligible for the list? This Netflix review has piqued my interest:

Boring. Do not send anymore in this series. I have enough politics on my plate. I don't need anymore. Warren K. Smith

[zedz]

I've got started on my 2000s watching with two films by directors I've never seen before:

What Time Is It Over There? - I had trouble reconciling the austere, severe mise-en-scene with the cutesy subject matter in this particular film. But this is a director I want to see more of.

Cache - My first Haneke film and I don't want to see another. He's the Spielberg of current continental European art cinema. He crawls up his own asshole just to take a sniff. I need to go watch a Pialat, any Pialat, to cleanse my palate.

If you want to reconcile the Pialat craving with the 00s theme, you could do much worse than Joachim Lafosse's Private Property. He's clearly a Pialat disciple (like so many of the most interesting French / Belgian filmmakers of the decade), but he handles the camera quite differently, and getting Pialat-level performances in any decade is not a talent to be sniffed at.

Cache is a fine place to start (and maybe finish) with Haneke. It's probably his most accessible and popular film, and I'm sure you've seen what he's about. I like some of his work for its formal qualities and despite Haneke's modishly cryptic message-mongering (for masochistic audiences who like their messages delivered in tiny print on the side of a poison pill), but I certainly sympathise with your aversion and I don't think it's anything to do with this particular film.

Glad you appreciated Tsai. Your next stop should probably be Goodbye, Dragon Inn. I think the R1 DVD also includes the short The Skywalk Is Gone, which provides the connective tissue between What Time Is It there? and the Wayward Cloud. The 'cuteness' of What Time may appear different when seen alongside the more Beckettian absurdism of most of his other films (which is the direction from which I approached it).

[Tom Hagen]

Swapsies: The Fog of War or Standard Operating Procedure, the two most aesthetically developed and politically crucial docs of the "truthiness" era, brought to us by one of our greatest filmmakers.

[denti alligator]

Swapsies: The Fog of War or Standard Operating Procedure, the two most aesthetically developed and politically crucial docs of the "truthiness" era, brought to us by one of our greatest filmmakers.

The Fog of War is up there, no doubt. But SOP was a major disappointment. You really think otherwise?

[reno dakota]

Some titles that will place high on my list:

Yi Yi (Yang, 2000) – This one may very well take the top spot on my list. It has already been much discussed and endorsed on the board, but it is an absolute must-see for this project (but we’ve all already seen it, right?).

Three by Kore-eda: Distance (2001), Nobody Knows (2004), and Still Walking (2008) – Only Nobody Knows has been released in R1, but the others are worth tracking down if you can find them. Distance is structurally complex and mysterious, and I think any fan of Ozu could easily enjoy Still Walking.

The Return (Zvyagintsev, 2003) – This one is a psychological minefield of a movie (and I mean that in a good way). The story involves a father’s attempt to get to know his two sons after being estranged from them for more than a decade. It’s full of tension, with a slightly menacing undertone, and it has some of the most gorgeous cinematography I’ve seen in years.

Revanche (Spielmann, 2008) – Another psychologically intense film, which begins as a sort of thriller before turning into something of a Dardenne brothers picture. The final half hour is truly breathtaking filmmaking.

Old Joy (Reichardt, 2006) – I seem to recall some discussion of this one on the board, but I cannot remember now what the general reaction was. Nonetheless, I think this is still Reichardt’s best film and a deeply affecting exploration of friendship worn threadbare by time and distance (both physical and emotional).

You Can Count on Me – The most astute film about adult sibling relationships that I’ve seen this decade, and still Laura Linney’s best performance. If you avoided this one because it looked like a Lifetime movie-of-the-week (and you could hardly be blamed, given the way that it was promoted at the time), then do try to catch it this round.

The Best of Youth (Giordana, 2003) – An incredibly absorbing family drama spanning nearly 40 years. It is six hours long, yes, but you’ll hardly care about that once you reach its emotional powerhouse of a conclusion.

And my swapsie for this round, The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada (Jones, 2005) – If you’re a fan of Cormac McCarthy, then be sure not to miss this one. It is certainly one of the most striking films I’ve seen about male friendship, loyalty and grief, and it is immensely entertaining as well.