criterionforum.org

I just hope Affleck gets to direct a Batman movie down the line.

I am imagining a scenario similar to Edgar Wright leaving Ant-Man where Snyder leaves the project "of his own volition" because of creative differences and production is delayed a few weeks so they can rework it to address some of the problems here with the new, probably unexciting and indistinctive talent they get to replace him.

Free Zack Snyder

They start production on Justice League in three weeks. That's way too soon to hit the brakes, IMO. Not when their schedule is really locked in with that many actors who will have other films.

I think people will (possibly over) praise Suicide Squad for bringing "fun and a sense of humor" to DC, and things will continue as scheduled.

Also, Terrio and Snyder are already on record as saying JL is a "lighter" film than BvS. Whether one believes that's in response to BvS or how it was always going to go is up for debate. Remember, they've had a rough cut of this film for nearly a year. A month ago the internet gave a ton of crap to Drew McWeeny's report that WB execs were concerned on how the film would be received, and he's been proven correct in that.

Also, my personal expectation was that they'd announce that Affleck is doing his Batman film after he finished production on Justice League, and that there was a nice open Fall 2018 slot in the DC film schedule there for it to slide into. Now, with reaction to the film mixed at best but everyone seemingly loving him as Batman, I practically guarantee it.

I don't think the problem is dark and serious vs. fun and sense of humor. It's really just good movie vs. bad movie. Nolan's films were dark and way too serious and still 2/3 of them were great. Daredevil and Jessica Jones are dark and mostly serious and they're the best superhero shows on tv.

If Snyder's films worked better then you'd never hear the dark and serious criticism.

captveg wrote:Nah, this is Snyder's baby for the long haul. It's all about $$, and it's gonna make plenty.

Of course it will - people will flock to this. However with a relentlessly grim tone will audiences want to stay with this universe for over a dozen films, a la Marvel? DC may be starting with a sprint when they should have prepared for a marathon.

Luke M wrote:I don't think the problem is dark and serious vs. fun and sense of humor. It's really just good movie vs. bad movie. Nolan's films were dark and way too serious and still 2/3 of them were great. Daredevil and Jessica Jones are dark and mostly serious and they're the best superhero shows on tv.

If Snyder's films worked better then you'd never hear the dark and serious criticism.

This. The reason why I think Watchmen is horrible is because it proved you can copy and paste the way a comic looks to the screen and somehow not carry over any of the heart of the subject matter even though the dialogue was translated likewise. If Snyder didn't spend so much time expanding every bit of action he'd fare pretty well as a storyteller.

One also gets the sense that Snyder's "reverence" is cheap--meticulously realizing Watchmen only to futz with the ending, for example.

So far, the movie is at 33% on Rotten Tomatoes. Even the positive reviews aren't that glowing of the film. WB/DC have a lot of money invested in this franchise. If this movie has the huge drop by week 2, I feel that Snyder will be replaced. WB can't risk Justice League bombing at the box office. There's already resentment towards WB/DC and Snyder for pushing and rushing these films. Like the recent Fantastic Four proved, resentment in the comic book world translates to bad box office and business. For every captive who likes Synder, Man of Steel and the way things are right now, there are hundreds that feel the complete opposite. Warner doesn't have to many assets they can dick around. If they don't right the ship, I can see these whole DC Comics project blowing up in their faces.

Let's actually see what the box office is in the first couple weeks. It could go either way. I just think that if they replace Snyder right now so short before JL begins that it'll bring an impression of panic that they'll never recover from.

Maybe that's what most want - for DC/WB to be crushed and disappear to bask in the Marvel dominance?

Feiereisel wrote:One also gets the sense that Snyder's "reverence" is cheap--meticulously realizing Watchmen only to futz with the ending, for example.

Futzing with the ending is one of the smarter thing that Watchmen does. As a *film* it needed the cleaner / less convoluted Manhattan solution.

Apparently Justice League started filming this week? Jason Momoa is tweeting from the set. Might just be second-unit stuff given all the big players are surely on worldwide publicity right now but seems a strong indicator that they're not changing one thing about their plans going forward.

captveg wrote:

Feiereisel wrote:One also gets the sense that Snyder's "reverence" is cheap--meticulously realizing Watchmen only to futz with the ending, for example.

Futzing with the ending is one of the smarter thing that Watchmen does. As a *film* it needed the cleaner / less convoluted Manhattan solution.

I realize the necessity of it, I suppose (one could also argue that restructuring the story to build to the ending would also have worked...though I'll not advocate for excessive creativity in blockbuster films), but I still think Snyder's reverence is thin to the point of dubiousness, little more than a buzzword to excite the 200k comics fans who follow the characters in print.

Still, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't curious based on the instensity of the negative reception.

The film was better than I was expecting, given the negative buzz coming out of Hollywood. Yes, it was a little sloppy, and could have been tightened up by 20 minutes.

I thought Batman and Bruce Wayne were very good. Superman was perfect. Alfred was funny and well played by Irons. Wonder Woman was not very well cast, in my opinion, but her role was good. Lex Luther was annoying. The

Spoiler

monster Doomsday

was scary and a good opponent.

For me, Amy Adams was the standout. She's amazing.

7/10

Trees wrote:The film was better than I was expecting, given the negative buzz coming out of Hollywood. Yes, it was a little sloppy, and could have been tightened up by 20 minutes.

I thought Batman and Bruce Wayne were very good. Superman was perfect. Alfred was funny and well played by Irons. Wonder Woman was not very well cast, in my opinion, but her role was good. Lex Luther was annoying. The

Spoiler

monster Doomsday

was scary and a good opponent.

For me, Amy Adams was the standout. She's amazing.

7/10

Are the spoilers true about...

Spoiler

Batman using guns to kill?

Luke M wrote: Are the spoilers true about...

Spoiler

Batman using guns to kill?

Yes.

Trees wrote:

Luke M wrote: Are the spoilers true about...

Spoiler

Batman using guns to kill?

Yes.

that's awesome

The movie was better than I expected. It still several big flaws in storytelling and storyline logic, but it's not as bad as critics make it our to be. It's very clear that this is Snyder's version of the characters. He is pretty straight forward in making a point of loosely following the source material and cherry picking what he liked best about several of the characters in the comic books and brought it to screen. There are several things that bug me big time, but mostly it was Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor. He was completely miscast. Just wish that they do a Terrence Howard/Don Cheadle thing in the future and take him out of the franchise completely.

Glad to hear you liked it, even with reservations. Saturday can't come soon enough!

Seems like there could be a fairly significant chasm forming between critics and the general public with this film. Currently at 30% on RT, but audience score 75%. That is not unheard of, but this film in particular seems like we could see a big divide between critics and regular audience. I guess we will know more after the weekend.

One should note that the audience score for something like this is greatly skewed by people who haven't seen the film yet and feel angry/alienated by the critical reaction. It was at something like 95% before yesterday.

Or it could be a Passion of the Christ type critic/audience response split (which is 40% / 80% on RT)

It could be that all the critical reviews sufficiently lowered everyone's expectations.

Don't discount the Superman-as-Jesus aspect playing well for the religious general audience in Middle America and across the globe.