512 Vivre sa vie

[otis]

I seem to recall a Godard interview in which he rhapsodises about an audible dolly shot in Preminger's Fallen Angel.

The most beautiful films in existence are the first sound films by Renoir, not only because they speak so beautifully with a southern French accent, but because of the fact that it is original sound. For me one of the ten most beautiful films is La nuit du carrefour by Renoir...they had to record the sound optically while shooting. That is why you notice the cuts so strongly...they could not mix and correct afterwards.

[dadaistnun]

Regarding Legrand discussion above, I'll link to a post of mine from the Pierrot le Fou thread -- the book I link to there has some analysis of Vivre's music.

Funny looking back at that....I was asking about the music in the Pierrot trailer and since then I've seen Made in USA in which that Schumann snippet appears, what, half a dozen times?

[evillights]

Then 18 years later he arranges a live quartet in Passion to play the Op. 59 No. 1 to the extent of completing whole phrases live to camera. A circle of post-classical deconstruction and reconstruction.

You're thinking of Prénom Carmen, no?

[elicross]

I haven't seen the Criterion version yet and would like to know one thing before I buy: does this have the old U.S. ending or the European ending? I have seen this on VHS and the Fox Lorber dvd and both have the truncated U.S. ending where

Spoiler

Nana gets shot, falls and the camera quickly pans away, and 'Fin' appears.

According to Silverman and Farocki in their SPEAKING ABOUT GODARD (in an entire chapter devoted to this film), the camera lingers on Nana for two minutes before 'Fin' appears (everywhere except the US version) upon original release. They state this more than once.

I see the Criterion running time is approximately 30 seconds longer than the Fox Lorber... but this doesn't add up to an extended two minute shot.

Which ending does the Criterion have?

[dad1153]

Going by your description it'd be the U.S. ending (no 2-minute lingering shot) but this is the first I've ever heard of "Vivre sa vie" having a different ending depending on release territory. Anyone else know? :-k

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

The BBFC classified two 35mm prints (one in '62 and another forty years later) and they both have the same running time as the Criterion edition. So if this extended ending exists, the UK didn't get it either. And the Adrian Martin commentary was recorded for the Australian DVD (which I haven't seen), suggesting they used the same cut as Criterion. Martin himself never mentions another ending.

[elicross]

So if this extended ending exists, the UK didn't get it either. And the Adrian Martin commentary was recorded for the Australian DVD (which I haven't seen), suggesting they used the same cut as Criterion.

I pulled up the Farocki book on google books to see if I remembered correctly and it appears I did. I can only surmise the authors assumed only the U.S. version had the truncated ending, when it appears all English translated versions had the truncated ending. This probably makes sense fianancially in that all English speaking countries would receive the identical cut.

It would then appear that the original French version had the extended ending, but most all English speaking critics saw (naturally) the exported version upon release (and later on VHS/DVD). This leaves me with several questions, however. Which version did the Germans and Italians see?

And, ultimately, what is the correct version per directorial intent? The domestic or international? Was this a rethink upon interantional release by the director (ala Mann's MOHICANS or Stone's infinitude of ALEXANDERS?)

Or dictated by producer/distributor/rightsholder fiat?

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

The French DVDs (two editions, both apparently OOP) have listed runtimes of 80 minutes, or about the same as the Criterion once PAL speedup is factored in. The German DVD is listed at 79 minutes -- the difference might just be a matter of rounding or different opening logos. Unfortunately the French film censor's website doesn't keep anything like the detailed records at the BBFC site, so I have no idea how long the original 35mm release version was.

[domino harvey]

It's been so long since I've even thought about this, but if memory serves, Godard wanted the long shot of Karina's body at the end and he was overruled by either a producer or distributor. To the best of my knowledge, the film has never been shown with the intended extended ending. It wouldn't surprise me if the two critics fell victim to the tendency to remember descriptions of deleted scenes as actually occurring in their memory of a film

[elicross]

If may have been an accident or improvised, but Godard shot more than one take from more than one angle with Nana herself in a very different position.

If you view the trailer and the film you will see two different versions of the same shot. This leads me to think the trailer may have part of the French extended ending and the US version has the different (edited) take or shot. I'd agree with Domino that memories are faulty 99.9% of the time, however the following quotes are lifted from the book (Speaking About Godard)---

Forward, page vii: The filmmaker and the film theorist constuct a dialogue around a close reading… as if the two were sitting at a flatbed (editing machine)…

Kaja Silverman, page 1: “The film ends with a two-minute long close-up of her ------, which has been brutally reduced to a few seconds in the American version.”

Harun Farocki, page 30: “Raoul drives away… only the camera remains with Nana, and for two long minutes it pays homage to her ‘goodness’.”

It appears if both of their memories are faulty, they are faulty at the exact same time right after they have again viewed the film.

I bring all this up for only two reasons. Dad1153 posted before in this thread that the ending was too sudden for him. I tend to agree. This is a 99.9% perfect film except for the panning away from Nana too quickly. It almost makes her throw-away life into an OUTSIDERISH throw-away film at the very end (although BOO is a highly entertaining throw away.) The second reason is that if Farocki, Silverman and I are correct, Criterion really let the ball drop by not diligently sourcing the extended cut and at least including the scene as an extra.

[domino harvey]

I hesitate to say this since the last time I dissed an author he showed up to bully me, but it wouldn't surprise me if they're both full of it, since their Godard book is probably the worst one out there. Let's save anger for Criterion if and when any real proof materializes of the cut ending's existance and commercial exhibition

[otis]

Does anyone have the French DVD for comparison? Or Alain Bergala's book Godard au travail : Les années 60, which might shed some light on the matter?

[dad1153]

^^^ French DVD you're talking about? Because if it is that ends it, there is no 'extended' final scene in any commercially available version of the movie in existence.

[Numero Trois]

I hesitate to say this since the last time I dissed an author he showed up to bully me,

Which thread was this?

[domino harvey]

I hesitate to say this since the last time I dissed an author he showed up to bully me,

Which thread was this?

The Frank Tashlin thread-- An author (whose name I won't mention since it'll show up in his Google Alert) showed up and berated me for a pretty innocuous comment on his book. His posts and account have since been deleted, but he also took it to PMs and it was a lot more embarrassing for him than it was for me, I can assure you of that

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

French DVD you're talking about? Because if it is that ends it, there is no 'extended' final scene in any commercially available version of the movie in existence.

I hear there's a VCD release in Sri Lanka, someone should check that out before we close the book on this.

[dad1153]

Had 90 minutes to kill last weekend so I popped this Blu-ray bad boy on with the Adrian Martin commentary track on. A good time was had by all (of me). =;

[elicross]

Just got a new printing of Roud's GODARD from Amazon (they had mis-priced it at $4.98 instead of $14.98). Interesting enough there is a two page spread of photos from the last scene including three additional angles of Anna K lying in the pavement (including a very high angle shot and a close up.) These might just be production photos... although it would be macabre to shoot production photos of the end from three additional angles as well as being Major Spoiler alerts?

It would definitely appear that additional takes from different angles were shot. How did Roud get the footage?