1930s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 3)

[zedz]

Is the UK set good. It's one of many I've been considering buying (maybe after I finally get the Fields set).

If you can get it cheap (and it's been absurdly cheap at times) it's absolutely worth it. The quality of the transfers varies according to source but are as good as you can hope for.

The downside, which is sort of petty, is that it's frigging enormous, and needlessly so, since so many of the films are duplicated in redundant colourized versions. It's also a nightmare to navigate in any rational manner, since the shorts are bundled thematically (or in many cases randomly). So, if, like me, you want to work through them chronologically, you'll have to research your own filmography, cross-reference that with where on the multitude of discs you can find each film, then allow for considerable down time while you wait for the interminable menus to load and play, over and over again, between films.

But, on the other hand, it's all there (with a handful of exceptions, many of which can be found on the TCM set).

[matrixschmatrix]

As I mentioned in the thread for it, I've just finished A Story of Floating Weeds- I'm not very well versed in Ozu, and the only one I've seen before was I Was Born, But...

Oddly, this one seemed much more opaque. I Was Born, But... seemed like the comedy turned largely on details of Japanese culture in the 30s that are immensely foreign, but perhaps because it was oriented around children, it also seemed as though it drew me into the culture in a way that while obviously I never understood it fully, I never felt distanced from the movie.

In Story of Floating Weeds, a lot of the cultural details that drive the plot didn't seem clear to me- particularly, the relative social scale and expectations that drove the various characters' hopes and expectations. Clearly, you get the idea that itinerant actors aren't very class, and that the father doesn't want his son stuck with his life (though that was obviously in part a convenient excuse for him to shirk his responsibilities) but overall I felt lost enough to be distanced- I think I need to know more about Ozu, that era in Japan, or both fully to appreciate the movie.

Of course, I Was Born, But... may also have seemed more successful because I watched in a theater, and could not distract myself the way I do at home.

[sinemadelisikiz]

As I mentioned in the thread for it, I've just finished A Story of Floating Weeds- I'm not very well versed in Ozu, and the only one I've seen before was I Was Born, But...

I'm not very well versed in Ozu either (I've seen maybe like two more than you) and it took me a while to warm up to him, but the film that did it was The Only Son. I'd be curious to see if you find this film any clearer, because I think its general story of a mother's sacrifice for her son (and subsequent disappointment) isn't completely foreign territory, and its moments of humor certainly shine through. This is an Ozu I'm certain will be on my list and I highly recommend it. But still, the first time I saw it was with my mom, so I might just have a sentimental spot for it.

In other news, after recently tracking down Jenny, I'm now deeply saddened that Marcel Carne wasn't more prolific during this decade.

[Michael Kerpan]

In SoFW, Ozu was portraying a type of intinerant theater that was already well on the way to obsolescence (due largely to the growing provincial popularity of movies). BTW --Naruse provided his own delightful take on the same theme a few years later in Traveling Actors.

[knives]

Is Molander the best Swedish director of the decade? I just got done with my second and it blew my completely out of the water, but in an entirely different fashion from Intermezzo. A Woman's Face plays to theater in such a strong a fascinating way that I'm stunned at it's traditionalist craft. God I hope there's more available on DVD.

[matrixschmatrix]

As I mentioned in the thread for it, I've just finished A Story of Floating Weeds- I'm not very well versed in Ozu, and the only one I've seen before was I Was Born, But...

I'm not very well versed in Ozu either (I've seen maybe like two more than you) and it took me a while to warm up to him, but the film that did it was The Only Son. I'd be curious to see if you find this film any clearer, because I think its general story of a mother's sacrifice for her son (and subsequent disappointment) isn't completely foreign territory, and its moments of humor certainly shine through. This is an Ozu I'm certain will be on my list and I highly recommend it. But still, the first time I saw it was with my mom, so I might just have a sentimental spot for it.

I'll take a look at that one when I get the chance. I didn't actually find that my experience with A Story of Floating Weeds turned me off from Ozu at all- I really love I Was Born, But..., so I got lucky and had that unlocking experience the first time- but it felt as though I had skipped to Joyce's Ulysses after falling in love with Dubliners. I can see that there's something that would mean something to me in there, but I can also see that it's going to take some more work to understand it.

Honestly, I'm not fully literate in silent film in general, I think- there's any number of them I love, but outside of slapstick comedies, I always feel as though I'm reading in a foreign language. I can understand it, I can feel it deeply, but I'm not fluent, so I'm always translating in my head. This Ozu gave me that feeling doubled, whereas I Was Born, But... seemed to connect more naturally than most.

(God, I'm afraid I'm going to get eaten alive for that last thing.)

[knives]

Hopefully no one will eat you for mature honesty. In all seriousness part of the problem might be that you started with one of his best films and than jumped to one while very good is not nearly as great. There's clearly other things at work, but you shouldn't beat yourself up for having the very popular opinion that The Story of Floating Weeds is less good than I Was Born, But... Maybe if you rewatch it after becoming more literate in Japanese culture and Ozu. If I get what your saying correctly than you simply don't know this aspect of Japanese society well and you shouldn't feel bad about that. This is an opportunity to learn.

The best I can do to help on that is to say these are professional actors in the very old school sense. They were trained in the art since they were kids and their families may have been in the trade for generations. The problem, which I remember the film communicating well, is that this trade is going out of style. I guess the American equivalent in this respect would be carnies who also lost their way of life to the cinema.

[matrixschmatrix]

Actually, Richie mentions in the commentary that Floating Weeds was an adaptation of an American story that was about carnies, so that seems like a good analogy. I think that vaudeville-esque feeling of a cultural artifact that wasn't going to be around for very long, which Ozu loved even though it may not actually have been very good, came across pretty clearly- where I ran aground was in the complicated web of expectations and obligations between the characters. The basic situation of a man who fathered a child and took off is pretty familiar, but it's difficult to get a handle on what the people around him thought about that behavior, how much his class status affected their thoughts, and the relative class status of Shinkichi and his mother.

I'm glad to hear that I Was Born, But... is so well regarded, though- for some reason I had it in my head that Floating Weeds was the much better regarded movie, and while obviously I don't always agree with that kind of consensus it bothers me when I can't figure out why people would think so.

[matrixschmatrix]

I'm finally watching the 10 Fischinger films disc, and if anyone liked them even a little bit on the computer or in youtube or whatever: order the goddamn disc. I have a projector, and the difference between seeing them on a tiny screen and four feet across is enormous, even bigger than it would be for a normal movie- watching it on the computer makes it feel like anything I would watch on youtube, an interesting toss-off that doesn't have any major impact. On the big screen I feel like I'm at a planetarium, watching the cosmos be created by an alien God.

I imagine the impact would be less on a normal TV than a projector, but seriously, watch these on the biggest screen you possibly can. I wish Optical Poem was on the disc, but Study no 7 has firmly cemented itself on my list now at the very least, and probably Kriese and no 6 as well (honestly, I think the main difference between 6 and 7 is that I like the music on 7 better.)

(I'm also noticing how devastating it is to these pieces to stop paying attention to them for a second- I've got Motion Painting no 1 on as I type this, and it's still enormously striking, but the sense of a process that I can follow is almost totally destroyed. and it becomes an interesting series of abstract images instead of something that's almost an abstract narrative.)

Wait, does Allegretto quality for this list?

[Murdoch]

I've been moving through the Lombard Glamor set and the films are really enjoyable and all, but the highlight was googling Love Before Breakfast and discovering this poster, just wonderful.

[swo17]

Is Molander the best Swedish director of the decade? I just got done with my second and it blew my completely out of the water, but in an entirely different fashion from Intermezzo.

I just realized that the Intermezzo you were referring to earlier is different from this, which is a '30s film readily available on DVD that also stars Ingrid Bergman. Where is the Molander available?

[knives]

It's available from the Ingrid Bergman in Sweden set recently put out by Kino. Here's the Amazon page. Damn thing's three dollars cheaper than when I bought it.

[Nothing]

First thought was that I couldn't possibly come up with a list of 50 favourites from the 1930s and, yet, a quick tally has given me 40 already, so have no fear I shall be here once the western project is over to annoy you with my indifference towards Lubitsch, Lang and Ozu (they really should offer a 'yawn' smiley)...

Oddities that strike me from the previous list are the relatively short shrift given to Partie de compagne and La bete humanite (both the equal of La grande illusion imho), the preference for The Scarlett Empress over Shanghai Express, the high placing of the unfunny Trouble in Paradise (not exactly surprising, but irritating!), but, most of all, the total Gone With the Wind snub (snobs?). J'Accuse!, City Girl and The Edge of the World are also bizarrely absent, although I'm guessing these may make an appearance second time around...

[knives]

You don't like Lubitsch, but find Gone With the Wind essential? I should have guessed as much, but I would think that the guy who has said that he won't be voting for Stagecoach because of it's racism would do the same for that POS.

[matrixschmatrix]

Uh, oh, Nothing's here, and he's brought his shocking, too-advanced-for-our-bourgeois-tastes opinions with him! I'd better call in the rest of the anti-Communist brigade to help snuff out this menace before he says dismissive but poorly defended things about more directors I love.

It is funny to think that on this board, liking Gone With the Wind is the contrarian opinion, isn't it?

[NABOB OF NOWHERE]

It is funny to think that on this board, liking Gone With the Wind is the contrarian opinion, isn't it?

Uh uhhh, Just ain't fittin'..ain't fittin'

[tojoed]

Do you think they could make the Westerns project a little bit longer? [-o<

[Nothing]

You people [-X

p.s. Just spotted Gone With the Wind hiding away at 63 - pardon duly granted - but... James Cagney is gonna put a cap in your ass

[Wu.Qinghua]

Do you think they could make the Westerns project a little bit longer? [-o<

Lol ...

Oddities that strike me from the previous list are ... most of all, the total Gone With the Wind snub (snobs?)

I hadn't even thought of giving 'Gone with the wind' a spin again. Can you be a bit more explicit on your appraisal the film? Is it because of Hattie McDaniel?

[swo17]

Hey, I actually like GWTW as well, owing at least 95% to Vivien Leigh, whose character is so oblivious and self-absorbed that she at one point daintily traipses over a field of wounded soldiers because she needs the doctor to come to her house right then and take care of her friend. I like the idea of a petty melodrama playing in the foreground while people are losing their homes and their lives all around. In fact, where some see this film as a celebration of the racist South, I think it speaks to something else entirely--the selfishness and sense of entitlement that sustained slavery for so many decades. Scarlett isn't a racist that sits on her porch lamenting how blacks have integrated into society; she lives peaceably among them, but in a relationship where they do all the grunt work and leave her to live the life of a queen. Frankly, I find the implied rape and the plot-conveniencing deaths of a few main characters more problematic than any hints of racism in the film. All that being said though, I have no room for this (or plenty other films I would have assumed were shoo-ins four months ago) on my list.

[tojoed]

Oddities that strike me from the previous list are the relatively short shrift given to Partie de compagne..... Gone With the Wind snub (snobs?). J'Accuse!, City Girl and The Edge of the World are also bizarrely absent, although I'm guessing these may make an appearance second time around...

I agree with you about "Partie", it's #1 on my list.
Can't agree about "City Girl", which has too much William Fox and not enough F.W. Murnau, but many others here love it. "Tabu" is Murnau's undoubted masterpiece of the thirties , in my view.

[matrixschmatrix]

City Girl will definitely place highly for me, and I suspect one reason it may appear on this list and not the previous one is the ready availability of the MoC blu. Of course, for anything Schloss Vogelod onwards, I think mediocre movies are more exceptional than masterpieces amongst Murnau's work (Finances of the Grand Duke, I'm looking at you) so Tabu will certainly place as well.

That actually reminds me, I've only seen the Milestone edition, and I have the MoC one now- I need to watch that.

[Wu.Qinghua]

All that being said though, I have no room for this (or plenty other films I would have assumed were shoo-ins four months ago) on my list.

That's one reason why I had never thought of having a look at GWTW, until Nothing has brought it up this morning. I admit I doubt I'd like the movie by now, as I've always had problems relating to it in positive ways in the last decades, but I'd really like to hear why Nothing picked GWTW out for complaining about its absence in the face of the listings of multiple films of Lang, Lubitsch and Ozu.
(That is, no trolling intended on my side. Honestly.)

[Murdoch]

Outside of the city scenes (specifically Kate's apartment, with the train passing by the window) City Girl felt very slight to me, Tabu will probably place on my list though.

Speaking of Gone With the Wind, I actually hadn't seen it until a TCM broadcast toward the beginning of this list, and I was surprised by how quickly the 4-hour running time went by. Leigh embodies O'Hara perfectly, without her the film really would've been a drag.

Spoiler

There are a few grating parts, one that sticks out to me is the relatively humorous scene involving Thomas Mitchell's death where he falls off a horse and the film quickly cuts to his tombstone, obviously not funny in subject matter but more due to how his death just seems thrown in to add to the melodrama and it's one of those scenes that's been endlessly parodied that it was strange for me to see it played earnestly.

[swo17]

GWTW

There are a few grating parts, one that sticks out to me is the rather humorous part involving Thomas Mitchell's death where he falls off a horse and the film quickly cuts to his tombstone, obviously not funny in subject matter but more due to how his death just seems thrown in to add to the melodrama.

This is what I was getting at about plot-conveniencing deaths. I think the father's death is clearly meant to parallel the daughter's death later in the film, but I feel like both of the deaths are just thrown in there in an attempt to ratchet sympathy from the audience through as little effort as possible. This may just be a pet peeve of mine, but I am really resistant to characters dying in stories unless it either feels like it has to be done to show how high the stakes really are, or because that's what the story is about. If your story is a frothy romcom or something and you kill someone off toward the end just to add a level of gravitas, I'm not buying it. In any case, all these deaths do for me in GWTW is teach me that anyone who ever goes horseback riding is going to die in a few minutes.