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I totally agree with you, it's a combinaison of both issues : the weird grading in low lit areas/shots and the encode which can't properly handle it.
I'd however add that there might be a third issue : the darker elements look pretty smooth, as if brighter elements retained their high frequencies but darker ones didn't. In some intermediate (in terms of lighting) shots, faces for instance are quite smooth, as if some grain management was applied but depending on the brightness of the content.

I posted a few of the Clément shots here : https://twitter.com/Testsbluraycom/stat ... 2925831171

tenia wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:46 pm I totally agree with you, it's a combinaison of both issues : the weird grading in low lit areas/shots and the encode which can't properly handle it.
I'd however add that there might be a third issue : the darker elements look pretty smooth, as if brighter elements retained their high frequencies but darker ones didn't. In some intermediate (in terms of lighting) shots, faces for instance are quite smooth, as if some grain management was applied but depending on the brightness of the content.

Yeah, could be. I honestly can't tell what might have happened here besides the problematic compression, or whether this might be salvageable given the uncompressed master or not. Clearly some overly zealous digital manipulation.

tenia wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:46 pm I posted a few of the Clément shots here : https://twitter.com/Testsbluraycom/stat ... 2925831171

I'm at a loss for words...

And here are the 2 full reviews :
https://testsbluray.com/2021/09/30/test ... et-lheure/
https://testsbluray.com/2021/09/28/test ... est-finie/

La Fin du monde (Abel Gance, 1931) Blu-ray came out not long ago. Let’s do the asking regarding English subtitles; well, are there any?

L.A. wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:11 am La Fin du monde (Abel Gance, 1931) Blu-ray came out not long ago. Let’s do the asking regarding English subtitles; well, are there any?

I can confirm that the main feature does indeed have English subtitles. The extras do not. There are also French subtitles for the hard-of-hearing, which frankly covers everyone trying to listen to the film’s murky soundtrack.

As far as I can tell, the version of the film itself is the same as that presented on the old Gaumont DVD, the different runtime explained by the latter’s PAL speedup. When the Blu-ray was first announced, one of the extras “TBC” was an alternative print of LA FIN DU MONDE – presumably the shorter copy held in the Národní Filmovy Archiv, Prague. This has not been included, which is a shame. But what the Blu-ray really needs is a summary of Gance’s original scenario and/or screenplay, complete with any available production stills to help fill in the gaps. Gance assembled an initial print of 5250m (about 190 minutes), whereas the version released in cinemas was 2800m (about 101 minutes). Gaumont’s print is 95 minutes long, so not even as long as the latter.

The inclusion of AUTOUR DE LA FIN DU MONDE (1931) is a welcome extra on the Blu-ray, as its only previous release was as part of a compilation DVD some years ago in an issue of the French journal 1895. As a “documentary” record of the production, it is less coherent than the feature film itself – offering random scraps of behind-the-scenes footage, test shots, and cut scenes. But it is worth watching for one shot alone: the close-up of Antonin Artaud screaming into camera, with hallucinatory lights behind him and a warping effect in front of the lens. It's just about the most astonishing close-up Gance ever filmed. A glimpse of genius amid the mournful wreckage of LA FIN DU MONDE.

^ La Clé du Ciel, thank you.

Be aware however that the restoration is particularly limited in basically its first hour, despite being a recent 2k resto from a 4k scan. However, it is a 4k scan of 2 different elements, the OCN and a countertype (I think it either translates as "safety print" or dupe neg), and I suppose this first half is based on the lower element and it just looks borderline SD and blurry. The last 30 minutes or so feels like switching from an awful DVD to a brand new restoration.

I also noticed that TBC for the alternate shorter version for the Gance film. Wondering why couldn’t they add it, surely you’d think Gaumont and Národní filmový archiv have good relations so shouldn’t be a problem? Also Eureka wanted the Czech version of Straight Shooting for the Two Films by John Ford release but without success.

So what exactly is the damn problem? Why even announce these?

L.A. wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:05 pm surely you’d think Gaumont and Národní filmový archiv have good relations so shouldn’t be a problem?

I wish I knew more about the background to the release to answer this. It may be that Gaumont simply did not have the means or interest to pursue a more complex presentation of surviving material. As discussed here, this is also what happened with Gance’s J’ACCUSE (1938), where Gaumont did not pursue the possibility of a longer restoration for their Blu-ray release.

Regarding the Czech copy, a few years ago I contacted the Národní filmový archiv to ask about LA FIN DU MONDE. I was told their print was in too fragile a condition for study, so I was never able to see it. At 1700m (c.61 minutes), it may not contain anything that isn’t already in the Gaumont print – hence it not being deemed worthy of a digital transfer for the Blu-ray.

A potentially more interesting alternate print would be the US release version of the film, THE END OF THE WORLD (1934). Though it uses the French-language version as its basis (the planned English-language version was seemingly never completed in 1931), it at least offers evidence of how the film was handled by foreign distributors. THE END OF THE WORLD circulated on various “grey market” DVD-Rs, but I’ve no idea where the original print came from. It did have a few fragments not in the Gaumont print (as well as a huge amount of additional stock footage, and a ghastly “prologue”). The only example I particularly remember is the film’s very first music cue, the Dies Irae theme. You can hear the whole theme at the start of the US version, whereas you only get the last couple of notes in the Gaumont print.

For me, the most interesting alternate would have been any surviving copies of the German-language version of the film, DAS ENDE DER WELT. I recently discovered that at least one archive holds material from this version, a fact that no source has ever mentioned. It does make you wonder what else it out there.

It would be nice to think any/all surviving versions of LA FIN DU MONDE could come together in one package, but it may never happen. Besides, this wouldn’t be a film by Abel Gance unless it were whelmed in unending complications that forever postponed its ultimate presentation…

La Clé du Ciel wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:15 am It would be nice to think any/all surviving versions of LA FIN DU MONDE could come together in one package…

Let’s hope for such a miracle.

Feb. 2022 releases for the Gaumont DVD "à la demande" (MOD) line includes Anna (Lattuada, 1951; French dub only) and La Loi (Dassin, 1959).
Source:
https://www.dvdclassik.com/forum/viewto ... 8#p2932268 - Nov. 8, 2021 post and subsequent posts.

Before/after restoration videos up for Judex and Tih-Minh:
https://www.fnac.com/a16278512/Judex-Bl ... 512|BL1|L1
https://www.fnac.com/a16278517/Tih-Minh ... ld-Blu-ray

Stefan Andersson wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:58 pm Before/after restoration videos up for Judex and Tih-Minh:
https://www.fnac.com/a16278512/Judex-Bl ... 512|BL1|L1
https://www.fnac.com/a16278517/Tih-Minh ... ld-Blu-ray

I’m seeing the links to the physical media, but not seeing any restoration videos at those links.

DeprongMori wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:07 pm

Stefan Andersson wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:58 pm Before/after restoration videos up for Judex and Tih-Minh:
https://www.fnac.com/a16278512/Judex-Bl ... 512|BL1|L1
https://www.fnac.com/a16278517/Tih-Minh ... ld-Blu-ray

I’m seeing the links to the physical media, but not seeing any restoration videos at those links.

Hi!

On the page for the physical media, below the cover image, you should see an arrow pointing screen right. Click on the arrow. A new window opens, with a video screen and an arrow pointing screen right. To play video, click on the arrow (or mouse over the screen to show, below the image, at left, another Play arrow. Look right for full screen option.) Hope this helps. I wrote a detailed explanation to make it all understandable. I just tried the arrows on both pages and had no problems.

Both restorations are absolutely gorgeous.

Are the new restorations tinted? I ask as the most recent restorations of FANTOMAS and LES VAMPIRES eliminated the variety of tints present on earlier versions (save for blue nighttime scenes). I am curious if any information about these choices is available, or about the restorations more generally.

La Clé du Ciel wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:22 am Are the new restorations tinted? I ask as the most recent restorations of FANTOMAS and LES VAMPIRES eliminated the variety of tints present on earlier versions (save for blue nighttime scenes). I am curious if any information about these choices is available, or about the restorations more generally.

No info about tinting in the TIH-MINH entry in the 2020 Ritrovato catalogue, downloadable here:
https://festival.ilcinemaritrovato.it/e ... recedenti/

JUDEX was shown in black & white in the 2021 Festival Lumière in Lyon. Restoration info from the site: "Restauration 4K par Gaumont au laboratoire L’Image Retrouvée (Bologne-Paris) avec l'aide du CNC, d’après un négatif nitrate Gaumont et complété d’une copie nitrate teintée conservée par Lobster Films." Links to pages for specific films seem to be dead on the Lumière site, I copied this info from the live page for JUDEX a while back.

The page for Judex is still up : http://www.festival-lumiere.org/manifes ... judex.html
I only gave the 2 titles a quick look, I'm still catching back the late I got from covering Lyon Film Festival but should have gave them a deeper spin within the next couple of weeks (hopefully next week end). From what I recall, I mostly saw B&W stuff and don't recall having seen tinted scenes but it might very well be my memory.

tenia wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:43 am Both restorations are absolutely gorgeous.

Anticipation is killing me. Can’t wait for these to ship—and fingers crossed they don’t get held up by international mail contingencies.

Stefan Andersson wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:58 pm Before/after restoration videos up for Judex and Tih-Minh:
https://www.fnac.com/a16278512/Judex-Bl ... 512|BL1|L1
https://www.fnac.com/a16278517/Tih-Minh ... ld-Blu-ray

Finally watched the restoration videos of Judex and Tih Minh— they are astounding! Glad they’ve got English subtitles on the features. I wish they had them on the supplements as well — though each release seems to have only one ~15 minute supplement. Wonder whether Kino will eventually pick these up.

One thing I’m curious about: The Grand Lyon Film Festival lists the Gaumont 4K restoration of Judex at 6h5m (365 minutes), but the FNAC Blu-ray of the same restoration lists a running time of only 300 minutes.

Lancelot du Lac bluray test:
https://testsbluray.com/2021/11/23/test ... ot-du-lac/

DeprongMori wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:51 am
One thing I’m curious about: The Grand Lyon Film Festival lists the Gaumont 4K restoration of Judex at 6h5m (365 minutes), but the FNAC Blu-ray of the same restoration lists a running time of only 300 minutes.

And the Judex run time comes to 383 minutes on this page: http://www.festival-lumiere.org/program ... films.html
- to 365 minutes here: https://www.gaumont.fr/fr/film/Judex.html
- to 300 minutes here: https://www.dvdfr.com/dvd/f169063-judex.html

Judex's Gaumont BD is 199 min 46 + 183 min 37. Tih Minh is 199 min 16 + 185 min 34. I haven't checked the frame rate for Judex but Tih Minh is 20fps (both titles are encoded at 24fps).

Coming back to these :
Tih-Minh is indeed 20fps, Judex is 18fps (ABCC-type repetition). None have tints.

I have not checked all my +40 Gaumont BDs, but at least Danton, À nos amours, La Beauté du Diable and Elena et les Hommes are not working.

tenia wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:51 pmIt's... complicated. They do, but you need to call them at this French phone number (01 46 43 20 00), contact them through this page, or try their Tweeter account.
However, with the pandemic, the person in charge of these replacements is working from home, so it's said to best to wait until September to ask for replacements.

Is there an update on this matter? Is it still worth getting in touch through the contact page?