Re: Mr. Bongo Films
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:12 pm
I wonder what the source is for these (same as Ruscico -- or something else)?bigP wrote:Two Boris Barnet films in November: Outskirts & By the Bluest of Seas
I wonder what the source is for these (same as Ruscico -- or something else)?bigP wrote:Two Boris Barnet films in November: Outskirts & By the Bluest of Seas
Did the transfers on these turn out well?bigP wrote:Two Boris Barnet films in November: Outskirts & By the Bluest of Seas
Somewhat belatedly, it looks as though I can finally answer this, thanks to this video interview and an English paraphrase that's just been sent to me by Tom Gordon:MichaelB wrote:So my question is this: given that the film really does look absolutely fine in 1.85:1 (the camera barely stops moving, so any detail that might not be visible in one frame will swiftly appear in the next), might it not be the case that instead of being cropped at the sides, the restoration was actually opened up at the top and bottom? It can't be a Super 35 situation, as the format didn't exist back then - but might Has and Sobocinski have shot the film in matted 1.85:1, and then, for reasons unknown, reformatted it to Scope for cinema screenings? (Possibly because cinemas at the time were more likely to be equipped for Scope than 1.85:1, not a widely used ratio in eastern Europe at the time).
Anyway, this certainly explains why it looks fine in 1.85:1, whereas normally it's only too obvious if a Scope film has been cropped at the sides. And it also means that Sobociński appears not to be Poland's answer to Vittorio Storaro.At 7:20 [Sobociński] says that he and Has decided right away that the 4:3 aspect ratio wouldn't work for the film, so he thought of using the full width of the 35mm film (in order to utilise spherical lenses) with the intention of matting to widescreen. He says the soundtrack occupies 2.5 mm, so he decided to utilise this for the image. As such, it was shot open-matte, but an expanded open-matte incorporating the soundtrack strip area for the image, creating a sort of Polish Vistavision (only with the image oriented normally, rather than running sideways).
Normal 35mm film frame is 18 x 24 mm, i.e. 4:3 or 1.33 : 1. With that 2.5 mm extra: 18 x 26.5, i.e. 1.47 : 1.
That's almost exactly the VistaVision negative ratio (24 x 36mm or 1.5: 1). As noted, the 1.85:1 framing standard was not common in Poland at the time of the film's release, so it was presumably cropped to 2.35:1, meaning that the new BluRay transfer actually offers more image vertically than the original matted cinema print. Of course, it would still be very interesting to actually compare the new transfer with the framing of the 35mm copy (and there are still a few unanswered questions: if 1.85:1 was not yet in common usage, surely Has would have composed the frame for 2.35:1 without necessarily protecting for an expanded frame?).
Interesting - so that means if I understand it correctly that Has and Sobociński effectively made a Super 35 film a decade before the process was devised!MichaelB wrote:Somewhat belatedly, it looks as though I can finally answer this, thanks to this video interview and an English paraphrase that's just been sent to me by Tom Gordon:MichaelB wrote:So my question is this: given that the film really does look absolutely fine in 1.85:1 (the camera barely stops moving, so any detail that might not be visible in one frame will swiftly appear in the next), might it not be the case that instead of being cropped at the sides, the restoration was actually opened up at the top and bottom? It can't be a Super 35 situation, as the format didn't exist back then - but might Has and Sobocinski have shot the film in matted 1.85:1, and then, for reasons unknown, reformatted it to Scope for cinema screenings? (Possibly because cinemas at the time were more likely to be equipped for Scope than 1.85:1, not a widely used ratio in eastern Europe at the time).
Anyway, this certainly explains why it looks fine in 1.85:1, whereas normally it's only too obvious if a Scope film has been cropped at the sides. And it also means that Sobociński appears not to be Poland's answer to Vittorio Storaro.At 7:20 [Sobociński] says that he and Has decided right away that the 4:3 aspect ratio wouldn't work for the film, so he thought of using the full width of the 35mm film (in order to utilise spherical lenses) with the intention of matting to widescreen. He says the soundtrack occupies 2.5 mm, so he decided to utilise this for the image. As such, it was shot open-matte, but an expanded open-matte incorporating the soundtrack strip area for the image, creating a sort of Polish Vistavision (only with the image oriented normally, rather than running sideways).
Normal 35mm film frame is 18 x 24 mm, i.e. 4:3 or 1.33 : 1. With that 2.5 mm extra: 18 x 26.5, i.e. 1.47 : 1.
That's almost exactly the VistaVision negative ratio (24 x 36mm or 1.5: 1). As noted, the 1.85:1 framing standard was not common in Poland at the time of the film's release, so it was presumably cropped to 2.35:1, meaning that the new BluRay transfer actually offers more image vertically than the original matted cinema print. Of course, it would still be very interesting to actually compare the new transfer with the framing of the 35mm copy (and there are still a few unanswered questions: if 1.85:1 was not yet in common usage, surely Has would have composed the frame for 2.35:1 without necessarily protecting for an expanded frame?).
Based on the evidence of the transfer, that seemed to me to be the most obvious explanation - but it seemed so wildly unlikely that I discounted it at the time. But it does make sense.GaryC wrote:Interesting - so that means if I understand it correctly that Has and Sobociński effectively made a Super 35 film a decade before the process was devised!
Sort of, but Alfred Hitchcock got their first by another decade. All of the Universal films starting with The Birds were shot just like The Hourglass Sanatorium, with full aperture in use. I watched The Hourglass Sanatorium recently and found the 1.85:1 framing to be perfect, with no attempt made to compose within the internal 2.35:1 area. I wonder why Has and Sobociński seemingly didn't realise that the film would have to be anamorphised for prints and be shown cropped to 2.35:1 in Poland?GaryC wrote:Interesting - so that means if I understand it correctly that Has and Sobociński effectively made a Super 35 film a decade before the process was devised!
Where does it say the latter two (or three) are DVD-only? It just says "alongside", but doesn't specify if they're on DVD, Blu-ray, or both. In fact since it says "DVD and Blu-ray release" for Falstaff, surely it would imply the same for the others? Either way, I'm definitely considering Falstaff if it's a restored edition, and will think about getting the others if the transfers are equally as impressive!John Hodson wrote:Their press release runs:
To celebrate the centenary of Orson Welles’ birth, Mr Bongo Films is delighted to announce the release of a brand new restored 50th Anniversary Edition of his masterpiece Falstaff Chimes at Midnight.
One of the most radical and groundbreaking of all Shakespeare adaptations, Chimes at Midnight was Orson Welles’ favourite of his films and will be in cinemas from 1 May 2015 as part of the 100 years of Orson Welles celebrations. This will be followed by a DVD and Blu-ray release on 29 June 2015 alongside the first UK release of Welles’ debut feature Too Much Johnson which was amazingly rediscovered and restored in the last decade, the superb Immortal Story starring Jeanne Moreau and Orson Welles and the gripping thriller The Stranger, the first film after World War II to show footage of concentration camps starring Edward G Robinson, Orson Welles and Loretta Young.
If I read it right, the latter two are DVD only.
It should be pointed out that the print KINO used is actually missing about twenty-five seconds of footage resulting in an awkward jump three-quarters into the film...Drucker wrote:For what it's worth, the Kino version of The Stranger is excellent and my eyes felt it did a great job matching the 35mm print I saw at Film Forum earlier this year. Maybe blacks could be a little richer, but overall another great Library of Congress-based transfer.
I've just double checked the full press release; The Stranger *will* be on Blu and DVD; Immortal Story is the only DVD only.rapta wrote:Where does it say the latter two (or three) are DVD-only? It just says "alongside", but doesn't specify if they're on DVD, Blu-ray, or both. In fact since it says "DVD and Blu-ray release" for Falstaff, surely it would imply the same for the others? Either way, I'm definitely considering Falstaff if it's a restored edition, and will think about getting the others if the transfers are equally as impressive!John Hodson wrote:Their press release runs:
To celebrate the centenary of Orson Welles’ birth, Mr Bongo Films is delighted to announce the release of a brand new restored 50th Anniversary Edition of his masterpiece Falstaff Chimes at Midnight.
One of the most radical and groundbreaking of all Shakespeare adaptations, Chimes at Midnight was Orson Welles’ favourite of his films and will be in cinemas from 1 May 2015 as part of the 100 years of Orson Welles celebrations. This will be followed by a DVD and Blu-ray release on 29 June 2015 alongside the first UK release of Welles’ debut feature Too Much Johnson which was amazingly rediscovered and restored in the last decade, the superb Immortal Story starring Jeanne Moreau and Orson Welles and the gripping thriller The Stranger, the first film after World War II to show footage of concentration camps starring Edward G Robinson, Orson Welles and Loretta Young.
If I read it right, the latter two are DVD only.
EDIT:
This post on their site confirms Falstaff on Blu-ray and DVD, Too Much Johnson on Blu-ray and DVD, and The Immortal Story on DVD only. However, there's no mention of The Stranger...which is odd. I thought The Immortal Story was going to be coupled with Too Much Johnson? Maybe they meant The Stranger will be DVD-only?
Thanks, my response from Mr Bongo was literally just a link back to the article on their website! Glad you could clear that up. I also asked them whether the other films would be restored like Falstaff is, but they also ignored that question.John Hodson wrote:I've just double checked the full press release; The Stranger *will* be on Blu and DVD; Immortal Story is the only DVD only.rapta wrote:Where does it say the latter two (or three) are DVD-only? It just says "alongside", but doesn't specify if they're on DVD, Blu-ray, or both. In fact since it says "DVD and Blu-ray release" for Falstaff, surely it would imply the same for the others? Either way, I'm definitely considering Falstaff if it's a restored edition, and will think about getting the others if the transfers are equally as impressive!John Hodson wrote:Their press release runs:
To celebrate the centenary of Orson Welles’ birth, Mr Bongo Films is delighted to announce the release of a brand new restored 50th Anniversary Edition of his masterpiece Falstaff Chimes at Midnight.
One of the most radical and groundbreaking of all Shakespeare adaptations, Chimes at Midnight was Orson Welles’ favourite of his films and will be in cinemas from 1 May 2015 as part of the 100 years of Orson Welles celebrations. This will be followed by a DVD and Blu-ray release on 29 June 2015 alongside the first UK release of Welles’ debut feature Too Much Johnson which was amazingly rediscovered and restored in the last decade, the superb Immortal Story starring Jeanne Moreau and Orson Welles and the gripping thriller The Stranger, the first film after World War II to show footage of concentration camps starring Edward G Robinson, Orson Welles and Loretta Young.
If I read it right, the latter two are DVD only.
EDIT:
This post on their site confirms Falstaff on Blu-ray and DVD, Too Much Johnson on Blu-ray and DVD, and The Immortal Story on DVD only. However, there's no mention of The Stranger...which is odd. I thought The Immortal Story was going to be coupled with Too Much Johnson? Maybe they meant The Stranger will be DVD-only?
Any information as to whether Falstaff will have English subtitles? The past releases had very unclear sound, hence subtitles are essential for this film.John Hodson wrote:I've just double checked the full press release; The Stranger *will* be on Blu and DVD; Immortal Story is the only DVD only.rapta wrote:Where does it say the latter two (or three) are DVD-only? It just says "alongside", but doesn't specify if they're on DVD, Blu-ray, or both. In fact since it says "DVD and Blu-ray release" for Falstaff, surely it would imply the same for the others? Either way, I'm definitely considering Falstaff if it's a restored edition, and will think about getting the others if the transfers are equally as impressive!John Hodson wrote:Their press release runs:
To celebrate the centenary of Orson Welles’ birth, Mr Bongo Films is delighted to announce the release of a brand new restored 50th Anniversary Edition of his masterpiece Falstaff Chimes at Midnight.
One of the most radical and groundbreaking of all Shakespeare adaptations, Chimes at Midnight was Orson Welles’ favourite of his films and will be in cinemas from 1 May 2015 as part of the 100 years of Orson Welles celebrations. This will be followed by a DVD and Blu-ray release on 29 June 2015 alongside the first UK release of Welles’ debut feature Too Much Johnson which was amazingly rediscovered and restored in the last decade, the superb Immortal Story starring Jeanne Moreau and Orson Welles and the gripping thriller The Stranger, the first film after World War II to show footage of concentration camps starring Edward G Robinson, Orson Welles and Loretta Young.
If I read it right, the latter two are DVD only.
EDIT:
This post on their site confirms Falstaff on Blu-ray and DVD, Too Much Johnson on Blu-ray and DVD, and The Immortal Story on DVD only. However, there's no mention of The Stranger...which is odd. I thought The Immortal Story was going to be coupled with Too Much Johnson? Maybe they meant The Stranger will be DVD-only?
I'd assume no subtitles unless explicitly confirmed.kekid wrote:Any information as to whether Falstaff will have English subtitles? The past releases had very unclear sound, hence subtitles are essential for this film.