2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 2)

[Murdoch]

La Moustache - What begins simply as a silly tale of a man perplexed when neither his girlfriend nor friends notice that he shaved off his moustache quickly leaps into a story of paranoia, doubt, and madness. I suppose this is in line with my Under the Sand choice, but unlike that film this one creates an ambiguity about who is mad: is it the friends who the moustache-less man accuses of pulling a cruel practical joke when they tell him he never had a moustache (despite multiple evidence in the film to suggest he did), or is it the man whom the friends fear for his sanity with his wild claims of fantasy moustaches?

I loved this movie, it takes a ridiculous concept and crafts it into a suspenseful psychological drama about distrust in a relationship, it will definitely make my list.

[GringoTex]

The Holy Girl - La Cienaga was Martel's Renoir and this is her Hitchcock. She gives free reign to her Latin psychosexual Catholic morality, which was only hinted at in La Cienaga. And the Hitchcock suspense comes from her laying out the sin in the first 15 minutes of the movie. Her hotel setting is one of the great hotel settings in cinema. The greatest female director I know of since Akerman. And if I prefer La Cienaga to this one, it has nothing to do with Martel- I just prefer Renoir to Hitchcock. Both are making my list.

[puxzkkx]

La Moustache - What begins simply as a silly tale of a man perplexed when neither his girlfriend nor friends notice that he shaved off his moustache quickly leaps into a story of paranoia, doubt, and madness. I suppose this is in line with my Under the Sand choice, but unlike that film this one creates an ambiguity about who is mad: is it the friends who the moustache-less man accuses of pulling a cruel practical joke when they tell him he never had a moustache (despite multiple evidence in the film to suggest he did), or is it the man whom the friends fear for his sanity with his wild claims of fantasy moustaches?

I loved this movie, it takes a ridiculous concept and crafts it into a suspenseful psychological drama about distrust in a relationship, it will definitely make my list.

I thought this was underbaked in every way. What started as an interesting gimmick became a way for the director to avoid making a real film... in the end it just felt like a narrative cop-out. And the quadruple-fake out ending is just ridiculous and should have been cut.

The greatest female director I know of since Akerman.

Did you like La Captive?

[Murdoch]

La Moustache - What begins simply as a silly tale of a man perplexed when neither his girlfriend nor friends notice that he shaved off his moustache quickly leaps into a story of paranoia, doubt, and madness. I suppose this is in line with my Under the Sand choice, but unlike that film this one creates an ambiguity about who is mad: is it the friends who the moustache-less man accuses of pulling a cruel practical joke when they tell him he never had a moustache (despite multiple evidence in the film to suggest he did), or is it the man whom the friends fear for his sanity with his wild claims of fantasy moustaches?

I loved this movie, it takes a ridiculous concept and crafts it into a suspenseful psychological drama about distrust in a relationship, it will definitely make my list.

I thought this was underbaked in every way. What started as an interesting gimmick became a way for the director to avoid making a real film... in the end it just felt like a narrative cop-out. And the quadruple-fake out ending is just ridiculous and should have been cut.

I thought the ending was a great close, although I don't know what you mean by "avoid making a real film", it looked like a film to me!
Anyways I'm a sucker for psycho-thrillers that never resolve themselves.

[LQ]

Prometheus' Garden- Holy shit.
I....have no idea what I just saw. All I know was that it was the most crazily hypnotic, bizarre, unique and psychedelic 20-odd minutes locked in a delirious Claymation dream that I've ever spent. And as someone who has never touched drugs before...once it was over, I felt an insane urge to pick up something extremely hallucinogenic, immediately.
What an achievement. Stunning.
life_boy, thank you for the recommendation!

[puxzkkx]

La Moustache - What begins simply as a silly tale of a man perplexed when neither his girlfriend nor friends notice that he shaved off his moustache quickly leaps into a story of paranoia, doubt, and madness. I suppose this is in line with my Under the Sand choice, but unlike that film this one creates an ambiguity about who is mad: is it the friends who the moustache-less man accuses of pulling a cruel practical joke when they tell him he never had a moustache (despite multiple evidence in the film to suggest he did), or is it the man whom the friends fear for his sanity with his wild claims of fantasy moustaches?

I loved this movie, it takes a ridiculous concept and crafts it into a suspenseful psychological drama about distrust in a relationship, it will definitely make my list.

I thought this was underbaked in every way. What started as an interesting gimmick became a way for the director to avoid making a real film... in the end it just felt like a narrative cop-out. And the quadruple-fake out ending is just ridiculous and should have been cut.

I thought the ending was a great close, although I don't know what you mean by "avoid making a real film", it looked like a film to me!
Anyways I'm a sucker for psycho-thrillers that never resolve themselves.

I think that the lack of resolution could have been inspired with the right handling, but for me it just felt like the director lost interest in how the film was going and just let the whole thing fall to bits.

[Michael]

The Holy Girl - La Cienaga was Martel's Renoir and this is her Hitchcock. She gives free reign to her Latin psychosexual Catholic morality, which was only hinted at in La Cienaga. And the Hitchcock suspense comes from her laying out the sin in the first 15 minutes of the movie. Her hotel setting is one of the great hotel settings in cinema. The greatest female director I know of since Akerman. And if I prefer La Cienaga to this one, it has nothing to do with Martel- I just prefer Renoir to Hitchcock. Both are making my list.

I concur. But just wait till you see The Headless Woman, which I saw last week. It's really just as magnificent as La Cienaga, maybe even better. I still feel the need to revisit the film though.

[zedz]

Kings and Queen – I think enough evidence has mounted up now to establish that Desplechin is not for me and I can safely avoid his future films. I saw My Sex Life when it came out and thought it was unremarkable. I tracked down Esther Kahn because it sounded interestingly weird and several people had pumped it up into some sort of gonzo masterpiece. It wasn’t (a masterpiece, that is – it was weird, but only because of the misfit casting / bad acting, which I didn’t see as some stroke of amazing ironic directorial genius). Skipped this, but felt obliged to see A Christmas Tale which, it turns out, is pretty much the same film.

The films share the same, pointless stylistic affectations – the dissolves and choppy editing, the mushy muddled muzak. Nothing wrong with them, but in my opinion they don’t serve any expressive purpose, they’re just there to mark Desplechin’s territory.

It doesn’t help that I find the melodrama ho-hum and poorly modulated, the humour lame (a manic druggie lawyer? – how fresh, how hilarious) and Desplechin’s uncritical indulgence of his male protagonists (especially those portrayed by Amalric) lazy and annoying. The films are fitfully entertaining, but I’m afraid I fail to see anything approaching greatness here.

(Maybe I just have the wrong frame of reference, since I found Desplechin's fawning about the genius of Eastwood, Tarantino and Shyamalan in the extras completely alienating.)

Jeez, I really need to watch a 00s film I actually like. . .

[Michael Kerpan]

Jeez, I really need to watch a 00s film I actually like. . .

You'll never make 50 this way.

Too bad so many wonderful 00s films from Japan still don't have subbed versions. ;~}

(Christmas Tale will also not be on any list of favorites I make)

[LQ]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't enjoy Desplechin. I've only seen A Christmas Tale but that was so aggressively irritating to me that I wouldn't dream of subjecting myself to another, especially now after reading zedz' rundown. I appreciate that others get something out of his movies but he's certainly not for me, either.

[Michael]

A Christmas Tale is the only Desplechin film I've seen. Actually I saw it last night (Blockbuster stores carry it). I thought it was wonderful and I'm still thinking about the characters today. I don't know what your issue with the druggie lawyer, zedz. Druggies are everywhere - lawyers, pilots, mothers, presidents, fetuses. I never got the impression that the lawyer existed for the sake of being a druggie - to add further drama to the tale. I grew up with a dad - drunk at every holiday table - rambling, screaming, crushing my mom's foot to pieces so of course the film hit home very much for me. The family's reaction to the lawyer was so jawdroppingly perfect. And what about that daughter of Marcello Mastroianni? I couldn't help falling for the Marcello in her, she looks so much like her dad - the dreamy melancholy and beauty she inherited from him and she infused the film with that rare perfume. So yeah, that added a lot to the film experience for me. The ending is perfect - it refuses to wrap up with a pretty Christmas bow.

[zedz]

I don't know what your issue with the druggie lawyer, zedz.

Sorry it if was unclear: I was talking about the 'zany' druggie lawyer played by Hippolyte Girardot in Kings and Queen. I didn't even remember that Desplechin recycled that schtick in A Chrustmas Tale.

And don't worry Michael K, my 'top 50' is already three times what I need and I intend to cheat next time by rewatching a film that I already like!

[Michael]

Sorry for overlooking that, zedz. One of the sons in A Christmas Tale is a drunk/drug addict, whose sister made sure the family banished him for good.

[Michael Kerpan]

And don't worry Michael K, my 'top 50' is already three times what I need and I intend to cheat next time by rewatching a film that I already like!

This week I got to re-watch twwo recent favorites that our (gene all summer long) twins had not yet seen -- FENG Xiaogang's If You Are the One and Kankuro Kudo's Shonen merikensack (the name of a punk rock group whose name translates to Brass-knuckle Boys). both have a shot at making it into my top 50 (especially the former -- which might be the best comic-romantic drama of the decade).

[Michael]

I also revisit some of my 2000s faves. Some of them are now "once faves", including my swapsie Come Undone. I think I'm moving into a different phase of my life - the whole coming of age thing doesn't do anything for me anymore no matter how wonderful it is.

[GringoTex]

4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days - Exploitative cynical s&m porn thinly disguised as an uninspired derivative Dardennes knock-off European art film.

I mean,

Spoiler

the slut will fuck a masochist so her friend can get an abortion, but but then leaves her by herself bleeding in bed to attend a dinner party so that her boyfriend won't stop fucking her?

Somebody should have aborted the Cannes jury.

[Sloper]

I think you've misunderstood her reasons for going to the dinner party - if her motives were as you suggest then she doesn't exactly do very well, does she? And the film would have been so much less interesting if the relationship between the two women hadn't been so ambiguous. And I could understand you calling it exploitative (in the same way that, for instance, The Life of Oharu is exploitative), but...porn? Really? Did I see an edited version?

[Shrew]

This week I got to re-watch twwo recent favorites that our (gene all summer long) twins had not yet seen -- FENG Xiaogang's If You Are the One and Kankuro Kudo's Shonen merikensack (the name of a punk rock group whose name translates to Brass-knuckle Boys). both have a shot at making it into my top 50 (especially the former -- which might be the best comic-romantic drama of the decade).

Really? Feng Xiaogang? I've seen his 'prestige' stuff Assembly and Banquet, which are pretty miserable, and Big Shot's Funeral, which has sporadic fun ideas but never amounts to anything and can never even decide what exactly it wants to be. Not to mention the poor English speaking performances. So a comic-romantic drama just sounds like another confused slapdash to me, but perhaps his skills have improved a bit? I imagine I'll be able to pick it up in China soon.

[knives]

Waking Life
Someone from Limits of Control owes Linklater a check. If this one doesn't make my list it is only because of that stupid, ugly, horrible retoscope. If there a more hideous way to make a picture? Retoscope by handheld this movie proves. Was there any reason they couldn't animate this without the nausea inducing handheld roto? As far as the animation itself though, sublime. He takes advantage of the animation in subtle ways, showing images and exposing dreams. That may be my favorite part. In between all the philosophy and monologues is a strange lucid dream. Its a pop culture dependent dream, but for once that might be a good thing. For example the rant in the jail I initially took as a simple stance against imprisonment and a call for reform. While that stands true, with a little research I found out that the rant was taken from Hubert Selby's The Room. Other weasely things like that, one of my favorite being the characters from Before Sunset talking about reincarnation, make what could have been a poor philosophy 101 class into a complex and rich look into an individuals psyche. In a way this makes for a Virginia Wolf novel come to film. We find out the history, life, and personality of a character through the tiny things in his life. For this case it's books, movies, and the odd case of poetry. I don't see myself watching this even once a month, but I do want to see again (multiple times even) just to examine the ever living hell out of it. I usually don't like purely intellectual exercises, even though many of my favorites most people would find as just that, but this seems unique in that regard and definitely deserves a watch.

[swo17]

I also revisit some of my 2000s faves. Some of them are now "once faves", including my swapsie Come Undone. I think I'm moving into a different phase of my life - the whole coming of age thing doesn't do anything for me anymore no matter how wonderful it is.

One of the joys of the list project for me is having the excuse to rewatch so many favorites that I often haven't seen since they came out (and on my nice big shiny new plasma to boot). Except of course when I realize I no longer like said films. :-s

[puxzkkx]

4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days - Exploitative cynical s&m porn thinly disguised as an uninspired derivative Dardennes knock-off European art film.

I mean,

Spoiler

the slut will fuck a masochist so her friend can get an abortion, but but then leaves her by herself bleeding in bed to attend a dinner party so that her boyfriend won't stop fucking her?

Somebody should have aborted the Cannes jury.

I thought this was decent but overrated. Mungiu shows some really good use of tension (the dinner party scene had me on the edge of my seat - and I don't think the reasons for going to said party were as simplistic as you think - and there were some impressive cuts (the trains going in opposite directions is quite memorable). But I don't think this film succeeds as some kind of epic political statement, it really is just a pretty good claustrophobic drama, imo. About 3/4 of the way in I could sense that Mungiu was looking for a way to end the film, and the "let's never talk about this again" look-into-the-camera thing was far too glib and hokey for a film such as this and brought the entire thing down quite a few notches. For a director who showed an impressive sense for ambiguity (both in narrative and character) earlier in the film this seemed like the most obvious, cop-out way of ending it. And while Marinca was really good, the other actors were pretty awful - Vasiliu was just atrocious and Ivanov gave a blunter performance than this kind of film needed.

[Michael Kerpan]

Really? Feng Xiaogang? I've seen his 'prestige' stuff Assembly and Banquet, which are pretty miserable, and Big Shot's Funeral, which has sporadic fun ideas but never amounts to anything and can never even decide what exactly it wants to be. Not to mention the poor English speaking performances. So a comic-romantic drama just sounds like another confused slapdash to me, but perhaps his skills have improved a bit? I imagine I'll be able to pick it up in China soon.

I hated Banquet overall -- and considered Big Man's Funeral fun but minor. Assembly I never saw.

On the other hand, I loved World Without Thieves and liked both Be There or Br Square and Sorry Baby quite a bit. So, I don't think it is a matter of "improving skills" -- but rather one of some material being better suited to Feng's particular talents.

[Yojimbo]

Kings and Queen – I think enough evidence has mounted up now to establish that Desplechin is not for me and I can safely avoid his future films. . . .

maybe I'll put my video recording of it on the long finger, so!

[colinr0380]

A really nice talk through of Spielberg's A.I. at the Shooting Down Pictures blog.

...and Looney Tunes: Back In Action.

[GringoTex]

I think you've misunderstood her reasons for going to the dinner party - if her motives were as you suggest then she doesn't exactly do very well, does she? And the film would have been so much less interesting if the relationship between the two women hadn't been so ambiguous. And I could understand you calling it exploitative (in the same way that, for instance, The Life of Oharu is exploitative), but...porn? Really? Did I see an edited version?

Major spoilers. Stop if you haven't seen it:

Then what were her reasons for going to the dinner party? She has a new boyfriend who she fucks and who gives her money. He's quite the asshole. And she leaves her best friend bleeding in bed to make an appearance at the birthday of the boyfriend's mother who she's never met. I just can't grasp the motivation, other than to titillate the audience.

By porn, I mean titillation for its own sake. The scene where the girls completely submit to the abortionist's rape fantasy -- where he's given the stage to preach to them, lecture them, dominate them verbally, and then rape them -- I found highly objectionable. The blond is headstrong -- she fights everybody in a position of power -- and then she succumbs to this rape fantasy with barely a protest. It's not logical and no different than a porn film set-up. At least in a porn film, you only have 5 minutes of set-up before the money-shot. This film gives you 45 minutes of set-up and then cowards away from the money-shot.

As for the political implications of this film: you get a close-up of the fetus staring at the camera but nothing of the sexual pleasure that led to it. It's all very chaste. It's a Republican wet dream.