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I think some require more assessment of the benefits of region encoding. If region encoding did not exist it would make the industry very different indeed, and most likely not for the better. Region encoding reinforces territorial agreements, which makes it easier for labels to compete in smaller markets. If region encoding disappeared it would most likely lead to a breakdown of the territorial system, and as a result increasingly the likelihood of single worldwide releases of titles coming from monopolising all-encompassing labels. I do not think it is likely that it will be labels with the quality of Eureka that will find themselves in the position of being in charge of a monopoly. If you really want the MoC release, in this day and age where the Blu-ray HD standards are actually more or less the same throughout the world, then is it really that much of a hardship to get hold of a multi-region player to enjoy them?

Region coding also deprives the consumer of the right to choose, particularly those who are unable to play multi-region.

Robert, the problem is here is the fact that MoC did not ask for the region lock, but Kino did. Therefore, Kino should have done its utmost to ensure that it met its side of the bargain, especially as region locking is not standard practice for Kino. Kino does not deserve a pass purely on that basis.

The undeniable truth now is that Kino's Metropolis now has a competitive edge over the other releases, defying legal agreements, not gentlemens' ones. A contract has been broken and there is no practical way to remedy this - I'd say that Kino should be rightly criticized for it and it has to grin and bear it.

If you take the territorial aspect out of the DVD/Blu-ray industry, you will immediately face major licensing issues, not least with music rights owners. At present we exist in a situation where licensors and music rights holders around the world will generally consider any sales outsides of the specified territories as exports, and most publishers will accept the relatively small loss or gain they will make to imports or exports from this activity. In the UK the PRS are very fussy about where you sell your products (they also insist on Region 2 encoding and CCS encryption when their titles are used), and they strictly limit export to the US in particular. US publishers on the other hand always seems to be a lot less concerned about where their product goes, or region locking and encryption.

Imagine the situation where they take the territorial aspect out of film licensing. Most titles, even silents with modern scores (although not apparently this particular edition of Metropolis) will require a degree of licensing from some form of music Publisher. If the music rights are still represented on a territorial basis, and thus there are many publishers for the same material all over the World, how are you going to arrange clearance to use their titles, and administer the subsequent royalties? It would be a nightmare to organise.

Even in the event that Kino have operated in a deliberately underhand manner, which I will not suggest that they have, I do not think that an open public forum such as this is the place to settle it. I can see that the practical upshot of the issue is that Kino's error has shut Eureka out of the Region A player owning American market, and do I understand the frustration.

skuhn8 wrote:Priceless. Do their other region-coded blu's have a similar display?

Pretty sure they all have that exact wording, though others say "Drat!" or "Fiddlesticks!", etc. instead of "Gadzooks!"

Surprised to not see anyone post pics here yet, but Matt865 over at the Blu-ray forum has posted pictures of his copy of the steelbook. It looks really sweet!

And to think.... If they weren't forced to region encode I could have had a choice. What a stellar package.

I'm locked into Region A, but I bought the steelbook anyway- I can watch the DVDs now, the blu ray is an incentive to get a region free blu-ray player, and I got an awesome t-shirt. Win/win/win.

Even in the event that Kino have operated in a deliberately underhand manner, which I will not suggest that they have, I do not think that an open public forum such as this is the place to settle it. I can see that the practical upshot of the issue is that Kino's error has shut Eureka out of the Region A player owning American market, and do I understand the frustration.

Maybe you're right that this is not the best place to air this, but at the same time the forum does allow for scrutiny and accountability which would not exist otherwise. Kino needed to be called on this and now needs to learn from this and ensure this does not happen again. If not for forums and Facebook, would Kino still be at great pains to apologise for their mistake? They'd probably greet it with an indifferent shrug.

I'm glad that you understand the frustration, but it is worse than you think: not only are MoC and other distributors locked out of Region A markets, but on a practical level Kino now has access to all three markets. Their release not only threatens MoC's potential sales - suppose a Russian distributor plans to sell Metropolis in the near future, are fans of the film in Russia going to wait when they can get a good reasonably priced copy much sooner? How will that impact the distributor's sales? I'm not talking actual sales - it's the principle that's the most important thing.

Bleddyn Williams wrote:Surprised to not see anyone post pics here yet, but Matt865 over at the Blu-ray forum has posted pictures of his copy of the steelbook. It looks really sweet!

The picture of the combination set looks as though there's only one DVD in there, while the DVD release has two discs- is that right? Is there are third disc hiding in the combo set?

doc mccoy wrote:I'm glad that you understand the frustration, but it is worse than you think: not only are MoC and other distributors locked out of Region A markets, but on a practical level Kino now has access to all three markets. Their release not only threatens MoC's potential sales - suppose a Russian distributor plans to sell Metropolis in the near future, are fans of the film in Russia going to wait when they can get a good reasonably priced copy much sooner? How will that impact the distributor's sales? I'm not talking actual sales - it's the principle that's the most important thing.

I take the point, but I think the chances are that if someone was going to release the title in Russia, it would have been slated up and out to coincide with the rest of the worldwide releases. If you could not get it in Russia within a reasonable time of the original release, the chances are that the real fanatics would start looking to abroad to get it anyway. Region locking does not really change that situation. I would hazard saying that the MoC release probably already covers that market anyway, and there are very few labels that would want to attempt to clear up the remains. Either way, there seems to be an inherent conflict in wanting to open up the market so that everyone can release everywhere regardless of territory, and want a label like Eureka to continue high quality releases. I find it hard to see how Eureka could compete being the main quality label adrift in a tide of mediocrity.

The set looks wonderful indeed; if only I wasn't so indifferent to the film itself. In spite of the Region-coding fiasco, this should (hopefully!) still be a moneymaker for MoC.

Just to get back to the actual film for a moment, I have a feeling that the new DVD has been converted to run at 24 fps on the MoC (I think this was the same for the original Arte broadcast too). I am guessing that the blu-ray is presented natively at 24, but I do not actually have a player yet to check (!).

matrixschmatrix wrote:The picture of the combination set looks as though there's only one DVD in there, while the DVD release has two discs- is that right? Is there are third disc hiding in the combo set?

Very good question: the special pre-order for the steelbook expressly said "The set comes with 3 discs, 1 x Blu-ray and 2 x DVD", but if you look for instance at Moviemail, they describe it as "2 discs", which for me reads 1 blu + 1 dvd. What worries me more is that I always seem to find even for the normal DVD edition only 1 disc mentioned. If that's indeed true, it would be bad news and now - for a change - early buyers of the MoC might have the right to feel cheated. It would certainly be less than optimal to have a film of that length with two different audio tracks and a 50-minute documentary on one single dvd (especially considering that "Nosferatu" was 2-disc). But as for now, I still hope that this is just an error in the announcement; if not, I hope for the wonders of the latest dvd encoding technology...

My checkdisc of the MoC DVD was encoded for NTSC. Given that it was clearly a final (or near-final) version, as it had menus etc, I assume this was a deliberate strategy to keep the music pitched correctly.

MoC often encode in NTSC if that was the format of the SD master, but in this case they would have had an HD source - so they could easily have done it in PAL if they'd wanted to.

If it does end up only being one BD and one DVD, I doubt they crammed all the extras onto the DVD, it's probably only the film-only "Disc One" of the two-disc DVD. Which is definitely false advertising if so, considering that it seems quite a few people bought this without means for playing the BD.

mfunk9786 wrote:If it does end up only being one BD and one DVD, I doubt they crammed all the extras onto the DVD, it's probably only the film-only "Disc One" of the two-disc DVD. Which is definitely false advertising if so, considering that it seems quite a few people bought this without means for playing the BD.

My check disc/pre-release review has all the features on one disc. I am just checking whether it is NTSC though - the potential of this great interests me.

mfunk9786 wrote: Which is definitely false advertising if so, considering that it seems quite a few people bought this without means for playing the BD.

Speaking of a 3-disc edition when it's only 2 in the end is false advertising in any case, extras or not. An official statement or explanation would be helpful, though, before we start the next round of bitching, only this time against the other company....

I am staggered that while I have noticed many many of the tiniest changes in this film, I somehow managed to completely miss the fact that the DVD is encoded in NTSC. Perhaps this is due to the fact that I would have never have suspected this would happen with a UK release, but I was struggling to figure out how they were covering up the missing frame. I am not sure that I like that decision.

Bleddyn Williams wrote:Surprised to not see anyone post pics here yet, but Matt865 over at the Blu-ray forum has posted pictures of his copy of the steelbook. It looks really sweet!

Those pictures confirm that the dual-format release (and presumably also the BD-only release) is spine #16.

These images confirm that the steelbook is indeed only two discs (1 blu, 1 dvd), not three.

Not necessarily, the third disc could be behind the booklet.

swo17 wrote:

skuhn8 wrote:Priceless. Do their other region-coded blu's have a similar display?

Pretty sure they all have that exact wording, though others say "Drat!" or "Fiddlesticks!", etc. instead of "Gadzooks!"

Yeah that "Fiddlesticks" on the Profound desires of the Gods blu-ray really cracked me up

mfunk9786 wrote:Not necessarily, the third disc could be behind the booklet.

I got my steelbox this morning and can confirm there are two discs - one DVD (with all extras) and one Blu.

TheGodfather wrote:

swo17 wrote:

skuhn8 wrote:Priceless. Do their other region-coded blu's have a similar display?

Pretty sure they all have that exact wording, though others say "Drat!" or "Fiddlesticks!", etc. instead of "Gadzooks!"

Yeah that "Fiddlesticks" on the Profound desires of the Gods blu-ray really cracked me up

I'm hoping the next generation says "Zedz!" or "Michael Kerpan!"

Les Yeux Sans Visage wrote:

mfunk9786 wrote:Not necessarily, the third disc could be behind the booklet.

I got my steelbox this morning and can confirm there are two discs - one DVD (with all extras) and one Blu.

that`s a bit strange though since I thought that the dvd-only release was a 2 discer?if so, why doesn`t the dual format release have both dvd`s?

Sorry if my post was confusing - I mean the DVD disc has the film and all the extras!