Kino

[justeleblanc]

So I took it upon myself to write a nice letter to Kino expressing my concerns over the "combing" and "ghosting" problems and I got this in return:

Yes, we're well aware of this problem, and hopefully it will change soon. I will let our owner know that this is a recurring complaint that can't be ignored.

So do with that what you will.

I'm sure you all checked out the beaver's review of Mabuse.

Just to add my own opinion - I suspect there are only a handful of people who 'know' what this release should look like - so after that it depends on personal preference. I think the Kino has had some brightness boosting - I think the Eureka has had some black-level boosting. One removes damage marks the other heightens sharpness. From the captures I like the softer look of the Kino. I am still waiting for my copy to arrive. What bothered me about the Eureka was the audio - so I will post again after I get, and watch, my Kino version. The other issue I am still working on is the time - is the Kino taken from a PAL source? or the Eureka from an NTSC source? - I suspect the former and the 'combing' Gregg noticed may be from incorrect standard transfer. More will be added to these comments as we can derive answers. At least now you can visually see the differences. Overall the Kino release would be considered a triumph for that distribution company (and their past record).

[Ledos]

I don't know if the Beaver review has been edited, but the text I'm reading there now is a little different to your quote:

Just to add my own opinion - I suspect there are only a handful of people who 'know' what this release should look like - so after that it depends on personal preference. I think the Kino has had some brightness boosting - I think the Eureka has had some black-level boosting. One removes damage marks the other heightens sharpness. From the captures I don't mind the softer look of the Kino. I am still waiting for my copy to arrive. What bothered me about the Eureka was the audio - so I will post again after I get, and watch, my Kino version. The other issue I am still working on is the time - is the Kino taken from a PAL source? or the Eureka from an NTSC source? - I suspect the former and the 'combing' Gregg noticed may be from incorrect standard transfer - typical of Kino. More will be added to these comments as we can derive answers. At least now you can visually see the differences. Overall the Kino release would be considered a triumph for that distribution company (and their past record), but the Region 2 PAL has too many superiorities.

The differences are the - typical of Kino comment and the conclusion but the Region 2 PAL has too many superiorities.

[justeleblanc]

Looks like Gary edited it.

And it looks like he also edited the scorecard, which if anyone noticed did have Eureka and Kino at a tie for image.

[yoshimori]

The copy I have [of Color of Pomegranates] is not entirely, erm, legitimate shall we say - don't tell anyone though...

I have english, japanese and russian subtitles but I can't be sure that these are on the Japanes dvd.

I just received the r2j. It looks great, btw, but it has only (removable) Japanese subs. Any idea where I can get those English subs timed for this version?

[Darth Lavender]

Firstly, greetings, I'm new here so please let me know if I happen to break any sort of forum ettiquete.

Secondly, to the question, mentioned in the title: can anyone tell me if Kino's DVDs of Warning Shadows and Richard III suffer the interlacing artefacts so common to their DVDs? Are there any other issues with these DVDs I might want to know about?
(I generally avoid Kino, since (i) discovering that the atrocious interlacing on my Die Nibelungen was not just a problem with my TV playing NTSC DVDs (tried it on my computer, and it looks even worse) and (ii) discovering that there's plenty of other companies which release these movies with the original intertitles (particularly important to me, since I'm trying to learn German so watching German Expressionist films in English is kind of a wasted opportunity for me,)) but, in this case, I found through a search of this very forum that Warning Shadows is one of those silents without intertitles (unfortunately, I couldn't find information on the picture quality, hence my question.)

[HerrSchreck]

At least acknoweldge the poor guys work!

[Scharphedin2]

At least acknoweldge the poor guys work!

Thanks, Schreck...

Firstly, greetings, I'm new here so please let me know if I happen to break any sort of forum ettiquete.

Secondly, to the question, mentioned in the title: can anyone tell me if Kino's DVDs of Warning Shadows and Richard III suffer the interlacing artefacts so common to their DVDs? Are there any other issues with these DVDs I might want to know about?
(I generally avoid Kino, since (i) discovering that the atrocious interlacing on my Die Nibelungen was not just a problem with my TV playing NTSC DVDs (tried it on my computer, and it looks even worse) and (ii) discovering that there's plenty of other companies which release these movies with the original intertitles (particularly important to me, since I'm trying to learn German so watching German Expressionist films in English is kind of a wasted opportunity for me,)) but, in this case, I found through a search of this very forum that Warning Shadows is one of those silents without intertitles (unfortunately, I couldn't find information on the picture quality, hence my question.)

Welcome to the forum Darth. I think, if you scroll back in this and other threads that there have been a series of lively debates in the forum on these kinds of topics. The two extreme poles of the debate is on one side that Kino's releases in some respects (translation of intertitles, transfer from PAL to NTSC, etc.) do not live up to the highest technical standards of some companies out there (specifically Criterion and MoC). On this side of the argument some forum members experience the phenomenae of "ghosting" and "combing" in Kino's releases to be distracting and detrimental to their enjoyment of the films. Also, the price level of Kino's releases are sometimes faulted.

On the other side of the argument, are forum members, who do not (for one reason or anohter) experience the transfer issues outlined above, or, do not find them to be ruinous to the enjoyment of the films. On this side of the argument is also the sentiment that Kino is making an unparalleled effort to bring out silent and obscure titles that would never see the light of day otherwise. Naturally, their budgets to produce these DVDs are not vast, and the number of units sold of each title could not in many cases be great (therefore limiting the company's ability to spend the money that would possibly raise the technical standards the final notch).

The thread linked by Schreck is one that I started, because I was interested in gathering information for as many Kino titles as possible, in order for forum members in the future to be able to make qualified decisions on which Kino releases will live up to their individual standards of quality.

From what I have read in the forum and different external sources, my impression is that Warning Shadows is a very fine looking film on DVD. I just ordered the disc a few weeks ago myself, but have not yet received it (I should add that I own many Kino releases, and I have never been bothered by the issues you describe, but I also know that I am among the most forgiving forum members, when it comes to technical standards, so for me Warning Shadows was always a "blind buy" in any event).

[Darth Lavender]

Hadn't seen that thread before (I read about Warning Shadows being without intertitles in the main 'Kino' thread, found through a Google seach)
Thanks for pointing it out, the Annotated Kino list is now in my bookmarks.

[Scharphedin2]

You are welcome, be sure to add your own comments if and when you see Warning Shadows (and/or any other Kino releases)

[Ashirg]

Kino is releasing 2 documentries in October - Billy Wilder Speaks and Edgar G. Ulmer - The Man Off-screen. Ulmer disc will include a bonus film - Isle of Forgotten Sins and both discs are $24.95 each.

[vogler]

I just received the r2j. It looks great, btw, but it has only (removable) Japanese subs. Any idea where I can get those English subs timed for this version?

It's a real shame that the Japanese dvd doesn't have english subs because it really does look fantastic. I downloaded the subs using emule and they are .srt format. The timings are taken from the Japanese disc but unfortunately it was a 2 part dvd rip therefore the subs file has been split in 2. The first half will be in time but then it starts again from 0. The whole of the second half of the film would have to be retimed. I think there is software available that can join .srt files automatically (a search for 'srt joiner' should find a few) although I have never tried this. If you do not have emule I could email the subs to you as an attachment if you want.

[Antoine Doinel]

Coming in November:

STALKER
A FILM BY ANDREI TARKOVSKY

STREET 11/7/06
$29.95srp

One of Andrei Tarkovsky's (Solaris, The Sacrifice) most acclaimed films, Stalker is an unforgettable film experience that evokes the spiritual lucidity of Carl Dreyer and the unbridled imagination of Phillip K. Dick. Since its release in 1979, Stalker has inspired filmmakers as diverse as David Lynch and Steven Spielberg and ensnared audiences in a labyrinth of striking imagery revealing the familiar in the strange, the poetic in the disturbing and the mythic in the mordant. In the near future, an unseen alien force has taken possession of an area of Russian wilderness that authorities have dubbed The Zone. The only thing known for sure about the region is that few who enter it ever return. Led by a Stalker, one of a small group of outlaws able to safely navigate the Zone, a renegade scientist and a cynical, burnt-out writer penetrate the dangers outside in search of the power and transcendence rumored to exist inside. The Stalker longs to un-do a mysterious physical transformation the Zone has performed on his young daughter. The scientist will risk anything to see that reason triumphs over faith. The writer seeks a germ of inspiration that the crumbling and corrupt world beyond the Zone no longer provides. Together, these three men become desperate pilgrims walking a desolate trail leading to one of the most enigmatic and tantalizing endings in the history of cinema. A haunting and honest meditation on the intersection of science, feeling, and faith, Stalker is both profoundly unsettling and deeply moving.

SPECIAL FEATURES:

• Video Interviews: Composer Eduard Artemyev, Cameraman Aleksandr Knyazhinsky and Set Decorator Rashit Safiullin
• Excerpt from “The Steamroller and the Violinâ€

[Tommaso]

The Tarkovsky sounds like a direct port of the Ruscico, looking at the extras and the 5.1. sound. Probably again a double dvd with a split in the middle of the film? If so, another missed chance (quality is very good, all in all, but that break in the middle of this hypnotic film is really disturbing on the Ruscico).

[solaris72]

Yeah, the extras are all the same as the Ruscico, but if it's somehow got a new transfer (and if said transfer is good) this'll nonetheless be the release of the year for me.
However, it was mentioned in a thread in the "International DVD" section that:

Ruscico won't license their films to anyone unless they use their DLTs (ie. the finished disc/extras/menus/encode).

That plus the fact that the Kino disc has the same extras as the prior ones plus the fact that Criterion didn't get ahold of the rights (which suggests that maybe they balked at releasing it because with the DLT requirement their transfer wouldn't be any better than the interlaced, PAL/NTSC'd, murky R1 Image disc) makes me very pessimistic about the transfer.

[bunuelian]

Oh hell, not the 5.1 mix. Truly, the 5.1 mix is one of the most horrendously stupid things I've ever experienced. It's burned into my mind. And that's only because I sometimes forget to switch the audio on the almost-as-stupid Ruscico disc 2, and have to endure the travesty for the excruciating seconds that lead my hand toward a violent encounter with the stop button. Those idiot studio bird recordings are so far from professional that my cat instinctively vomits when he hears them.

[HerrSchreck]

I have the Russico on this-- wasn't there a first release whereby the 5.1 was the only audio track available, then after a shit-ton of bitching, they rereleased the disc with the original mono (the disc I have, and never listen to it in the 5.1) available as an option.

The sound is SO important on this film, such extremely interesting conceptual work by AT herein, the mixing of Beethoven with hints of clacking rhythmic railroad cars, etc.

If there's no new work done on this film I'll be really irritated with Kino as there's simply no reason for it's release. I mean, the revised RusiCo at least provides the mono-- so are they telling us they are rereleasing their original shitty product with no mono? Did the Rusico go oop ro something?

Does anyone know if the film underwent a recent restoration at MosFilm that would trigger such a release by them?

And let's call a spade a spade-- if not preconverted, this is the kind of disc (like AGONIYA, COME AND SEE) where the Pal/NTSC issues really interfere with the viewing process.

[Tommaso]

Quite definitely no new restoration has been going on, otherwise there would have been mention of it on www.nostalghia.com (your place for all things Tarkovsky, and affiliated with our friends from MoC here). I totally agree: get yourself the 2nd edit from Ruscico with original sound, or one of its ports. . I have the Artficial Eye PAL version, and while it's not great, it surely has no conversion problems. Nostalghia.com is still rather critical about the Ruscico version for the issue of some missing gunshots or something, but I think it's really a minor point. Still one would hope for somebody finally releasing this as a 1st dvd: film /2nd dvd: extras version. The 5.1. never really disturbed me as much as other people here, but still it's not original and thus rather useless.

[Ashirg]

From Barrie Maxwell:

Kino has also scheduled the release of four Ernst Lubitsch German silents for early December. The titles are: The Oyster Princess (with the short I Don't Want to Be a Man), Sumurun (aka One Arabian Night), Anna Bolyen (aka Deception), and The Wildcat. These may well lead to further such Lubitsch releases.

[HerrSchreck]

From Barrie Maxwell:

Kino has also scheduled the release of four Ernst Lubitsch German silents for early December. The titles are: The Oyster Princess (with the short I Don't Want to Be a Man), Sumurun (aka One Arabian Night), Anna Bolyen (aka Deception), and The Wildcat. These may well lead to further such Lubitsch releases.

Already posted on the Transit Lubitsch Box Thread. Scroll down a post or two.

[vogler]

I still haven't got round to buying the Warning Shadows DVD and have been making do with a crappy old VHS copy. I decided to purchase it but first I went to the Kino site to check out the details, and then my heart sank.....Music composed and performed by Donald Sosin - please God no - not Warning Shadows.

I'm just hoping it's not as bad as the gibbering nonsense that he provided for Nosferatu or that preposterous piffle that he contributed to the Avant-garde: Experimental Cinema of the 1920s and 30s set. If it is then I'm going to track him down and plunge an axe right through the middle of that cheap tacky parp-machine synthesiser of his. I generally find his soundtracks to be a total embarrassment and an affront to the ears.

I'm still going to buy the disc anyway of course but I wish this cheap midi-synthesiser incompetence would be cast into oblivion forever. Frankly I think anything would be preferable - even if it was Sosin just improvising on a piano - anything but more naff midi trumpets and the like. It makes me ill just thinking about such grotesque sounds.

Is anyone able to give me the good news that this soundtrack is not as bad as I fear or will I have to watch another film in complete silence?

[Matt]

Is anyone able to give me the good news that this soundtrack is not as bad as I fear or will I have to watch another film in complete silence?

Why not put on some of your own favorite ambient music while the film is on? Surely even that would be better than the wheezy "tribute to Keith Emerson" tracks that usually accompany silent films.

[vogler]

Why not put on some of your own favorite ambient music while the film is on? Surely even that would be better than the wheezy "tribute to Keith Emerson" tracks that usually accompany silent films.

Sometimes I play Schoenberg's early string quartets or Alban Berg and on occasion these go uncannily well with the action onscreen. This music would probably be fairly appropriate in this case.

If only all silent film music could be as good as the Evgenii Bauer DVD and some of Timothy Brock's best scores.

Does this mean you are saying the Warning Shadows music stinks? It's probably a fair assumption in any case.

[Matt]

Does this mean you are saying the Warning Shadows music stinks? It's probably a fair assumption in any case.

Sorry, I have no idea. But having heard my share of Donald Sosin scores, I'm pretty sure it can't be good.

When I was in grad school, we watched almost all silent films without accompaniment. I actually grew to prefer it.

[vogler]

When I was in grad school, we watched almost all silent films without accompaniment. I actually grew to prefer it.

This is certainly far preferable to watching with bad music. An inappropriate or incompetent score can destroy the experience of watching a film completely. I am thinking of the Art Zoyd Nosferatu in particular - the worst example of silent scoring of all time I think (and I am a fan of the bands early work when they were a maginificent avant-garde 'chamber rock' group). I think Passion of Joan of Arc is also far better watched in silence - the score is way over the top.

A well composed and tastefully performed score can be a wonderful thing though eg. Carl Davis, some scores by Timothy Brock etc.

[miless]

I suggest putting on some Edgard Verèse or Karlheinz Stockhausen while watching a silent, I find it haunting and disturbing... but after that you'll never, ever, take advice from me again (not that anybody has ever taken my advice to begin with)