criterionforum.org

Use 1080/50i

That's what Network did with The Sweeney: series one.

newwavefilms wrote:Nothing to do with Hors Satan - there was a learned correspondence somewhere in the forum about the best solution for blu-ray when the original film was shot at 25 fps. Have a slight suspicion that the upshot was that there is no ideal solution, but perhaps one or two experts could enlighten us (or rather me - we are of necessity a shoestring operation..). Thanks

If the original film was shot on film at 25fps, it may have been in order to show on PAL TV (25fps), but any theatrical screenings would probably have been slowed down slightly to the 24fps norm. In this instance, it's worth considering whether you want to replicate the theatrical experience with the Blu-ray and do the same, slow it down to 24fps (which is only the opposite of what PAL-land has suffered for decades with 24fps>25fps PAL speedup). Criterion slowed down 25fps films to 24fps with ANTICHRIST and BERLIN ALEXANDERPLATZ. It increases the running time slightly.

If the film was shot digitally on HD and is 25fps, you need to know whether it's 25p (progressive) or 50i (interlaced). If it's 25p it can be sneakily encoded as 1080/50i by fooling the system, and remaining progressive 25p. If it's a 50i HD master you have no real option other than to encode the Blu-ray as 50i (but first, I'd always check whether the master format really is 50i, and that you've not been palmed off with a bad dub made by someone who doesn't know what they're doing).

Artificial Eye's recent Blu-ray of Sokurov's FAUST ran into major problems because of this very issue. This forum believes the film was a 25fps master (probably 50i?) that was badly fudged into an interlaced 24p Blu-ray with completely unnecessary visible interlacing ingrained into the image throughout causing considerable resolution loss.

Problems occur when a native interlaced master is forced into a progressive encode, or a progressive master is forced into an interlaced encode.

Leroy Moore at IBF in London is a genius with all this sort of stuff. Hope you can optimise whatever the project is and make the best disc!

peerpee wrote:

newwavefilms wrote:Nothing to do with Hors Satan - there was a learned correspondence somewhere in the forum about the best solution for blu-ray when the original film was shot at 25 fps. Have a slight suspicion that the upshot was that there is no ideal solution, but perhaps one or two experts could enlighten us (or rather me - we are of necessity a shoestring operation..). Thanks

If the original film was shot on film at 25fps, it may have been in order to show on PAL TV (25fps), but any theatrical screenings would probably have been slowed down slightly to the 24fps norm. In this instance, it's worth considering whether you want to replicate the theatrical experience with the Blu-ray and do the same, slow it down to 24fps (which is only the opposite of what PAL-land has suffered for decades with 24fps>25fps PAL speedup). Criterion slowed down 25fps films to 24fps with ANTICHRIST and BERLIN ALEXANDERPLATZ. It increases the running time slightly.

If the film was shot digitally on HD and is 25fps, you need to know whether it's 25p (progressive) or 50i (interlaced). If it's 25p it can be sneakily encoded as 1080/50i by fooling the system, and remaining progressive 25p. If it's a 50i HD master you have no real option other than to encode the Blu-ray as 50i (but first, I'd always check whether the master format really is 50i, and that you've not been palmed off with a bad dub made by someone who doesn't know what they're doing).

Artificial Eye's recent Blu-ray of Sokurov's FAUST ran into major problems because of this very issue. This forum believes the film was a 25fps master (probably 50i?) that was badly fudged into an interlaced 24p Blu-ray with completely unnecessary visible interlacing ingrained into the image throughout causing considerable resolution loss.

Problems occur when a native interlaced master is forced into a progressive encode, or a progressive master is forced into an interlaced encode.

IMDb says Hors Satan was shot on 35 mm (finished as a 2K DI), so I would assume that in an ideal world, it is supposed to run at 24 fps, yes? I mean, is it possible Dumont could have sped up the film and finished the DI at 25 fps, knowing that Hors Satan would play largely in Europe?

McCrutchy, Hors Satan is sans doute meant to run at 24fps, the question wasn't about that film. It must be some other film that has a 25fps master.

@newwavefilms, MoC also addressed this matter with their release of Jia Zhangke's The World at 24fps of which there was a healthy amount of discussion in this thread which might be what you're recalling.

Oedipax wrote:It must be some other film that has a 25fps master

Not to get all fanciful here, but I believe Aurora might have been shot at 25fps :-"

BTW the Elena Blu-ray is absolutely beautiful, and the interview on the disc is very enlightening, addressing many specific questions that the film raised at least for me (much like the excellent Dumont interview on Hadewijch). DVDBeaver here

edit: Aurora DVD up for pre-order!

My last post thanking people for their answers was not approved (?) and so did not appear. I hope a slip of the fingers. To clarify: it's neither Hors Satan nor Aurora that's originally 25 fps, but Caesar Must Die.

re: CAESAR MUST DIE. It was apparently shot on Red One MX (4.5K), mastered at 2K Digital Intermediate, and outputted to 35mm & DCP.

I'd be interested to know whether the 35mm and DCP were both 24fps.

If so, I think that's very good reason for also making the Blu-ray 24fps (1080/24p) – and if your source is a 25p master, that's a straight 25p > 24p slowdown, easy, no interlacing. If the source is 50i and you want to go to 24p, it needs to be done with great care (in fact, I'd see if a pure 25p or 24p master could be sourced instead of the 50i (and watch out for a lab trying to make a 24p master from a 50i master and ingraining all the interlacing at source! Every HD master needs carefully analysing by someone who knows what problems to look for.))

A good authoring house will also be able to maintain the original audio pitch of the 25p, if you do decide to go to 24p, instead of it dropping a semi-tone (the opposite of a PAL DVD raising the pitch of a 24fps film by a semi-tone).

The Dumont interview by Jonathan Romney on HADEWIJCH is worth the price of the disc alone. Far better than that terribly shot Dumont Q&A that turned up on Soda's FLANDERS disc.

I'm wondering whether AE will pass on CAMILLE CLAUDEL, 1915? – Binoche's involvement may not be enough for them after CERTIFIED COPY? (which I'm guessing didn't sell gangbusters, going by the Amazon Sales Ranking).

peerpee wrote:The Dumont interview by Jonathan Romney on HADEWIJCH is worth the price of the disc alone

Definitely - and that price is currently under £6 on Zavvi, so if anyone doesn't have this masterpiece yet, good chance to grab it now!

Off-topic, I was hoping Binoche's presence in Claudel might provide a wider break for Dumont, but with Certified Copy still in recent memory maybe not. Also Dumont's film will probably be more difficult to market as a French rom-com (in Scandinavia, Kiarostami's film was retitled "An Afternoon in Tuscany", the DVD cover and spine say JULIETTE BINOCHE in letters as big as the film's title, while Kiarostami's name is shoved away in a corner in 3px font. Unsurprisingly, sales racks over here are currently bursting with the Blu-ray for £3...)

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that Certified Copy flopped. I was hoping for more Kiarostami on BD from AE, but that won't have helped matters. The star and location were just right for the middle brow audience, but maybe the story was just too weird for them.

Maybe New Wave can pick up Camille and release it as part of a Dumont BD box set.

peerpee wrote:I'm wondering whether AE will pass on CAMILLE CLAUDEL, 1915? – Binoche's involvement may not be enough for them after CERTIFIED COPY? (which I'm guessing didn't sell gangbusters, going by the Amazon Sales Ranking).

It's worth noting as well that while one of Binoche's French films from last year, La vie d'une autre, was released on French Blu-ray, her later 2012 picture, À cœur ouvert, was not.

I still see this one as the first Dumont to break the Blu-ray barrier somehow (excepting our little pledge drive for Hors Satan), even if it means waiting for the American release of the film, which will no doubt be in late-2013 or early 2014 and could try to capitalize on Binoche's exposure from her supposed role in the Godzilla remake--assuming that does happen.

Ah, that elusive Godzilla remake / Dumont art film crossover audience! Good lord, that sounds ridiculous, but I don't doubt that's exactly how a lot of people in the industry think. (Now a Godzilla remake directed by Dumont? That I'd cross the road to see.)

Actually, I think Camille Claudel's biggest selling point will be its 'chickflick artsy artist's bio' hook, even if (especially if?) Dumont utterly trashes the expectations of the target audience. But I thought Certified Copy would take in the mainstream arthouse audience as well, so what do I know?

zedz wrote:Actually, I think Camille Claudel's biggest selling point will be its 'chickflick artsy artist's bio' hook, even if (especially if?) Dumont utterly trashes the expectations of the target audience.

Definitely, and in a sense it won't be a big problem if the Dumont film departs from the standard biopic mould, since there is already the late-80s Camille Claudel film starring Isabelle Adjani and Gerard Depardieu that has already covered that ground somewhat.

I'm actually surprised that there are enough films for a 'chickflick artsy artist's bio' subgenre! I'm also particularly thinking of Artemisia.

My lord that was a terrible movie.

NWF tweeted that Like Someone In Love will be released on Blu!

Viva Verve has another 30% off sale and it includes Hors Satan / Aurora. Code is spring30.

Cool, thanks for the heads up! Note also that Post Tenebras Lux (from Drakes Avenue) is available for pre-order through Verve (DVD and Blu-ray) - release date 22 July

I guess the Hors Satan BD isn't going to happen?

rattlebag wrote:Viva Verve has another 30% off sale and it includes Hors Satan / Aurora. Code is spring30.

You need to use capital letters, otherwise the code is not accepted. [-X

I typed "spring30" (ie. lowercase) and it worked on a Mac. £6.30 delivered is great!

McCrutchy wrote:

peerpee wrote:I'm wondering whether AE will pass on CAMILLE CLAUDEL, 1915? – Binoche's involvement may not be enough for them after CERTIFIED COPY? (which I'm guessing didn't sell gangbusters, going by the Amazon Sales Ranking).

It's worth noting as well that while one of Binoche's French films from last year, La vie d'une autre, was released on French Blu-ray, her later 2012 picture, À cœur ouvert, was not.

I still see this one as the first Dumont to break the Blu-ray barrier somehow...

And the first Dumont Blu-ray worldwide should be...

Now, don't hold your breath, because À cœur ouvert was announced for Blu-ray by TF1 and then never materialized in the end, but still, a very good omen. If NWF picks it up, they pretty much have to go Blu for it.

Sergei Loznitsa's "In the Fog" getting both a dvd and a blu-ray release on August 26th and a package of documentaries by Loznitsa to be released late September: Blockade + Landscape + Revue on dvd.

rockysds wrote:Sergei Loznitsa's "In the Fog" getting both a dvd and a blu-ray release on August 26th and a package of documentaries by Loznitsa to be released late September: Blockade + Landscape + Revue on dvd.

Fantastic news! Blockade is a masterpiece, and In the Fog really needs to be seen in high definition.

Those docs sound pretty interesting. I liked My Joy enough that I'd blind buy In The Fog too.

Beautiful, wonderful news - hats off to NWF for these acquisitions! For a taster of the documentaries, Landscape and another short film Artel are available, at least in some parts of the world, on DocAlliance (difficult to Google because for some bizarre reason they've used international scientific transliteration of his surname)

This is progress, well done.