criterionforum.org

Mr Sausage wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 5:02 pm Some real correlation = causation fans here...

It's true, Anderson may be a lesser screenwriter now all by himself! Admittedly, I don't know what Wilson's specific contributions are (and I'd have known little about, say, Baumbach's writing abilities based on Aquatic and Fox alone), but it would be interesting to see Anderson and Wilson team up again for what effect it might have.

Interesting how the lists vary so much, with people responding strongly to different elements of WA's films.

Dekadetias list is surprisingly similar to mine.
I'd have the same Top 5, with Tenenbaum definitely on top. But would swap Fox and Rushmore.

dekadetia wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:48 pm 1. The Royal Tenenbaums
2. Bottle Rocket
3. Rushmore
4. Moonrise Kingdom
5. The Fantastic Mr. Fox
6. The French Dispatch
7. The Grand Budapest Hotel
8. The Life Aquatic
9. The Darjeeling Limited
10. Isle of Dogs

Haven't seen Isle of Dogs or French Dispatch, which I have to admit to knowing nothing about.

The 3 Andersons which I didn't like, I'd have in that very same order.
Grand Budapest looked nice but didn't interest me much. I was completely disengaged from Life Aquatic on both viewings. Just didn't work for me. Though did enjoy the Portuguese renditions of Bowie. Darjeeling actively annoyed me and felt like a total miss, in the Why was this made? vein.

Since my WA taste is so in line with dekadetia's, I'll try to check out French Dispatch before Dogs.

I still have many Anderson’s to see…


1. The Life Aquatic
2. Rushmore
3. Bottle Rocket
4. Royal Tenebaums
5. Darjeeling Limited
6. Hotel Chevalier
7. Isle of Dogs
8. Moonrise Kingdom

I loved Bottle Rocket, Rushmore and The Royal Tenenbaums - I have a soft spot for The Royal Tenenbaums because it was the first time I saw any of his movies and I didn't know anything about Anderson. I forgot whose idea it was to see it, but regardless, I think it was the first time I stepped into a movie theater after 9/11 even though a few months had passed by that point. Given the New York City setting (as intended an imaginary NYC, but clearly shot way, way uptown where tourists rarely venture) I strongly associate it with that time. These remain the most exciting of his films as everything seems fresh and new as he was staking out what he wanted to say and where he wanted to go, both in his filmmaking and how he was reacting to the world. It's also the only place where his characters collide with the real world (and not a reconstruction or a complete reimagining of it) in physical terms - the ending of Bottle Rocket, Max's new surroundings halfway into Rushmore...it's kind of a jolt to see this.

I'm still not a fan of The Life Aquatic and I have mixed feelings about The Darjeeling Limited - I think the most I got out of either was the soundtrack choices, but at least with The Darjeeling Limited the relationship between the brothers had some real substance to it, at least for me. Also love the opening where you feel like a certain actor was supposed to be the lead character, but he literally misses out on his own movie so we end up following someone else (who was also new to Anderson's world). Otherwise, Brody was an interesting choice at the time, and Owen Wilson's suicide attempt colored the impression of his physical appearance as well - granted that happened after the film was done shooting, but it felt like looking at a reflection of his state of mind at the time. Regardless, with these two films, it felt like the possibilities had kind of dried up and the limits of Anderson's films were becoming much more tangible, which made them feel all the more disappointing.

The Fantastic Mr. Fox seemed to right the ship for me. At the time I thought he found a way around his limitations by finding the right setting for them, an animated film that could turn those drawbacks into an advantage. Moonrise Kingdom built on that and in some ways remains the quintessential Anderson film for me, maybe even the apotheosis for some - it's probably the one to see if you only wanted to see one in the hopes of getting the best impression of his entire body of work. I actually like The Grand Budapest Hotel, which seems like a further advance, or at least finding more ways to work around the boundaries he set for himself. This time he's confronting history, and while the film is still a completely fabricated construct, it's interesting to see him ingest Stefan Zweig and grapple with European fascism, letting those things enter his own world. Ralph Fiennes is also wonderful in a performance that could have come out of a great Lubitsch film, and Anderson deserves a lot of credit for it - Fiennes himself said he placed his entire trust in Anderson as he wasn't a comedian.

Then came Isle of Dogs which feels more underwhelming the more I think about it. The French Dispatch didn't add up to a great film but it had very enjoyable set pieces, the kind no one else is really doing at the moment. Maybe a hollow achievement, but far more genuine fun for me than anything the major studios are currently churning out.

I hated the trailer for the new one, and the negative reviews here aren't encouraging either, but Richard Brody and Glenn Kenny's passionate defenses make me optimistic that there's something to enjoy, so will eventually see this. Not sure when - I didn't even bother to see The French Dispatch until months later when it was screened at MoMI as part of a year-in-review program.

...

Really strange to see this pop up, but apparently Borders shot this cheap-looking promo of Wes Anderson and Jason Schwartzman in 2008 at their flagship store in Ann Arbor, MI. (Borders closed ages ago but apparently Barnes & Noble acquired their social media accounts which is why this is still up.)

Wes Anderson hasn't made a good movie since Moonrise Kingdom.

He’s actually made one great one and it’s this one [Isle of Dogs]

domino harvey wrote: Tue May 13, 2025 4:03 pm He’s actually made one great one and it’s this one

This is an insane thing to say considering he also made The Royal Tenenbaums.

"since"

therewillbeblus wrote: Tue May 13, 2025 4:20 pm "since"

Ah but there’s The Wonderful Story of Henry Sugar which, based on her review in the archives, was another one that Mrs. Domino seemed to really like at least 2 of the 4 segments from and was made after Isle of Dogs.

I forgot that this was the big exception to Domino's antipathy for nu-Wes, Henry Sugar is the only thing keeping us from being polar opposites after agreeing Moonrise Kingdom is the best one.

And it would be funny for me to get this wrong, but I believe Domino is male and not butch Keira Knightley.

I liked several of Anderson’s movies since Moonrise Kingdom. For me, only one was “great” though, and none were better then MK (and I doubt very much that any will be… but then again I went into that one thinking he would never top Tenenbaums, so who knows)

And yes, I’m a guy but I don’t even register misgendering anymore due to my name, comes with the territory

I've maybe watched it five times, but I have failed each time to connect to Moonrise Kingdom outside of Bruce Willis and Norton's performance. It's my second least favorite from WA after Isle of Dogs. So many people in recent years have cited MK as potentially his best work, so that's on me. I pretty much adore all of his other work, including Asteroid City, which I think is his best work since Budapest.

The Narrator Returns wrote: Tue May 13, 2025 4:50 pm And it would be funny for me to get this wrong, but I believe Domino is male and not butch Keira Knightley.

Wait is that where his avatar comes from? Anyways pardon my misgendering, just that I called ol Domino that a couple of times and he never corrected me so I just assumed he was a woman, sorry Dom.

It’s fine, not anything bad about being thought that way other than stolen valor! My avatar is a paparazzi picture of Michelle Williams from probably close to 20 years ago, though

I go back and forth with Wes Anderson's work. His first three features are great, then he made two more that felt very uneven and left me cold, though there are parts of The Darjeeling Limited that I still enjoy. He righted the ship with his next three features, which I still think are great, but it felt like the well had run dry with the next three. They're still technically accomplished, and it's still fun to watch elaborate spectacles that work like Rube Goldberg contraptions on the big screen, but otherwise they didn't leave much of an impression. Then he made The Wonderful Story of Henry Sugar and everything worked beautifully for me - might have helped that he was adapting a strong and pre-existing work, but it's the one Wes Anderson film I've really liked since The Grand Budapest Hotel. (The other Netflix shorts aren't on the same level, but collectively they're pretty good.) I hope The Phoenician Scheme turns out all right, but based on the trailer, I'm not getting my hopes up.

Moonrise, Dispatch, and Asteroid are my three favorites of his, where others see increasing self-parody I see maybe the most consistent innovation and emotional/artistic depth of any director working. The deeper he goes into himself, the more powerful insight I take from his work.

I’m of the uncommon opinion that Tenenbaums was a misstep that Anderson nicely recovered from

beamish14 wrote: Tue May 13, 2025 6:41 pm I’m of the uncommon opinion that Tenenbaums was a misstep that Anderson nicely recovered from

the thing that annoys me about it is that it feels most stereotypically like one of his movies. like so many of the things people call him pretentious over stemmed from that movie. it feels a little too "proper" to me, whereas every following Anderson movie has that rough-around-the-edge-ness to it that stems from his Texan roots, even with some of the scenes in Tenenbaums being that way, most courtesy of Gene Hackman

So many scenes in that movie are "rough around the edges" - probably more than anything else he's done - and it's not even my favorite

I do think the best exchange in any of his films (including the "I love you but you don't know what you're talking about" from MK) is in Tenenbaums: When Richie is doing an intervention for Eli, and Eli says, "I wish you had done this when I was a kid." "But you didn't have a drug problem then." "Yeah but it would've meant a lot." Or something like that. I think that raw honesty for irredeemable loss mixed with a current bid for connection mixed with humor pointing out the absurdity of a statement whilst validating it, is exactly what Anderson has built his career trying to express and access. But never more piercing and funny than that.

therewillbeblus wrote: Tue May 13, 2025 9:50 pm So many scenes in that movie are "rough around the edges" - probably more than anything else he's done - and it's not even my favorite

I do think the best exchange in any of his films (including the "I love you but you don't know what you're talking about" from MK) is in Tenenbaums: When Richie is doing an intervention for Eli, and Eli says, "I wish you had done this when I was a kid." "But you didn't have a drug problem then." "Yeah but it would've meant a lot." Or something like that. I think that raw honesty for irredeemable loss mixed with a current bid for connection mixed with humor pointing out the absurdity of a statement whilst validating it, is exactly what Anderson has built his career trying to express and access. But never more piercing and funny than that.

That's such a brilliant exchange. ^

In defense of The Darjeeling Limited, I will testify that I was lukewarm on it after its release when The Life Aquatic had already brought me (still my favorite WA along with Fox) onboard to the WA train, but my view of it changed exponentially when I worked in northern India (including Darjeeling) for a few weeks for the BBC 11 years ago. It's still a clumsy movie, in my opinion, and I cannot point to a single joke where my perspective changed, but I just "got it" and related to it more easily. I'm kind of shocked WA made that movie at such a young age. Having been to over 50+ countries, India is next level. Nothing compares.

aox wrote: Tue May 13, 2025 10:18 pm In defense of The Darjeeling Limited, I will testify that I was lukewarm on it after its release when The Life Aquatic had already brought me (still my favorite WA along with Fox) onboard to the WA train, but my view of it changed exponentially when I worked in northern India (including Darjeeling) for a few weeks for the BBC 11 years ago. It's still a clumsy movie, in my opinion, and I cannot point to a single joke where my perspective changed, but I just "got it" and related to it more easily. I'm kind of shocked WA made that movie at such a young age. Having been to over 50+ countries, India is next level. Nothing compares.

Darjeeling is probably the most 'personal' movie of his for me (perhaps even more than Rushmore, which can't really be replaced as the top). I had the opposite experience to your's: Darjeeling floored me on a first watch, but is far from my favorite Anderson today, losing esteem up to my own time in India. I first saw it at a time in my life where it affected many of my choices, and in a strange way each character had quirks or attitudes that mirrored my behaviors and experiences of that period. Many years later I went to India, including up to Ladakh / Leh, which is the most beautiful and spiritual place I've traveled to. I wasn't the biggest fan of Delhi, Agra, et al. but Leh was perfect. And I'll never forget that yak cheese omelettes are the best breakfast in the world

I thought I had missed more of his films, because I really lost interest after Tenenbaums, but it turns out French Dispatch is the only one I’ve yet to see. MK is the only non-stop motion film since Tenenbaums I really loved. The two stop-motion films are wonderful, especially Isle of Dogs. The rest is fine, but I have no desire to rewatch any of them, which is basically how I judge films these days.

I’m guessing I’m the only one here who hates Rushmore. And judging by the fact no one seems to’ve mentioned it, one of the few who thinks The Grand Budapest Hotel is terrific. I’m not the biggest Anderson fan, tho’, so those two plus Moonrise Kingdom and The Royal Tenenbaums are the only ones that do it for me.