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Felix wrote:I hope the next announcement from Eclipse is not a series of the same Ozu prints that Panorama have been releasing or the forthcoming MoC Mizoguchi's...

I'm multi-region and it's precisely those same Ozu films released by Panorama that I'm hoping for. Never shelled out for their shite. I know a couple of them were pretty good quality but was confident that there was something better just around the corner.

Oh, no argument there. Notice I said the same Ozu prints as Panorama, not films. If Eclipse release better quality films than those available elswhere, then I am happy, whether I double dip or not. But that does not seem to be the ethos.

leo goldsmith wrote:It's a shame that the pleasantly clunky and deeply weird <em>It Rains on Our Love</em> is not among these.

Well, there is always hope for series 2.

Felix wrote:But this is really only for people who have not got with Multi-region yet, and is a disappointment for the rest of us.

Which is the vast majority of viewers. I'm not sure I understand what the disappointment is.

Tribe

Panorama uses the same materials as the Shochiku DVDs from Japan (and for the comparatively short early films, there is no issue of using too much compression). I seriously doubt that any Eclipse/Criterion releases of this material will be significantly better than the Asian DVDs. The inter-title translations might be a bit better -- that's about it.

Tribe wrote:

Felix wrote:But this is really only for people who have not got with Multi-region yet, and is a disappointment for the rest of us.

Which is the vast majority of viewers. I'm not sure I understand what the disappointment is.

But the vast majority of viewers are not hard-core Bergman fans. Those that are probably already have these releases through Tartan. Those that aren't -- the casual fans who've seen only a dozen or two of his more revered works -- are going to find these mediocre by comparison. (With the exceptions, as others have pointed out, of Torment and To Joy, both of which are good films, though not quite at the level of most of those already released under the Criterion label.)

I'm not surprised to see this set under the new Eclipse label, but I am perplexed that they would be bold enough to initiate this new line with a set of movies that both will have a limited appeal and are already available and likely owned by that limited audience.

I bought all the early Bergmans on the quasi-pirate Bo Yang label in Shanghai and HK. These are basically the Tartans (even with same covers), and sell for about US$2.50 a piece (good trransfers, DVD-9). If Eclipse aren't adding extras, I wouldn't see the need to upgrade from these. Torment, Summer with Monika, Port of Call are favourites.

yeah, lets advertise piracy again, great idea! #-o

Well, they're available on the open market..that's why i said quasi-pirate. Maybe they have a license to retail super-cheap on the Chinese market only, which is becoming the latest anti-piracy thing now from what I gather. A way for companies to make a buck rather than nothing at all.

ab-514 wrote:the casual fans who've seen only a dozen or two of his more revered works -- are going to find these mediocre by comparison.

When a person has seen a dozen or two Bergman's films (considering the availability of many of his titles), they are still considered only a casual fan!

Tribe wrote:

Felix wrote:But this is really only for people who have not got with Multi-region yet, and is a disappointment for the rest of us.

Which is the vast majority of viewers. I'm not sure I understand what the disappointment is.

Really? I would have thought most people who frequent this forum (and those who don't) and love film would already have gone Multi-region, but I could be wrong. I know it was the first thing on my mind when I bought a DVD player (ditto VCR many years ago) but these arguments have already been gone over many times on CF and I don't want to go over old ground.

The disappointment I would have thought was fairly clear, different sets of the same prints of the same films released in different regions, as opposed to films not released anywhere finally seeing the light of day (including a number of the other early Bergmans).

Not much info there, but here's Image link to it

thats a reasonable price, that would be around $50 discounted online for 5 films. It could be cheaper though, hehe, around $50-60 SRP.
Considering theres no extras, will there even be a booklet?

Anyway $70-$75 SRP is about the highest it can be priced in my opinion given there are no special features. I think the price point is really important for the eclipse line in convincing people to buy these sets.

Matango wrote:I bought all the early Bergmans on the quasi-pirate Bo Yang label in Shanghai and HK. These are basically the Tartans (even with same covers), and sell for about US$2.50 a piece (good trransfers, DVD-9). If Eclipse aren't adding extras, I wouldn't see the need to upgrade from these. Torment, Summer with Monika, Port of Call are favourites.

Well, I haven't got that set and I do suppose these are indeed bootlegs, but to their credit they managed to get out "The Devil's Eye", which is not available from Tartan at all. THAT one (if only for its rarity) would have been a reason to buy the Eclipse set, and one wonders why Eclipse also did not put out "Dreams" in order to beat the Tartan rip-off 30-DVD-set which is the only possibility to see that film at the moment.

Well, in my case, I went multi-region a good two years ago, but never bothered to pick up the early Bergmans, since they didn't seem to be *particularly* grand films, and they were rather expensive.

For lazy, penny pinching fools like me, the Eclipse set is a grand event.

Fair point. I forget that the very beneficial exchange rate works the other way over there, on top of which you may not have the same opportunities for purchasing from Amazon marketplace vendors if they don't do international orders. I have resisted these until they came to a price range that I thought reasonable (and they can be picked up pretty cheaply over here), as I too see them as not essential Bergman, though still very interesting.

I'm still disappointed but it is all speculation anyway, the next set of releases could be of a very different nature. I'll reserve judgement.

What A Disgrace wrote:Well, in my case, I went multi-region a good two years ago, but never bothered to pick up the early Bergmans, since they didn't seem to be *particularly* grand films, and they were rather expensive.

For lazy, penny pinching fools like me, the Eclipse set is a grand event.

Bingo! Just because film buffs have multi-regional capacity doesn't mean they own every major R2 release. I imagine Criterion are banking on the fact that multi-region consumers like What a Disgrace (and myself) have gone for "bigger" titles -- or at least don't own more than one or two of the five.

I just love how everyone reading this board is not only expected to have seen every film ever made, but to own multiple DVDs of each of them. Film fandom can't be an expensive enough habit for the likes of ab-514.

It also kind of cracks me up that Criterion is expected to take into account the films and discs released in other regions. It oughtta just be assumed that having multiple releases of the same film in different regions is just a part of the whole mutli-region thing.

Tribe wrote:I could be entirely wrong, but if they are calling them a "series" I would think that they'd be available separately...especially Becker is claiming that they want to keep them under $15.

I would hope so. It may not be as big a deal for director boxes. Chances are the majority of people into Bergman, Imamura, or Ozu are going to want the set. The theme boxes are a bigger toss up and people may be more apt to want to pick and choose what they want. But not knowing any of the upcoming themes and how closely knit the films in the set are it's purely my guesswork.

mikeohhh wrote:I just love how everyone reading this board is not only expected to have seen every film ever made, but to own multiple DVDs of each of them. Film fandom can't be an expensive enough habit for the likes of ab-514.

I apologize, but I don't quite understand this reaction. My post was simply an affirmation of and brief attempt at explaining the disappointment Felix has been expressing in regards to the titles included in this set. Personally, I am not in the habit of purchasing multiple editions of the same movie on DVD, and I would be surprised if there are many others that are. Hence my concern over the sales a set like this will bring (which ought to be important for the first set in a new line). Tryavna's speculation as to Criterion's rationale seems likely to me as well.

Regardless, I do hope the set sells well enough for Criterion/Eclipse to publish future editions of some of Bergman's currently unavailable works.

ab-514 wrote:But the vast majority of viewers are not hard-core Bergman fans. Those that are probably already have these releases through Tartan.

I'm a hardcore Bergman fan. I do not have the Tartan DVDs, because I don't have multi-region capability, and also I am not made of money.

I'm very excited about this set. I'm not expecting much from the films, to be honest, but I do love To Joy and I'm always happy to add more Bergman to my collection. He's the only director for whom I'll buy any R1 DVD, no questions asked. If they release the godawful All These Women here, I'll buy it.

mteller wrote:If they release the godawful All These Women here, I'll buy it.

I think that movie's hilarious. I'd rather watch that than The Virgin Spring any day.

These 5 Early Bergman films are working out at 9 Euros apiece for me including Amazon expedited shipping to Ireland, so definitely good value compared with the Tartan's list price of 30 euros per title...

Matt wrote:

mteller wrote:If they release the godawful All These Women here, I'll buy it.

I think that movie's hilarious. I'd rather watch that than The Virgin Spring any day.

I think "All these women" is much underrated, probably because Bergman himself dismisses it and because it seems to be totally at odds with his other work. But you can see traces of its type of humour in "Smiles of a summer night" already, here expanded almost into the slapstick genre, but in any case its a feast for the eye with its glorious colours and sets . Sometimes I think Bergman should have done more in that lighter vein, as he clearly knows how to master it. That's why I want to see "The devil's eye" so much, because apparently it's another comical film, and one which he also dismisses.