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So it's looking as though the best options currently are:

Shadows of our Forgotten Ancestors - Films sans frontières PAL
The Colour of Pomegranates - Films sans frontières PAL
Ashik Kerib - Ruscico PAL

...with Legend of the Suram Fortress being a tie between Kino and Ruscico (PAL), both being flawed in different ways. (I'll do a direct comparison in due course - I just have to get my copy of the Kino disc back from a friend first).

Incidentally, I sent DVD Beaver matching grabs from the Ruscico PAL version of Ashik Kerib last night - they're definitely a cut above the NTSC version that's currently featured on the site (which is almost certainly a conversion from a PAL original, with all that that implies).

What about the japanese Sayat Nova DVD, will that not be compared? I know it's the shorter version, but the image quality is very good (although, i've nothing to compare it to).

If anyone can tell me where to get hold of a copy (and indeed confirm that it's still in print), I'll happily consider it - but my own admittedly skimpy research has drawn a blank so far.

MichaelB wrote:If anyone can tell me where to get hold of a copy (and indeed confirm that it's still in print), I'll happily consider it.

Here it is. And another one.

Thanks for that - I did actually check YesAsia, but assumed that the DVD wouldn't have the English title so ended up doing a load of fruitless searches under various spellings of 'Paradjanov'.

I'll try to get hold of a copy in time for my deadline (which should be feasible, as it's still several weeks away).

UPDATE: I'll have it in the first week of December (or the second if it gets caught up in the Christmas post), which still gives me enough time. So that's seven discs I'll be assessing in total, which I think is probably enough unless anyone knows of any others that are worth doing (this Russian Shadows of our Forgotten Ancestors doesn't sound like much cop).

Alapage just dropped my order for Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors. They said they were out and that the distributor didn't give them any indication when any more would be available. Jerks! So I'm back to square one.

On my Home Vision video copy it shows the Janus logo before the movie "Shadows" starts so i am hopeful that Criterion might one day pick it up and release it......

MichaelB wrote:UPDATE: I'll have it in the first week of December (or the second if it gets caught up in the Christmas post), which still gives me enough time. So that's seven discs I'll be assessing in total, which I think is probably enough unless anyone knows of any others that are worth doing (this Russian Shadows of our Forgotten Ancestors doesn't sound like much cop).

Well, full marks to YesAsia - it actually turned up today, only a week after I ordered it. And by happy coincidence the two FsF discs turned up at the same time, so I have all the raw materials I need.

I'll update this post in a few hours when I've had a chance to compare the Pomegranates discs properly - and I'll very happily send frame grabs to DVDBeaver as well.

Incidentally, does anyone know of any Mac software that can generate those bitrate graphs that accompany most Beaver reviews?

OK, as I rather expected from the comments above, the Japanese disc has BY FAR the best picture, followed by the softer and more contrasty French disc, with the Kino a poor third (and in any case the hideous compulsory yellow subtitles disqualify it from serious contention). The Japanese source print is in amazingly good condition (a few blemishes, but the film's nearly forty), and while the colours are a tad muted and there's a faint magenta cast, it's certainly the best copy of this notoriously poorly-served film that I've ever come across.

The Japanese disc wins even more comfortably for sound - it's far from perfect (there's quite a bit of background hiss, which is especially obvious in the silent passages), but the soundtracks of both the French and Kino discs are badly muffled. Which, sadly, suggests that this is likely to be true of ANY version of the "director's cut" - I remember when watching the Kino that I didn't recall the sound being that bad in the Channel Four version, but when I checked I discovered that the C4 print was also the shorter Sergei Yutkevich cut.

Annoyingly, though, all three discs have their good points - Kino has the best extras (a short and a full-length documentary), the Japanese disc the best print, and the French disc the best all-round presentation, in that it offers the longer cut with optional English subtitles. So a hypothetical perfect version would take the Japanese print, splice in additional material from the longer version and throw in the Kino disc's extras - all with optional English subtitles. Well, I can always dream...

Let's all hope Criterion keeps their promise.

Great job on those Paradjanov, MichaelB! Can't wait to see those caps at the Beaver.

Hi MichaelB, quick question, is the FsF the "Director's Cut" or the "Yutkevich Cut", i.e. is the FsF a better version of the Kino DVD or a poorer version of the Japanese DVD?

I have the Connoisseur Video [UK PAL VHS] release which is the "Yutkevich Cut". From what've I've read the "Yutkevich Cut" was made from the original negative, i.e. the original negative was re-cut to produce the "Yutkevich Cut". The "Director's Cut" was a copy made from the original negative BEFORE it was re-cut by Yutkevich. Therefore, it seems there is no original negative of the "Director's Cut", hence the better quality of the "Yutkevich Cut" and the degraded quality of the "Director's Cut". As you say it would be great if a splice of the best bits of both versions could be merged to produce a superior "Director's Cut".

One other thing I also read before, the original name of the film was "Sayat Nova" afaik. The name "The Colour of Pomegranates" was given to the film by Yutkevich after he re-cut it.

ivuernis wrote:Hi MichaelB, quick question, is the FsF the "Director's Cut" or the "Yutkevich Cut", i.e. is the FsF a better version of the Kino DVD or a poorer version of the Japanese DVD?

It's the "director's cut" - it runs 75 minutes (i.e. the PAL equivalent of the Kino disc's 78) and has white-on-black titles in Armenian script, whereas the Yutkevich cut runs 73 minutes and has white-on-red titles in Cyrillic. The FsF disc is certainly a better transfer than the Kino: I haven't done a side-by-side comparison yet, but the mere fact that the subtitles are optional is a major point in its favour. And I'm pretty sure the transfer is visually superior too.

From what've I've read the "Yutkevich Cut" was made from the original negative, i.e. the original negative was re-cut to produce the "Yutkevich Cut". The "Director's Cut" was a copy made from the original negative BEFORE it was re-cut by Yutkevich. Therefore, it seems there is no original negative of the "Director's Cut", hence the better quality of the "Yutkevich Cut" and the degraded quality of the "Director's Cut". As you say it would be great if a splice of the best bits of both versions could be merged to produce a superior "Director's Cut".

That sounds extremely plausible, and appears to be borne out by the evidence. And although I haven't made a detailed comparative analysis of both versions, it seems to me that it would be relatively straightforward to take the Yutkevich cut and reinstate the original intertitles and what should be only a few minutes of additional footage - and of course both versions could easily be presented in the same package. In fact, they'd easily fit on a single dual-layer DVD with plenty of room to spare.

Incidentally, with the caveat that I've only watched the first ten minutes, I have to say that I was most impressed with the FsF Shadows of our Forgotten Ancestors - it's definitely a cut above their Pomegranates. The print is in excellent condition, the colours generally ring true (they're slightly faded, but not as noticeably as on the later film) and I haven't yet noticed any issues with the transfer.

All of which is just as well given that it's the only viable DVD version of this film - the Russian alternative sounds like a waste of time, and I'm not even going to bother tracking it down.

MichaelB wrote:Incidentally, with the caveat that I've only watched the first ten minutes, I have to say that I was most impressed with the FsF Shadows of our Forgotten Ancestors - it's definitely a cut above their Pomegranates. The print is in excellent condition, the colours generally ring true (they're slightly faded, but not as noticeably as on the later film) and I haven't yet noticed any issues with the transfer.

Me too! Actually it's one of the best looking transfers of an older film I've seen in recent times. Almost no grain, very sharp, nice colours, and very cinematic looking. I don't think Criterion or MoC would have done it much better. One thing irritated me, though. In many fades, the image becomes a glaring red instead of black. Is that intentional (it might well be because of the red horses symbolism), or is it an issue with the colour strips?

I think it's intentional - it was certainly characteristic of the 35mm version I saw in Paris fifteen years or so ago.

Tommaso wrote:One thing irritated me, though. In many fades, the image becomes a glaring red instead of black. Is that intentional (it might well be because of the red horses symbolism), or is it an issue with the colour strips?

It's the same on my copy of Shadows of Our Forgotten Ancestors (Connoisseur Video [UK PAL VHS]) and I'm fairly sure it's intentional and not a defect in the print considering the general psychedelic use of colour in this film.

MichaelB wrote:I've been commissioned by Sight & Sound to write a comparative review of Sergo Paradjanov DVDs.

When will your DVD reviews appear in S&S btw?

I'm pretty happy with my Connoisseur Video VHS versions of Shadows, Suram Fortress and Pomegranates (I have the much maligned Kino DVD too for the Director's Cut) for now. They are good prints but I might be tempted to upgrade to the FsF DVDs if they are significantly better.

ivuernis wrote:When will your DVD reviews appear in S&S btw?

Next issue but one, I think - the deadline's in about a fortnight, which implies the February 2007 issue (out in the second week of January). If not, then probably the March issue.

I've got 850 words, so it won't exactly be an in-depth analysis of all seven discs, but I don't need to spend too much time on some of them. For instance, the FsF Shadows seems to deliver exactly what it promises, so I can get that across in a sentence or two.

I live in the states so is it easy to order Shadows from Films Sans Frontieres? I went to their website but most of it was in French so is it easy to order from them?

I usually use Alapage, largely because I've never had any problems with them (I'm based in the UK).

Here's a direct link.

MichaelB wrote:I usually use Alapage, largely because I've never had any problems with them (I'm based in the UK).

Here's a direct link.

Thanks!.....

I've just uploaded sample frame grabs from the three Pomegranates DVDs here

Some more tidbits...

Apparently there is a longer (than the current Director's Cut) version somewhere in the archives of Armenfilms as can be read from the trivia section for Pomegranates in IMDB...

"The version available on DVD now [i.e. the Director's Cut] was first released in its entirety in 1992. This is the version that was submitted to the Soviet censors in 1969 and rejected and re-cut considerably. There is a fuller version, longer than the director's cut still in the archives (somewhere) of Armenfilms."

This would chime in with something I read Vertigo magazine a few issues back...

There is a show hosted by Enrico Ghezzi on Italian TV station RAI3 called "Fuori Orario - Cose (Mai) Viste" (translates as "Out of Hours - Things (Never) Seen") that screens all manner of oddities late in the night and on NYE 2004 they screened...

"five hours of rushes from Armenian film archives including... outtakes from Paradjanov's "Colour of Pomegranates""

ivuernis wrote:There is a show hosted by Enrico Ghezzi on Italian TV station RAI3 called "Fuori Orario - Cose (Mai) Viste" (translates as "Out of Hours - Things (Never) Seen") that screens all manner of oddities late in the night and on NYE 2004 they screened...

"five hours of rushes from Armenian film archives including... outtakes from Paradjanov's "Colour of Pomegranates""

There are three avi files of Sayat Nova (Colour of Pomegranates) rushes around 700mb each that can be downloaded using emule. I think in total this is about 4 hours of material (maybe more). I am downloading the files at the moment but I have been able to preview some of it and it is genuine.

Excellent! I'm going to try to download them. Thanks.

The broadcasted rushes were 280mins long but the TV rip is 240mins long (about 1.6GB worth of AVI).

They'd make some amazing bonus material if a proper transfer from the souce material could ever be made!

Question re Shadows OOFA.

At ch4 ("Loneliness") of the excellent new r2fr dvd the image is black-and-white. Now, I've seen this film in the theater a few times and on tape a half dozen times, but I don't recall ever seeing any b/w footage. Is this some kind of restoration of original intentions? Or is it just further evidence of my early onset Alzheimers?