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I noticed the missing frames too (it is hard not to)...Criterion should do a re-issue correcting the error...it is very intrusive...not what one would expect from CC

Mental Mike wrote:I noticed the missing frames too (it is hard not to)...Criterion should do a re-issue correcting the error...it is very intrusive...not what one would expect from CC

I doubt it's an error they can "correct" easily. The frames are probably missing in the film element they used to make the transfer.

Missing frames are par for the course on older films, so is the problem particularly bad on this?

Could it be that my new policy of not buying cc's until they've been out long enough for cc to get them right already paying dividends?

Napoleon wrote:Missing frames are par for the course on older films, so is the problem particularly bad on this?

I didn't find it as jarring as some others apparently did; it's only a couple of frames in a couple of shots. It's especially noticeable because it happens as the actor in the frame is in movement. There's no dialogue missing or anything like that. I think it was surprising to see missing frames because the transfer otherwise looks so pristine.

it was just suprising considering how nice the transfer looked, but no it's not really that intrusive. i just wanted to make sure it wasn't just my copy.

I rented this from Netflix, and watched it last night.

Re. the "missing frames": my immediate reaction (on what was my first viewing of the film) was "wow, a jump cut in the original editing". A shocking technical flaw, if that is, indeed, what it is. The only other explanation I can think of is severe damage to the print, but I would expect Criterion to be up front about such a problem. The real question is, has anyone seen a print where the jump cut is not present?

I really enjoyed the film's sly humour. There are some terribly racist lines in it, though, that would never pass muster in 2006. The following exchange is amazing (I might be paraphrasing a little, but the gist is there):

Phillipe: "Are there no women to marry in Africa?"

Baines: "Plenty, but none of them are white."

The BFI toured a polished up 35mm print in the UK recently to tie in with the NFT's Carol Reed retrospective. Although I didn't notice any missing frames, I have no idea whether this would have any connection with the element Criterion used. Odd Man Out toured too, and looked glorious.

Anyone got the Optimum Fallen Idol out there? I really hope this isn't a CC error, especially with the recent troubles with M, Jigoku, Ugetsu and a couple of others that I can't think of offhand and am too lazy to search for.

Matango wrote:Anyone got the Optimum Fallen Idol out there? I really hope this isn't a CC error, especially with the recent troubles with M, Jidokou, Ugetsu and a couple of others that I can't think of offhand and am too lazy to search for.

Ya know, I've lost track of the errors at this point. Mods, can we have a list of "known issues?" Not nonsense like window-boxing or they didn't use the cover I liked, but "real" issues.

Tribe

I finally caught up with this one and was very pleasant surprised at how easily I got sucked into the story. I liked how we sort of see the world through the eyes of the young boy and how he perceives the complex relationships between adults. He may not fully understand the disintegrating relationship between Baines and his wife but he knows that something is not right with them. I also thought it was interesting that over the course of the movie he becomes suspicious and wary of the adult world -- seeing it as a place inhabited by secrets, lies, cruel behaviour and even death.

Bobby Henrey was quite good! At first, his character comes across as a bit of brat but eventually we feel sympathy towards him as he becomes conflicted between his loyalty to Baines and telling the authorities what he saw (or thinks he saw). Henrey managed to maintain a sense of child-like wonderment with a loss of innocence. It's interesting that on the A Sense of Carol Reed doc they mention what a difficult actor he was!

I really enjoyed this one too. The child's-eye-view was very well done, and the first 2/3rds of the film had me engrossed. The last section dragged a little for me (actually, once the investigation began), but it was still very strong.

My favorite line was when the prostitute in the police station said to the boy: "I know your daddy!".

Wading my way through several 1940s films, this has been the most pleasant surprise thus far. I can remember when I first became interested in movies outside cartoons and A&E would often show older classic films like Duck Soup and Randolph Scott westerns. The channel frequently showed The Fallen Idol as well, but I never sat through the whole thing and couldn't remember anything about it really.

Now I've read in the booklet for this release that one of the essay authors first saw the film as a child and I almost wish I'd watched the whole thing on A&E all those years ago. Watching it for the first time as a young adult does remind me of how we see things during childhood and it's surely an altogether different experience. It's a remarkable film. I think it's incorrect to approach it, as so many synopses seem to, as the story of a young boy who thinks he sees his idolized caretaker kill someone. Most of the film takes place before that event and makes for the most interesting part of the movie.

The idea that we've seen how essential Baines is to the child and the boy's willingness to do whatever to protect that bond is vital, I think, to give the final act, following Mrs. Baines' fall, its weight. I was struck by how well the film conveys that childlike feeling of seeing an adult, for most it would be a parent, as completely above anyone else in the child's world and the need to protect that person no matter how small the contribution.

Fletch F. Fletch wrote:Bobby Henrey was quite good! At first, his character comes across as a bit of brat but eventually we feel sympathy towards him as he becomes conflicted between his loyalty to Baines and telling the authorities what he saw (or thinks he saw). Henrey managed to maintain a sense of child-like wonderment with a loss of innocence. It's interesting that on the A Sense of Carol Reed doc they mention what a difficult actor he was!

I just finished watching this about a half-hour ago, and my overall response was that it was a potential masterpiece that was marred by the character of the boy. I'm not sure if it was the performance or just the character himself, but I just found him unbearable about halfway through, and given that we see the entire movie through his eyes, my enjoyment of the film overall became difficult once I just started wanting him to get offscreen. Did nobody else find the boy unbearable?

One year later and I still can't erase the little kid's "BAINES! BAINES!" refrains out of my head.

The kid is without a doubt obnoxious, but all of the tension in the story is wrapped up in him. If he'd simply tell the truth, and at the end simply let things go, he would not have been nearly so unbearable, but the story would have been devoid of any kind of drama. The last forty minutes could have been summed up with a "Well its nice to see you old chap, cheerio!"

For the last ten minutes I couldn't stop squirming. I was virtually yelling at my TV "Shut up you stupid kid! Shut up! Everything's fine!" Brilliant suspence. Absolutely brilliant.

"Oh BAINES!" I loved the kid, made me love the film.

I just saw the film and I liked it a lot. But, it left me wondering, why the title? What exactly did it mean by "The Fallen Idol"?

teddyleevin wrote:I just saw the film and I liked it a lot. But, it left me wondering, why the title? What exactly did it mean by "The Fallen Idol"?

the kid idolizes Baines, who appears to have committed a horrible crime, and thus has fallen in the eyes of the child.

domino harvey wrote:

teddyleevin wrote:I just saw the film and I liked it a lot. But, it left me wondering, why the title? What exactly did it mean by "The Fallen Idol"?

the kid idolizes Baines, who appears to have committed a horrible crime, and thus has fallen in the eyes of the child.

Thanks! I figured that was the gist of it, but in all honesty I was expecting the movie to involve an ancient idol (like a small statue) falling to the ground.

Sometimes, I'm an idiot.

I think the title can also be referring to the fate of Mrs Baines herself (especially as the film mostly operates from the point of view of Phil).

Oh Baines, tell me again about the blackies...

Ste wrote:There are some terribly racist lines in it, though, that would never pass muster in 2006. The following exchange is amazing (I might be paraphrasing a little, but the gist is there):

Phillipe: "Are there no women to marry in Africa?"

Baines: "Plenty, but none of them are white."

In the original Greene story, the N-word is tossed about casually and repeatedly.

Cash Flagg wrote:

Ste wrote:There are some terribly racist lines in it, though, that would never pass muster in 2006. The following exchange is amazing (I might be paraphrasing a little, but the gist is there):

Phillipe: "Are there no women to marry in Africa?"

Baines: "Plenty, but none of them are white."

In the original Greene story, the N-word is tossed about casually and repeatedly.

As it was tossed about in real life London in the 1940s. The Philippe/Baines exchange isn't racist in its context, just practical and realisitic. People spoke like that back then. Criticising it as racism is about as valid as noting a lack of Wi-Fi facilities in the cafe that Baines visits.

Going Out of Print by the End of March.

This is probably the film I'm most wanting to pick up out of this deplorable crop of new OOPs that I didn't already have...anyone know the best price out there? Amazon is at $27 for some stupid reason, and it's already OOS at Criterion's site.