8 / BD 16 Metropolis

[Mozart]

And it's also by no means certain whether this undertaking to region-code was legally binding or a "gentleman's agreement".

If it was sent by Kino via email or it is a hard copy with a signature on it, then it is legally binding.

[MichaelB]

You said, you have the agreement in written, that they will release Metropolis as Region A, thus it is clearly a breach of contract. Doesn't matter if it is a mistake or not.

Kino can correct it voluntary and print new BRs.

And then what?

As I said above, the problem is that the MoC discs are region-locked, not that the Kino is region-free. In fact, by far the most satisfactory outcome would be for the MoC to be recalled and reissued region-free, but what are the chances of Kino paying for that - even if they were successfully sued?

[Mozart]

And then what?

Then everyone in the US, who wants to see/buy Metropolis on BR has to buy the MoC.

This is all very well in theory, but in practice it's probably unaffordable

Lawsuits for omission of publishing are very fast and not costly. They are pretty common also. If someone is not happy with passages in a book, and he can prove that the writing is not correct, the book wont get published in that form. Here it is the same case. If MoC has the prove, then the Kino wont happen.

But that is of course all theory. The best would be if the parties would talk to each other. And hopefully MoC wont get harmed business-wise.

Cheers
Mozart

[MichaelB]

And then what?

Then everyone in the US, who wants to see/buy Metropolis on BR has to buy the MoC.

But the vast majority won't be able to play it. So are Kino going to buy them region-free players?

This is what stinks about this whole affair: Kino have already achieved their primary aims, and even if MoC forces them to region-code, that won't change the basic situation. The only thing that would make a difference would be MoC repressing the disc region-free, but even if that happens it'll be too late to take advantage of the publicity that the releases are getting right now.

[manicsounds]

Suing just isn't the answer. MoC should just use this as a reason to release region free Transit-Film releases, or other overlapping Kino titles.

If in the future they say, "Hey, we are both releasing xxxxx on Bluray at the same time, would you mind region coding?", MoC can say, "Um, remember what happened with Metropolis? Let's not have that happen again and just release everything region free."

[MichaelB]

Suing just isn't the answer.

To be honest, I'm not sure what it would achieve. After all, MoC presumably only has the UK rights, and a clever lawyer (or even just a sufficiently clued-up one) would simply ask why they're so concerned about being able to reach a market they're not technically supposed to be selling to in the first place.

If in the future they say, "Hey, we are both releasing xxxxx on Bluray at the same time, would you mind region coding?", MoC can say, "Um, remember what happened with Metropolis? Let's not have that happen again and just release everything region free."

I think it's extraordinarily unlikely that Kino will ever be able to secure such an agreement again. Let's hope the profits from Metropolis are worth it.

[bugsy_pal]

This really stinks big time. I'm fortunate that I an in region B Australia and have my order in for the MoC Metropolis. I just hope that enought people will come to be aware of the superiority of MoC's productions and opt for theirs in preference to Kino's.

I don't own any Kino discs, because they are horribly overpriced. Everything I've read about their DVD productions over the years smacks of sloppiness and/or laziness. I went for the French disc of Lang's "House By the River" over Kino's because it was superior in the picture department - if it was a different company's region 1 production I might have caved in, simply because I have always like to get NTSC versions where possible that don't suffer from PAL speedup issues. I encourage everyone to go region-free on Blu - I can see that there is perhaps less incentive to do so for many folks in the US, whereas for us in Oz and Europe, we must have region-free players to see that nice Criterion stuff.

[arsonfilms]

To be honest, I'm not sure what it would achieve. After all, MoC presumably only has the UK rights, and a clever lawyer (or even just a sufficiently clued-up one) would simply ask why they're so concerned about being able to reach a market they're not technically supposed to be selling to in the first place.

One key piece though is that Kino's DVD comes out a full week before MoC's, and most DVD sales happen immediately after release. MoC can easily demonstrate Kino's intent to impinge on their sales through a contractual obligation. Obviously the big issue is Kino forcing MoC into region encoding thus limiting MoC's ability to sell outside their licensed territory, but the legal violation is Kino pursuing sales outside of THEIR licensed territory. You'd have to be a fool to choose the Kino over the MoC given the choice, but UK consumers still HAVE that choice, while Kino has made sure that US consumers don't. I see no reason why a lawsuit wouldn't stand up.

[Der Spieler]

Well I'm cancelling my pre-order right now on the Kino DVD.

Edit: And I just pre-ordered the MoC from Eureka.

[Florinaldo]

This screw-up over Region coding for Metropolis sheds a new perspective on this excerpt from last July in this thread:

Pretend for a minute you run Kino, the small but scrappy independent label that specializes in silent films and the occasional American indie film. You are going to release Metropolis on Blu-ray. You get a phone call from a well-regarded UK distributor who says, "Hey, we are also releasing Metropolis on Blu-ray, in a beautifully-designed package with the same extras you have plus an exclusive commentary and a fat booklet. And if you make your Blu-ray region-free, we are going to make our Blu-ray region free. If you make yours region A, we'll make ours region B." What would you do?

We can thus conclude that scrappy and independent are now synonyms for "entrepreneurs whose word cannot be trusted".

No problem for me, since I have already pre-ordered the MoC and was not going to get the Kino. I prefer original languages intertitles, even though that puts me in a minority of purists. Also, Kino have not included any commentary in their BR edition; the old one (I have the older SD edition) would have done nicely, with or without interpolated additions for the newly-found footage.

The MoC looks to indeed be the undeniably superior edition (unless they made a major and uncharacteristic production blunder with the image), if only for the Kalat-Rosenbaum conversation. I just hope it gets here faster than the T-shirt, which still has not shown up.

[Brianruns10]

What really burns me up, is if Kino went to all the trouble of setting up this agreement with MOC, only to stab them in the back and undercut them by a region free release a week early, they could at least dump a nice title with some decent extras. I mean, what they did is pretty cunning from a marketing point of view, but it fails on principle because their release SUCKS. Altered inter-titles with no option for the original German texts, They also reneged on a deal with the Alloy Orchestra to include their alternate score along with the Huppertz original. They included NONE of the special features of the original, and did not even include a commentary track. Surely they could've licenced MOC's commentary (though the fact they didn't make sense considering it seems the planned to stab them in the back).

I'm DEFINITELY not buying this release, because of what Kino did to MOC, but moreover, because they're releasing a shoddy product. Metropolis deserves far better. It needs a "Mr Arkadin" or "Touch of Evil" type release that covers the various versions of the film. And considering the wealth of production materials availble, and the massive impact of Metropolis on cinema, the sky could be the limit in terms of special features. I'd gladly pay good money for a three or four disc blu-ray release. Instead, Kino is going for the cheap, holiday cash-in, and I won't be a part of it.

[MichaelB]

The MoC looks to indeed be the undeniably superior edition (unless they made a major and uncharacteristic production blunder with the image), if only for the Kalat-Rosenbaum conversation.

I'm very happy to confirm that they did not screw up the image (the familiar material looks astounding, and even the Argentinian footage is surprisingly watchable), and the Kalat-Rosenbaum conversation is exactly what I hoped it would be.

[McCrutchy]

As I said on the Blu-ray forum, this is deplorable behavior and I certainly will not be purchasing the Kino BD. Now consumers in Regions A and C will have to watch the film with English text and forced English subtitles, and without what I'm sure will be an engrossing scholarly commentary. Quite a rip-off from them for what is supposed to be a flagship Blu-ray release.

[RobertB]

I don't believe Kino has region locked any Blu-Ray so far. And I didn't like the news that they insisted Metropolis should be. That was hypocracy from the start. I work in the book business, and my opinion is that all region licensing that is strictly enforced is a problem. You shouldn't try to stop customers from buying a legitimiate product. Hopefully this will be a big enough seller for MoC that they can do a new region-free pressing soon, giving the US customers a bigger choice.

[matrixschmatrix]

Of course, if they do, it will suck for those of us that pre-ordered. Doubly so, since it will probably get much cheaper, too.

Ah, well, I don't begrudge MoC my money.

[fiddlesticks]

The problem with the lawsuit approach is that of damages. The breach of contract is that Kino released without region coding, so the damages would be calculated in the absence of that breach. That is, how worse off is MoC (or, in the alternative, how better off is Kino) because Kino's release is region-free? As many have noted in this thread and the Kino thread, "who in Europe would import the Kino anyway when the MoC is demonstrably superior?" And besides, the total market is so minimal that, even if MoC could demonstrate that this breach resulted in Kino selling their product to a substantial percentage of MoC's potential market, it still would not add up to a whole lot in terms of lost profit--certainly not enough to offset the cost of the suit itself, and potentially not even enough to overtop a threshold of materiality demanded in such a suit.

As MichaelB has patiently tried to point out, the breach is NOT that MoC released their product with a Region B coding. That act was MoC adhering to the terms of the contract, to (as it turns out) its own detriment. THAT is where MoC is damaged, but legally speaking these damages were not Kino's responsibility.

MoC's best recourse, it seems to me, is to declare the contract null and void, allowing them to remove region-coding from any re-pressings (although that is probably small comfort), and then refuse to enter into any such agreements in the future, which could be quite beneficial for any future blockbuster release that may come along.

[Peacock]

Really appalled by this situation.
I commented on Kino's facebook page last night asking something like 'How come you asked MoC to region code their release of Metropolis while yours is region free?'
But checking for a reply, my comment was deleted! I guess they don't want any bad publicity with such a big release..

[Brianruns10]

Peacock, I just posted this on their FB Page:

"How come you deleted an earlier comment asking about your request that MoC region code their release, while you then went region free?"

How long til they delete that,you suppose?

[Tribe]

The problem with the lawsuit approach is that of damages. The breach of contract is that Kino released without region coding, so the damages would be calculated in the absence of that breach. That is, how worse off is MoC (or, in the alternative, how better off is Kino) because Kino's release is region-free? As many have noted in this thread and the Kino thread, "who in Europe would import the Kino anyway when the MoC is demonstrably superior?" And besides, the total market is so minimal that, even if MoC could demonstrate that this breach resulted in Kino selling their product to a substantial percentage of MoC's potential market, it still would not add up to a whole lot in terms of lost profit--certainly not enough to offset the cost of the suit itself, and potentially not even enough to overtop a threshold of materiality demanded in such a suit.

Exactly.

And even aside from that...I don't remember Nick ever stating there was any agreement with Kino. I could be wrong, but as I remember it Nick said something to the effect that they had something in writing that Kino's release was going to be Region locked. Now, Kino may have made that written representation, but that doesn't necessarily turn it into an agreement, much less an enforceable one.

[arsonfilms]

But it DOES give license for anyone concerned about Kino's ridiculousness to take to their facebook and twitter pages asking for an explanation. Perhaps if nothing else, an outcry of condemnation might give Kino pause before they screw over a fellow licensee so royally.

[swo17]

Reading between the lines of Nick's posts (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong), I understand that MoC would have preferred to release the film region-free, but Kino approached them with the line "you release yours Region B and we'll release ours Region A." This is supposedly what Nick has in writing. If this is true, and Kino intentionally reneged on the agreement, then I can only assume that they initially approached MoC with no intention to honor the agreement, but with the malicious intent to block MoC out of the U.S. market. This is just ugly.

[aox]

This all runs so counter to all of my libertarian friends' rhetoric about Free Market Laissez-faire Capitalism and self-regulation. I don't know what to believe now.

[Brianruns10]

You should check Kino's FB page. It's getting bombed with questions, or people saying they've cancelled their pre-orders and are boycotting any future releases. These guys have opened a real can of worms...

[Tribe]

If this is true, and Kino intentionally reneged on the agreement, then I can only assume that they initially approached MoC with no intention to honor the agreement, but with the malicious intent to block MoC out of the U.S. market. This is just ugly.

If they in fact did that, show me where to sign up for the boycott. I just don't think Kino has ever been smart enough to be savvy about something like that. But, who knows...maybe their new association with Lorber gives a predatory side to their usual neglectful attitude.

[WorstFella]

You should check Kino's FB page. It's getting bombed with questions, or people saying they've cancelled their pre-orders and are boycotting any future releases. These guys have opened a real can of worms...

They've just changed their facebook page's display picture to Sherlock Jr. In light of the sudden burst of negative comments, perhaps the beginnings of damage control?