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Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:05 am
by rapta
Anyone else see that there's going to be a fourth anniversary box set? So far it only mentions one name: Kieslowski. Could it be a 4-disc Kieslowki box set? That would be unprecedented.
A fair summation, I reckon. Plenty of people flipping out over this one in particular, but if this is the worst of the bunch I'm actually quite confident in getting the bunch (although not right away, admittedly). If I find myself distraught after watching it, I'll finally buy a Region Free player and import the eventual Criterion disc (though may have to visiting a loan shark).
Considering I couldn't even find these on DVD for a sensible price over the last decade, I'm happy to even get one let alone all seven!
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:28 pm
by j99
rapta wrote:
A fair summation, I reckon. Plenty of people flipping out over this one in particular, but if this is the worst of the bunch I'm actually quite confident in getting the bunch (although not right away, admittedly). If I find myself distraught after watching it, I'll finally buy a Region Free player and import the eventual Criterion disc (though may have to visiting a loan shark).
Considering I couldn't even find these on DVD for a sensible price over the last decade, I'm happy to even get one let alone all seven!
I just watched it, and I'm distraught! Easily the worst transfer of the AE BDs so far, and considering there's a better HD transfer elsewhere, this one is very disappointing. On the plus side, it remains a great film.
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:06 am
by MichaelB
j99 wrote:I just watched it, and I'm distraught! Easily the worst transfer of the AE BDs so far, and considering there's a better HD transfer elsewhere, this one is very disappointing. On the plus side, it remains a great film.
It is indeed a pretty lacklustre transfer and indeed source print (although superior to the now ancient DVD), but I thought it might be worth mentioning that there's a small saving grace in that it does appear to have the correct soundtrack - i.e. not the revisionist version supervised by composer Eduard Artemyev whose primary function seemed to be to find an excuse to include more of his music.
So it'll do for now, and at least it didn't cost me very much (less than £9).
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:30 pm
by rapta
According to Mosfilm, the five Russian Tarkovsky titles have been licensed to Criterion for "US, UK and AU". Don't doubt that they have it for US, but how can they release these separately from AE unless the films are public domain? It occasionally happens, but very rarely. Are Russian rights different?
The mere mention of Criterion Australia also sounds dubious, unless Criterion do plan to expand there too and just haven't announced it yet...
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:31 pm
by Moshrom
rapta wrote:Don't doubt that they have it for US, but how can they release these separately from AE unless the films are public domain? It occasionally happens, but very rarely. Are Russian rights different?
As I understand it,
masters, not
films, are what get licensed to distributors. A master prepared from a newer restoration might go to one distributor while an older master might be licensed to another. It's happened many times before - the BFI couldn't license the new Lobster Films
Man with a Movie Camera restoration, nor could they (or anyone else) license the superior Spanish restoration of
Un chien andalou for blu-ray a few years ago.
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:08 pm
by MichaelB
That's not actually true - in the vast majority of cases you license the film first and foremost. Most of the time that contract will also include delivery of a master, but it's not unknown for the master to be licensed separately - for instance, Arrow has licensed more than one Criterion restoration (as part of a separate agreement with Criterion), and indeed vice versa (in the case of Time Bandits). But unless they had the underlying territorial rights to the film tied up as well, they'd be taking an expensive and pretty pointless gamble.
Things get trickier if the film's copyright status is in a grey area - which applies to a great many films produced by the old Soviet Union, pre-1945 Germany and elsewhere. The Man with a Movie Camera is genuinely in the public domain, so anybody can put out their own release - and of course this is why the BFI and Eureka versions were sourced from different masters, since Eureka had the exclusive UK rights to the Lobster restoration. As for more recent Soviet titles like the Tarkovsky films, I don't know the precise contractual ins and outs, but they may be in a very similar situation, in which case Criterion would be able to put out their own rival versions perfectly legally.
This is one of the reasons why handling films from former Communist countries can be such a royal pain - not least because different organisations sometimes lay claim to the same title. I'd better not name the titles and labels concerned, but there was a rather amusing situation a few years ago whereby one UK label was offered a highly sought-after title by a sales agent that they regularly dealt with. They were very keen, but slightly concerned that the title was already in print in the UK on another label. Don't worry, said the sales agent, they 100% definitely don't have the rights, and can't touch you legally. But the first label was still unsure, because assurances like that sometimes aren't worth the paper they're written on (or the email they're transmitted in) - but in the end they went ahead and had a gratifying success with the film in question.
A few months later, entirely coincidentally, I chatted to someone from the other label, and discovered that as soon as they heard that the first label had acquired this title, their immediate reaction was to immediately take their edition OOP, because they knew full well that they'd lost the rights ages ago and that even though the film was from a country notorious for complicated copyright tangles they'd never be able to successfully claim ownership. In other words, both labels were afraid that they might be sued by the other - which of course was wildly unlikely as neither of them could afford to go to court.
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:50 pm
by rapta
Thanks for clarifying, Michael. That was pretty much my understanding of rights already, but it's always helpful to get a fuller picture. I had an inkling these Tarkovsky titles might be accessed by Criterion as well as Artificial Eye (though from different sources) ever since Criterion posted a listing for Ivan's Childhood on Amazon UK as one of their first announcements. It seems to have been pulled now, but it could be because they're either planning a box set instead or want to release all five in a certain order - or it could be just like your story, and they're checking the legalities before they make their move (or just to let AE release all of theirs first).
Of course it would be wonderful for us in the UK to be able to purchase both the AE and Criterion discs in the same territory - both labels certainly having their benefits extras-wise, and in the case of AE, not only the first five but Nostalgia and The Sacrifice as well (and their Ivan's Childhood and Solaris releases seem to come from the same source as the current Criterion editions).
It's a little strange that AE apparently couldn't get the Mosfilm masters. I wonder if Criterion beat them to it, or they were just priced out of them? If Criterion were ready to release Ivan's Childhood here, it would indicate they were raring to go and therefore had at least the rights to that one. I have a feeling AE maybe consulted every source for the Tarkovsky titles, and when turned down by Mosfilm they looked elsewhere.
As for your story, I guess we'll just have to wonder which titles you meant. I have a couple of theories, although with each I had just assumed one company's rights had expired and another had acquired them, and that is exactly how it would appear to collectors like myself!
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:52 am
by MichaelB
My experience with Russian rightsholders generally involves demands for unrealistically high fees and my reluctant decision to abandon the project - in fact, besides Hard to Be a God, I've yet to successfully shepherd a Russian project to completion.
That said, Criterion has deeper pockets than AE.
And it really doesn't matter which title and labels I was referring to - it makes no difference to the substance of the story.
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:04 am
by zedz
swo17 wrote:Well you won't regret owning the film in some form. If nothing else, it's great to have on to make people think you're watching something classy.
And if you follow the lead of the main character in Uzak, you can always flip back to porn when the other party leaves the room.
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:17 am
by Oedipax
Hah. Always loved that scene. Speaking of which, there's a film that's desperately crying out for an HD release somewhere.
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:35 am
by Aunt Peg
rapta wrote:According to Mosfilm, the five Russian Tarkovsky titles have been licensed to Criterion for "US, UK and AU". Don't doubt that they have it for US, but how can they release these separately from AE unless the films are public domain? It occasionally happens, but very rarely. Are Russian rights different?
The mere mention of Criterion Australia also sounds dubious, unless Criterion do plan to expand there too and just haven't announced it yet...
I agree, Criterion Australia - hell we freeze over before that ever happens. People like me from Australia who want Criterion either need to go Region Free or buy the Region B releases from the UK.
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:00 pm
by dwk
MichaelB wrote:
It is indeed a pretty lacklustre transfer and indeed source print (although superior to the now ancient DVD), but I thought it might be worth mentioning that there's a small saving grace in that it does appear to have the correct soundtrack - i.e. not the revisionist version supervised by composer Eduard Artemyev whose primary function seemed to be to find an excuse to include more of his music.
Glenn Kenny tweeted that he has just seen the new Mosfilm restoration of STALKER and that it has the original audio.
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:34 am
by jsteffe
DVD Beaver on
Nostalgia. What's the deal, Artificial Eye?
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:55 am
by fritz78
You certainly couldn't do any worse if you tried. This is by far the worst set of important (and problably even not so important) films of the Blu-ray age. I'm speechless...
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:39 am
by R0lf
Aunt Peg wrote:I agree, Criterion Australia - hell we freeze over before that ever happens. People like me from Australia who want Criterion either need to go Region Free or buy the Region B releases from the UK.
And can you imagine Criterion releases with those enormous rating signs on them!
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:42 am
by jegharfangetmigenmyg
jsteffe wrote:DVD Beaver on
Nostalgia. What's the deal, Artificial Eye?
Wow, just wow, that's horrible! I have the Kino release, and it's one of their charming (whichever way you want to define it) hands off-releases with no digital manipulation at all, it seems. One can actually hear the clicks and pops on the soundtrack which I found a bit odd, I must admit...it's something else when they're releasing old silent movies. So I was eagerly waiting for the AE release as this is probably one of my favorite of Tarkovsky's along with
The Sacrifce, but this is just awful. DNR'ed and boosted out of the water!
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:51 am
by FrauBlucher
jsteffe wrote:DVD Beaver on
Nostalgia. What's the deal, Artificial Eye?
This is a real stinker. Too bad.
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:14 pm
by rapta
Maybe they just gave up after all the nitpicking of the first few?
I'll probably end up getting it if it's sub-£8 though, unless those Criterion UK rumours are true. The better transfers are obviously a priority though...
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:56 pm
by Drucker
This release bares closer resemblance to Kino's poor Sacrifice release. I wonder if this restoration and Sacrifice were both botched, but Kino decided to release an older/different master for their BD of Nostalgia, hence why it doesn't look so bad. Recall that they included two versions of White Zombie after the poor restoration that received.
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:30 pm
by swo17
The cap where they're passing under an archway on bike/foot looks like all the details have been scrubbed à la Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:43 pm
by jsteffe
Drucker wrote:This release bares closer resemblance to Kino's poor Sacrifice release. I wonder if this restoration and Sacrifice were both botched, but Kino decided to release an older/different master for their BD of Nostalgia, hence why it doesn't look so bad. Recall that they included two versions of White Zombie after the poor restoration that received.
Kino's Blu-ray of
The Sacrifice may not be perfect--among other things, I feel that it is a bit overly filtered and displays some smearing/ghosting in darker sequences as a result--but it looks significantly better than this new AE Blu-ray of
Nostalgia. At least Kino created a new master for
The Sacrifice based on the best materials they could obtain, and they made an honest effort to reflect the color timing of an actual release print. It was also released five years ago, and Kino has successfully taken on much larger and more difficult in-house projects since then.
Based on the screen caps, the new AE
Nostalgia Blu-ray has serious problems with contrast, is filtered to death, and is rife with digital noise. I have a hard time imagining that it will look any better in motion.
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:10 pm
by EddieLarkin
There at least two transfers of The Sacrifice out there,
with the one used by Kino falling far short of the other, so I imagine that's what AE will be using.
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:14 pm
by jsteffe
Thanks for reminding me about the Japanese Blu-ray, I agree looks better--but it lacks English subtitles.
In the Kino thread, Berzeli noted that the Swedish Film Institute performed a digital restoration a few years back. (After the Kino Blu-ray came out.) Let's hope that Artificial Eye is using this restoration since it supposedly looked good.
But because the color gradations are so subtle in this film, I suspect it will always be a challenge to recreate authentically using digital tools.
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:24 pm
by tenia
Tarkovsky's The Sacrifice received in June 110 000€ by the French CNC for Argos to restore it.
http://www.cnc.fr/web/fr/9-juin-20163" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Artificial Eye / Curzon Film World
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:51 pm
by FrauBlucher
Beaver...SacrificeTooze wrote:The Sacrifice could be from The Swedish Film Institute source(?!) although does not resemble that 2004 DVD's color scheme - nor the Kino Blu-ray.